Phillies Nation

Hasn’t Feliz already made it known that he’s upset enough not to entertain any offers to come back? I think one of the beat writers reported that. And you know as well as I do that Manuel doesn’t think Rollins should be batting leadoff. It’s just not the sort of thing he can really say publicly.

Since Beltre is represented by Boros, he might be priced too high. Am I crazy to think the Phils could afford Mike Lowell (since it has been said that the Red Sox would pay half his salary) AND Juan Uribe, who could get considerable playing time since Lowell will play about 125 games at third? Rollins and Utley could get some time off with Uribe substituting occasionally. Plus Utley could occasionally play first, giving Howard a day off with Uribe playing second. More versatility, better bench. Or am I nuts?

@kreiderr… Seriously put Werth at #7? The dude put up 36 HR, 99 RBI, and 20 SB. That’s not the guy you hit seventh.
That said, and I have been given flack here for saying this here before, but I think Beltre is the best option for third for his defense alone. Check out the free agent pitchers with the best ground-ball ratios and you will see a guy named Joel Piniero. He’s coming off a great season, so his price would be a tad inflated compared to his norm, but he’s worth a look. Imagine a ground ball pitcher with a potential 3B gold glover in Beltre, the defending SS gold glover in J-Roll, the true 2B gold-glover in Chase Utley, and, well, let’s say an improving Ryan Howard. Pretty scary.

The Red Sox have indicated that they’d pick up half of Lowell’s salary, but the article I read said his contract was for sixteen million, not twelve. There’s not a GM in his right mind that would pay eight million for 120 games (if they’re lucky) from a man who looks like he’s already died. The Sox would have to cough up at least three quarters of his salary before anyone will relieve them of Lowell.

Mike Lowell is not an option for this team. Hes a stiff out there and hes injured all the time. Id be ok with Polanco or DeRosa if it means spending more money on better Starting and Relief Pitching.

Lowell may be well over the hill and he will be 36 at the start of the 2010 season. He is a former gold glover and hit .290 with 17 homers last year. When he plays he is productive. I agree that he may cost too much , but he “has been” one of the game’s better third basemen both with a glove and bat. The question is: Is he a “has-been?” Also, I would want to get Juan Uribe to complement Lowell and act as the major infield utility player. He made only $1 million last year and is a free agent with pop in the bat and versatility in the field.

Pat, exactly what you said:

“If we are tossing Figgins to the side, Beltre’s name, to me, stands out more than Placido Polanco (not a third baseman by trade), Mark Derosa (super-utility man, but can he play 3B everyday?), or Miguel Tejada (aging, not a 3B, but would switch positions here).”

That’s the big issue here. All of those guys (except Beltre) have giant question marks hanging over their heads. They are not “regular” third basemen and it’s scary to think what could happen (defensively) with any of them (Polanco, Tejada, DeRosa) playing the hot corner.

Ed, that is not because of injuries though. He just was a super utility guy his whole career. Now, he is going to get his starting job.

Just thought I’d take a belated moment to say that, for Thanksgiving this year, I was grateful for rhe Phillies sucking goat ass in the World Series this year.

pat i generally agree with your beltre decision and rationale.

this is kinda how i see it…

we can all probably see why beltre/figgins lead the pack of available FA 3rd basemen. these are the two guys with the greatest chance to play more regularly during the course of the season. both of these guys are young, will land multiyear contracts, and will be everyday players at 3rd base…the same cannot necessarily be said for the older derosa, polanco, tejada. if one of these guys were brought in to play third, then there would be another platoon player at 3rd who would get alot of playing time. i am not really a fan of the ’3rd base by committee’ strategy. get one of beltre/figgins to be your guy, 140-150 games per season, for the next couple years.

although i think figgins is an all around better player right now, i would be hesitant to get him into a longterm deal. has one overarching strength–speed. this is great for now, and it has led to his success in high obp, but in 2 years when he is 34 his speed will be severely decreased. he will be an average player, 2 years into a 4-5 year deal makin 10mil per season. i dont really want that on my team.

on the other hand, a guy like beltre can still be pounding in rbi’s for the next 3 years. even if beltre produces same numbers he did in seattle he would still be an offensive upgrade over feliz. his power attributes are more worthy of a multiyear investment than are figgins’ speed skills

If he comes to the Phillies he will win the GG. Afterall, Zimmerman and Wright are no match for Beltre defensively. Although, LaRoche is extremely underrated along with Kuzmanoff.

Brooks,

I would be happy if that happened. Utley has been quoted many times saying that they push each other to become better players. They are best friends and Chase has been wanting to reunite with his best man since they got out of college. I would, however, not be suprised if this happens by the Dec. 5th. Heck, for the right amount, he’s def. worth a shot.

They said they want an as good or better defensive player to replace Feliz. So that disqualifies Tejada and Atkins, who has TERRIBLE defense. Youre essentially down to Beltre, DeRosa, Polanco.

Based on statements made by Charlie Manuel about the Phil’s lineup not always producing, I would think they are looking for a different type of hitter than Feliz. If Beltre were a better situational hitter, I think there’d be no question that he’d be the right fit. But he isn’t, and that is why management is also looking at candidates like Polanco. It’s really impossible to know what management will consider an upgrade at third. It’s hard to improve on Feliz’s defense, and that might not be the ultimate goal. The Phils don’t have a lot of ground ball pitchers, anyway, and with a Gold Glove SS, they may be okay with just adequate defense at third. Offense would seem to be the issue, but that raises the question of “what kind of offense?”

Management may be willing to settle for the kind of lineup they already have. They might not. The final determination here may be based on money and contract length. With the big Moyer question, the Phils need at least one more reliable starter and more bullpen arms. Due to the costs there, they might have to sign someone at third none of us are even considering.

Fielding Bible – schmeilding bible …. Pedro Feliz can play the sh!t out of thirdbase!!!

He lost some range.. but he’s got sure-hands, and one of the most accurate arms I’ve ever seen from 3b .

BUT.. I would gladly welcome Beltre or Tejada too

The throw from deep in the hole at SS is actually the longest in the infield. Third is a longer throw than second, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be made by a second baseman. Polanco has played third, so I don’t think that’s as much an issue as Tejada’s age. Tejada is being considered for third only because he’s lost range at short. Given his age and the fact he’s never really played third, his defense is far more untested than Polanco’s.

From a power point of view Tejada might be an offensive upgrade, but again he may be too similar in style to what the Phils had in Feliz, but with questionable defensive skills. He’s also not going to be cheap.

I’m curious about that “Fielding Bible”. Wouldn’t it have to be rather subjective in its interpretation of fielding abilities?

As I’ve said before….my only real concern with Tejada is his “attitude”…..he’s been known as somewhat of a complainer when things don’t go his way…..but that was primarily in Baltimore….the O’s signed him to a nice contract…with the premise being that he was the cornerstone of a winning rebuilding effort…didn’t exactly work out that way..

Maybe a change to a WINNING team and culture will take care of all that…

Here is my problem with the FIELDING BIBLE vs. what Pat is calling “BASICALLY AVERAGE”

The Fielding Bible ranks all 3b.. 1: Ryan Zimmerman, 2: Adrain Beltre, 3: Chone Figgins, 4: Evan Longoria, 5: Scott Rolen, 6: Brandon Inge, 7: PEDRO FELIZ, 8: Jack Hannahan??, 9: Joe Crede

http://www.fieldingbible.com/

So if you’re the 7th best in baseball.. I would hardly call that “AVERAGE”

…
Guys that had lower Fielding Percentage from that same list above:

Ryan Zimmerman, Brandon Inge, Adrian Beltre

I understand that Feliz is the rangiest, web-game, superstar to ever play the Hot Corner … and he’s not going to get any better defensively as he ages .. but all these different +/- , Range Factor, etc.. you can manipulate lists any way you want using statistics .. PEDRO FELIZ is one of the best 3b in baseball, regardless of what random stats people use to say otherwise

Hey Dylan…

It drives me nuts when “Phillies Fans” can’t spell their players names correctly (ie Cole Hammel or Jason Worth)

That would be players’ and it would be more appropriate to use e.g. in this case meaning “for example” rather than ie, which should be i.e. if you were educated at all. You must be a very popular teacher. I can tell that grammar is your specialty. By the way, correcting spelling on a blog is rude. We’re talking about baseball not writing a thesis. I also resent you putting “Phillies Fans” in quotes. So, in order to be a Phillies fan you have to be able to spell all their names correctly? That makes a “true” fan? Talk about delusions of grandeur. I bow to your superiority oh master speller…you’re right my opinion means nothing. You’re so much smater than the rest of us (e.g. anyone else who has a grammatical error on this sight) Merry Christmas!

for what its worth, I would imagine that playing 3b must be easier in the AL … no bunt attempts for hits, no sac bunts, and Defensive-wheel plays, etc..

AL, you basically play straight up, except for double-play or guarding the line.

whatever happened to Abraham Nunez ???