Phillies Nation

I did my own calculations after I heard this and think he is telling the truth. I’d love to know how much TV and merchandising revenue they receive. People also tend to forget that they financed half of the stadium. That alone must be $20 million in payments per year so I am sure they are cash flow negative.

Yes, the value of the team may be $500 million but you can’t do anything with that unless you sell the team. I had Enron stock and had imaginary money a few years ago.

didn’t the last post on this very blog instruct us to forget about the Lee deal?

(We can all ignore the spanky fool. I don’t even bother reading – which saves myself the headache of deciphering the schizophrenic drivel.)

Anyways, in response to David Montgomery’s claim that the Phillies are “already in the red” – that’s a bunch of bull. They were projected to earn $19M in 2009, according to Forbes. Do you know how easy it is accrue a few million in expenses here and a few million there to make it seem like you’re losing money in the current fiscal period? I would bet their half billion dollars that their free cash flows are quite healthy indeed.

If I were an investor in the franchise, my main chief concern would be whether the management’s decision making is creating value or destroying value for the franchise. In my opinion, their short-sightedness will only do the latter.

haha, thanks Corey, but I didn’t lose much. I ain’t rich enough enough to lose too much.

“Four average tickets, two small beers, four small sodas, four hot dogs, parking for one car, two game programs, and two adult-sized caps” cost a hell of a lot more than $50. Two caps alone cost more than that. I’m not understanding this “fan cost index”. (I’ve never seen these “small beers” or “small sodas” either).

That is wierd. I read the mlb.com article. He says on the day his agent counter-offered the Phillies he got traded. I love the trade, but it definitely was….rather abrupt. I think Amaro really just was obsessed with Doc and felt he was the man. He staked his whole legacy on it basically. This is probably the biggest trade he may ever make in all his years as a GM. Hell be a GM for many many years I think too. There also may be a disconnect with Lee and his agent, or his agent and the Phillies, or something along those lines. The two sides of the story dont add up at all…

It is expensive enough down there already, more payroll means BIGGER ticket and food hikes. They can win with this payroll, um, because they won with less before and they are a better team now. Relax. Enjoy the ride.

Phillies were not going to risk an extension with Halladay by giving Lee an extension first and they were not going to pay Lee for a 5 yr contract while tring to get Doc to accept a shorter one. Doc is worth more and Lee wanted too much he is just trying to down play the talk about how he wants C.C. money so come end of next season teams will be interested and he can start a bidding war

Oh man… that is horrible. I wanted Cliff to stay… can’t believe we traded him!

any way u cut it – halladay trade made good sense – give it a A – on the one hand gave up drabek and taylor – on the other hand tied doc up for 4/5 years – however lee trade made almost no sense – lightening struck and we had the opportunity to have 2 of the top 10 pitchers right now in baseball – plus hamels who 2 years ago we were happy was our ace plus this offense – we may have even been favored over the yanks to win it all!! – and now as the dust settles it looks like lee wanted to stay! – this trade on its own should be enough to run amaro out of town – think about if he had done this and there was no halliday trade to distract us with – we’d be ready to send him to bellevue!! – everything else is bs!! – nothing makes sense but that amaro got caught with gillick somewhere in the background and felt obliged to go thru with this even though he no longer needed seattle to do the halliday trade!!!! – i cant stand the fact that on top of making this nonsensical trade and passing up an opportunity we’ll never see again in my lifetime i suspect that they are not being truthful with us in explaing it!!

Upon reading David Montgomery’s comment, my first impression was that he was referring to the OWNERS being in the red in their OTHER business ventures. We have to remember that the ownership group is not the same as the mangement personnel. Does everybody actually think that the ownership group’s ONLY business interest is the Phillies? Wake up people!!! The ownership group hires the management group to run the team, which in turn frees the owners’ time to pursue other business opportunities, and I think it’s these OTHER business opportunities that are losing money to which David Montgomery was referring. Let me tell you, if the current operations of the team was showing red ink with a sellout nearly every night, its value wouldn’t be increasing. Think about it. Would you buy a business that losing money every year? I wouldn’t. The country is trying to recover from a recession. The team is probably the owners’ only profitable venture going right now. That’s why its value as a franchise is increasing.

Yeah, thats right I kind of get the impression Lee’s agent is a d-bag. Beacuse what was the counter offer?

The bottom line was his agent REPEATEDLY said 5 years, nothing less. The phillies dont do that. Maybe Lee THOUGHT his agent was trying to negotiate a 3 year deal in good faith, but we have not heard that, and its possible his agents posturing may have forced the Phillies’ hand. If so, Lee should fire his agent.

If he wanted to stay here, and his agent’s demands were AGAINST his wishes to try and work something out here….the Phillies are NOT at fault for protecting themselves and trading him, it is Lee agent who is at fault.

People forget that they have to pay bills on their stadium also… water, electric, etc..

for a place that big, Im sure that runs in the hundreds of thousands..

they also need to pay security, and the overtime-details for those games are paid by the Phillies, not by the city..

Who the hell buys “TWO ADULT SIZED CAPS” at a baseball game.. ??

…
The Phillies are making more money then they ever have before.. but they are also spending way more money then they ever have before.

Their freaking payroll is $140 Million dollars!!!

Could they have non-tendered Joe Blanton, paid Cliff Lee that money (plus the extra $2.5 M extra?) .. sure.. but if you are going to lose both at the end of the year, at least this way you get Top Prospects in return for Lee.. and I’m guessing Joe Blanton will be a Type-A Free Agent, which means that you get the two draft picks in return

Lets be happy that we’ve got Halladay.. and Polanco..

our team for 2010 is much better than it was last year, and we’ve got some prospects back to help in the future too… It was a good deal made by Amaro

ENOUGH!

The trades are done. Monday morning quarterbacking about things we really don’t understand is not helping anyone. The Phillies just landed the top RHP in all MLG for 4 years below market value. Things had to be done to make this work. Stop being so greedy about something that was not workable. When you have GM experience and have to deal with a budget speak up. Otherwise, let’s welcome Halladay and look forward to a great 2010.

Do Phillie fans always have to look for the negative in everything?

i’m sorry, if the phillies are in the red, something’s wrong with their business model. i had partial season tickets last year, and aside from the games in april and may, nearly every game i attended (weekend, weekday, whatever) had around 45,000 attendees. how are they not making money? maybe their ticket prices are too low to sustain the kind of roster we need to win. i’ll give them that. and though i don’t want to pay any more for tickets, if they had said they need to raise ticket prices $20 across the boards to keep lee and have halladay, too, i don’t think anyone would have complained.

Last year, when people were bitching about the Yankees $200 M payroll

we all came to the conclusion that it would be much better to have an Above-Average team.. that you can afford to go see multiple times per year

I personally don’t know how people can afford to take their kids to games NOW.. let alone if the prices went up another $10+ per seat

NOSEBLEED seats are , parking is $10-20 depending on which lot, and who the opponent is (Mets games are more expensive.. fireworks games are more expensive, etc..)
Beers are $7 each,
Sodas are like $5 each
a bottled water is $4 …
a soft pretzel is $4
hot dogs are $4

So lets say you take, your wife and two kids to the game.. the real price is:
4 tickets ($26) = $104
Parking ($10) = $1o
2 Beers ($7) = $14
2 Sodas ($5) =$10
4 Hot Dogs ($4) = $16
4 Pretzels ($4) = $16

$170 total… and who only drinks ONE beer? … those bratty little kids will want Cotton candy too ..

Lee will say anything to make himself look good. Who cares at this point. Would I of loved to see the two of them for one season. YES. Its not going to happen so I have to forget about it. The bottom line is we have the BEST pitcher in all of baseball for a long time. He is so good. I dont buy baseball jerseys that often. I have a one Michael Jack, Lefty, and now I just placed my order for Halladay. I cant wait to see this guy pitch. We will still win the NL with him and I think Hamels will come back strong.

$170 for four, so roughly $50 a person. Thats about right. Thats $180 million in revenue, without even mentioning tv money (HUGE) and merchandise (Jerseys aren’t cheap). They are making money, its not even a question. Look at the Red Sox. Their stadium only holds 38K and they make money, and always have a higher payroll than us.

Here is my source (2008 season so it might be a bit higher now): http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2008/03/28/average_ticket_price_list/

Here is the interview with David Montgomery..

http://950espn.com/Audio/tabid/183/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/5356/David-Montgomery-joins-Mike-Missanelli.aspx

It basically gets to the point that, the owners aren’t making money of the day-to-day, or year-to-year operations.. but since they are putting a lot more into the team, and the team is making more money as a business

that their ORGANIZATIONAL VALUE is where they will make their money.. if they were to sell the team, it is worth more right now, than it was 5-10 years ago

This is a business, and this team is the owner’s investment.. I feel like they’ve done a GREAT job at giving us a Quality and Affordable product over the past 5 years.. and with the Lee trade, they gave us a chance to keep it going for the next 5, instead of just the next 1

What business would knowingly and willingly TAKE A LOSS … just because the previous year was a good one??

Wouldn’t you want to keep profits coming in…

People need to start thinking with their heads, not with their hearts.. baseball is a business.. thankfully we have an ownership group that wants to give us a good product. They could VERY EASILY be a middle of the road team in payroll, and performance .. but instead they try to give us a great product

Hey Rube/Monty: Trading one of the top dozen pitchers in the game for pennies on the dollar is not the way to do business in baseball, either.

And for the Kool-Aid drinkers: The problem isn’t that they traded Lee for prospects. It’s that they traded him for interesting but risky prospects that have proven ZERO above class A. Aumont, the centerpiece of the package, just posted an ERA of 12.00 in the AZ Fall League.

These guys are being paid millions and they cry because they are traded. That’s bullshit. I love the sport and I love the Phils, but these guys are pampered. How many could do your job day in and day out for what you get paid. And most are retired, living on easy street, by the time they are 40.

So we should give Lee away because he was cheap to obtain? And expiring contract or not, Lee does have value, because he’s a relative bargain at $9M per year for 2010 (be honest about this — remember that Jamie Moyer will be paid $8M this season). Plus, he brings compensatory draft picks if he walks as a free agent.

Look, adding Halladay is a great move. Trading Lee to replenish the farm and provide salary relief is a creative idea on the Phillies’ part. But they are a championship caliber team. Even the Pirates or Royals would expect big league ready talent, or close to it, for an asset like Lee.

What else do you want? I mean really…

The lineup is BETTER
The rotation is SLIGHTLY BETTER
The bench is MUCH BETTER
The bullpen will be addressed and will likely be BETTER too…!

The Phillies have been VERY aggressive this offseason, one of the most aggressive teams in all of baseball. They have gone out and improved the team in every phase except the bullpen which Im sure they will address. I guess thats just not good enough…