Comments on: Odds and Ends: Let it Snow

By: John

John — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 10:43:47 +0000

mike is right, trading early and low on Lee was retarded management.

By: psujoe

psujoe — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 07:17:26 +0000

I know a lot of people liked Brandon Morrow and wanted him in the Lee deal. Well, looks like he’s on his way to Toronto. For League and a prospect. We’ll see who it is.

By: psujoe

psujoe — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 00:29:04 +0000

Right on Manny. Exchange one of Morrow or Triunfel for Ramirez and the package looks better.

The second John. if Vic was traded Werth would play center. I was just throwing that out there.

Here’s a thought. Figgins+Lee-(Blanton and Victorino) is 3 million less expensive than Polanco-Lee+(Blanton and Victorino).

Ok, I’ll move on now.

Sign Ducky and a reliever.

By: mikemike

mikemike — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 23:25:35 +0000

Hey george you idiot. WHAT CANT YOU FOLLOW. THREE OR FOUR DRAFT CHOICES I MENTION WE WOULDNT SPEND A LITTLE MORE FOR. JOE NATHAN, SAUNDERS OF THE ANGELS. DREW. WORKMAN, GIBSON ALL TOP PITCHING TALENTS. DO Y UNDERSTAND THAT THEY WOULDNT SPEND A LITTLE MORE TO SIGN THEM. 2. LEE BEING TRADED ISNT THE BIGGEST THING THAT BUGS ME ITS THE RETURN AND HOW FAST. WITH THE ANGELS IN A BIND AND LEE OUTTHERE WE COULD HAVE GOT MORE UNDERSTAND THAT GEORGE. AND IF WE GRANT THEM A CHANCE TO EXTEND HIM EVEN MORE, GOT THAT? . SALARY DUMP BY OWNERS WHO HAD THE BALLS TO SAY THEY LOST MONEY THE LAST YEAR. DO Y GET THAT GEORGE . LAST YEAR SPEND THE LOWEST AMOUNT IN THE DRAFT. AND ONLY A LITTLE UNDER HALF A MILLION IN INTERNATIONAL MARKET. GOT THAT GEORGE. LISTEN TO MONTGOMERY WE JUST WANT TO BE IN THE FINAL 8 AND HOPE TO GET HOT, SOUND FAMILIAR JEFF LAURIE . ANYONE WHO COMES ON HERE AND SAIDS ITS WASNT A SALARY DUMP IS NUTS. A PANIC MOVE . THEY DIDNT WANT TO KEEP LEE FOR FEAR THEY WOULD HAVE TO ONE PAY HIM OR PAY THE DRAFT CHOICES WE GET FOR HIM CHEAP BASTAR OWNERS A CHANCE TO BE GREAT AND THEY LET 9 MILLION GET IN THE WAY. AND RAISE TICKET PRICES. DO Y UNDERSTAND THAT GEORGE.

By: Chuck

Chuck — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 21:16:34 +0000

As I have said COUNTLESS times already…..let’s just wait and see what these three prospects do….before we start judging the deal….if even ONE of the three turns into something good…..then it’s a success…

So what if these are “decent prospects”…I’d rather have three “decent prospects”…..all starting the year at AA Reading……instead of two draft picks.

Just my opinion.

By: joedad

joedad — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 21:13:50 +0000

j reed, you have a solid understanding of baseball but calling the Lee trade a result of blue blood mentality is like calling the Eagles thriftiness on cheap jewish ownership, it is just not true. A cheap team would not spend $140 million on player payroll, a modest increase year on year. Cheap owners wouldn’t sign off on $20 million per year on Halladay for 3+ years nor would they privately finance half of the building costs of Citizens Bank Park. Like it or not, they have a budget like all companies do and they need to operate within the budget. They treated Lee as an asset and traded him away as an investment for the future. In their eyes, they made a business decision that the return for Lee was better than sitting and waiting for a better deal or another year with Lee.

By: Manny

Manny — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 21:07:06 +0000

No, second John. We didn’t get their top prospects —not even from a team with a subpar farm system like the Mariners. They didn’t trade Brandon Morrow, Michael Saunders, or Carlos Truinfel. We got decent prospects from the Ms… that’s about it.

By: The second John

The second John — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:37:50 +0000

OK. Please get the Lee+Halladay rotation talk out of your mind. There was no way our farm could handle losing prospects to halladay, and still keep Lee. If that happened they would’ve totally guttered their farm system

As far as the prospects the Phillsgot back for Lee, I think they are the top 3 prospects in the mariners system. Besides Gillick, and Looper knows these prospects best anyway since they scouted them etc.

Phillies upgraded their team significantly because we traded away one year of Cliff Lee for 4, or 5 years of Roy. Besides, if they got both Lee, and Roy in the same rotation, they would have no money to fix their main weakness last year, the bullpen.

By: The second John

The second John — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:36:40 +0000

OK. Please get the Lee+Halladay rotation talk out of your mind. There was no way our farm could handle losing prospects to halladay, and still keep Lee. If that happened we would’ve totally guttered our farm system

As far as the prospects we got back for Lee, I think they are the top 3 prospects in the mariners system. Besides Gillick, and Looper knows these prospects best anyway since they scouted them etc.

We upgraded our team significantly because we traded away one year of Cliff Lee for 4, or 5 years of Roy. Besides, if we got both Lee, and Roy in the same rotation, we would have no money to fix our main weakness last year, the bullpen.

By: j reed

j reed — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:28:01 +0000

Really a dead horse….The Halladay years will be great but after expect more of the same. The point isn’t the the trade, it’s what it represents: the Phillies not growing into a business but being treated as an investment. Not bitching about this is why we have 10,000 losses. It has historically been one of the worst fiancially run teams relative to its market. What is impressive is how they developed the team under such apathetic ownership. This current team could be the starting point to develop into the Red Sox or the Yankees….it’s Philadelphia not Lincoln, Nebraska. Oh, I forgot we’re Philadelphians…we’re not worthy. Stop settling for….1 year with Lee and Halladay isn’t much to ask of these a*****e owners. We suffered enough. And cut just be grateful crap…if you felt all hunky-dory about it, you wouldn’t be posting.

By: bfo_33

bfo_33 — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:14:44 +0000

Georgie, agreed. That would have been enough in 2006, but now expectations are ramped up (rightfully so). The gamble is that Cole is back to King Cole, not Cole Slaw. 1 solid start by Hamels in game 3 last year would have turned the whole series around, and he’d be getting another ring.

By: joedad

joedad — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:14:37 +0000

“There are ALOT of questions(again) with the starting rotation” – No way. Slots 1 through 4 are filled nicely if Hamels returns to form. Remember the shambles they threw out there at the beginning of last year? Myers, Blanton, Moyer, Lee were rocked at the beginning of the year. Hamels was hurt and was hit when he returned. Yet somehow they made it to the WS rather easily. Now there is stability at the top, a refreshed Hamels, Blanton on a contact year and Happ. #5 could be Moyer/Park/Other and they still have solid starting pitching.

By: Chuck

Chuck — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:07:36 +0000

I’m tired of it too, George….I wish people would just be grateful for where we are compared to 6 weeks ago when the WS ended…

UPGRADES at 5 different positions…..ace pitcher, backup catcher, pinch hitter/OF, third baseman, utility infielder…with the rest of the core group returning..

Forget Cliff Lee…..HE’S GONE…..get over it and let’s MOVE ON…

By: George

George — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:55:48 +0000

Can we just quit bitching about the Lee/Halladay trades? It’s a dead horse, people.

And mikemike, learn to use real English.

By: Georgie

Georgie — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:47:32 +0000

bfo-if we end up with “an ace and a bunch of .500 pitchers”, we MAY get to the playoffs but I seriously doubt we get to the WS, and FOR SURE we don’t win it.

By: j reed

j reed — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:43:20 +0000

Can’t you all smell the blue blood from here. The Lee stituation absolutely smacks of blue blood intervention. Why would you low ball your GM at the table with budget nonsense (see the Hagen’s Dec. 9 article “The Phillies means business on their budget.”) when this team could, if the ownership was treating this like a business and not an investment, take advantage of the big market we play in. By not at the very least, absorbing the cost of Lee for one year, the ownership have shown there true intentions. The Phillies are an investment and not a business. Loss on an investment is loss, loss in a business is at time part of growth. I am tired of hearing the sports media and others on various Phillies blogs as characterizing some of us as not understanding that it’s “a business”. Really because any one who understands business would realize that the increase in payroll is what they are supposed to do and it is relative to your growth. They have done nothing special. Now they could have gutted the team like the Marlins but these blue blood aren’t that dumb. You can get any way with that in a fledgling market like Florida but not in one of the oldest cities in the god damn country with one of the oldest teams in mlb. That would bring too much publicity and that is the last thing shrewd blue bloods want. Now we are not at the point of being able to take on Lee and my boy Roy with 3 year deals but certainly 9 million out the owners projected 19 million windfall for 1 year of Lee is nothing for an organization that is ran like a business esp when potential return is so great. Lee, Halladay, Hamels are you kidding me…You Ride the Lightening not mircomanage your books like a bunch of accountants that fart dust….Getting Halladay was the right thing esp. with Hamels progressing into a version of Lee. (check their pitch f/x data) but dumping Lee (mircosoft stock) for 3 magic beans (cold fusion research) demostrates yet again that this organization doesn’t have a business mindset. If they did wouldn’t they have gotten at leat a top tier prospect for Lee esp. when they gave two up for Halladay? Or at least a known commodity like a reliever plus prospects? And if you can’t get that, then hold Lee until the you get something he’s worth…It’s not like he’s Milton Bradley, talent with a high risk price tag. The chance for a record setting season alone should keep any owner from worry. Even injured Lee could fetch those prospects the Marniers gave us. Also consider this: we set our our own ceiling with Hallalady only to devalue Lee by capping ourselves with this budget ultamatum in a no cap system. And mind you they both had 1 year left before free agency. Once teams knew we had unload Lee to meet a budget, then who’d offer us anything for something your essentially throwing in the trash. Even Ralph Wiggum on mescaline isn’t this dumb. And in the process we looked shifty with how we handled Lee who really looked genuinely upset. Not so classy of us…I mean not us or the FO but the ownership who set this all in motion. I saw this last year when 3 weeks before a post season run, we couldn’t get a measly mid-reliever to help out the BP, 8 of which were on the DL. Pretty sad. And the blue bloods get away without even a scratch.

By: Georgie

Georgie — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:43:17 +0000

Can anyone tell me where or when Lee said he wanted CC type $$$? I’m sure you guys aren’t making it up, just curious as to the particulars of that statement, and if anyone from the Phillies asked his agent or him if he’d take less.

We really are banking on Cole being back to ’08 form, which isn’t definite, Happ being what we all think/hope he is, and #5 spot, what? Moyer/Pedro? See where I’m going with this? There are ALOT of questions(again) with the starting rotation, and I would have felt much better going into ST with Halladay AND Lee.

By: Manny

Manny — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:21:37 +0000

Georgie, I definitely agree… hope this doesn’t come back and hunt us.

And please offer Eyre a decent contract!!! Best lefty reliever we’ve had in the past two seasons!

By: Chuck

Chuck — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:07:47 +0000

Yeah….I really don’t buy into how “crushed” Cliff Lee was….for the very reason that was stated….he’s “looking for a “CC Sabathia type contract.”

If he really thought that his current team at the time (the Phillies) wouldn’t take that type of comment into consideration when looking at their total picture…..then he and/or his agent should have thought twice before saying it.

I really don’t feel all that bad for Cliff Lee….he’s a good pitcher that’s probably gonna do very well for himself when his next contract is written….so….I’m sorry if I sound a bit harsh and unfeeling about it….but….

By: Don M

Don M — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:12:27 +0000

Wanting to stay in Philadelphia has nothing to do with the fact that he wanted a monster contract too??

Its basically one or the other..

you can stay in Philadelphia, at a reasonable price…

OR.. you can become a Free Agent and seek a “C.C. Sabathia type contract”

if your agent has previously stated that you want to become one of the highest paid players in all of baseball, you can’t then complain that a team made other plans that didn’t include a contract extension for you …

Cliff Lee was good for us.. but he wants to get paid, as is his right.. I wish him best of luck