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So, What Now?

Posted by Corey Seidman, Thu, December 17, 2009 12:18 AM | Comments: 152
Analysis, News, Opinion, Posts

How does it feel to know that for the next five years, Roy Halladay will be toeing the rubber for the Phillies every fifth day?

Let’s forget about the Cliff Lee trade. Erase it from your mind completely. From this point forward, let’s shift the focus to the splendor that is “Doc” Halladay in red pinstripes.

You deserve to feel good about that. You deserve to embrace the fact that the Phils just acquired a guy who had a 2.97 ERA in 112 innings last year against the Yankees, Red Sox, and Rays, three of the top six offenses in baseball during that time.

In his career, Halladay is 18-6 against the Yankees with a 2.84 ERA and one complete game for every five starts. I wonder how he’ll fare against the Nationals.

For what it’s worth, Halladay is 17-8 with a 3.02 ERA against the National League in his career. I could throw any number at you and you’d love it. This is the kind of pitcher Harry Leroy Halladay is.

But, with the dust settled on this insane three-day stretch, the fact remains that Ruben Amaro still has some tinkering to do. Let’s take a look at who the Phillies have locked up (or have tendered a contract to and will either re-sign or go to arbitration with.)

Lineup

Jimmy Rollins

Shane Victorino

Chase Utley

Ryan Howard

Jayson Werth

Raul Ibanez

Placido Polanco

Carlos Ruiz

Now, Polanco and Victorino could very well switch positions in the order. The switch that would make the most sense (based on last year’s production) would be to lead Victorino off, bat Polanco second, and move Rollins down to the seven-hole. But if Jimmy gets off to a hot start, that obviously wouldn’t make the most sense. We’ll see what happens in April.

Bench

Greg Dobbs: LHB, 3B/1B/LF/RF

Ross Gload: LHB, 1B/LF/RF

Ben Francisco: RHB, LF/CF/RF

Brian Schneider: LHB, C

Juan Castro: RHB, SS/2B/3B/1B/LF/RF

The opening day bench will probably look like this. The Phillies won’t carry more than five bench bats, and the only one who isn’t a shoe-in to make the 25-man roster is Castro. If Wilson Valdez or Cody Ransom vastly outplay Castro in Spring Training, they could make the squad over him. But, given the fact that Castro signed a $750,000 with a team option for a second year while Ransom and Valdez were merely Spring Training invitees, the job is his to lose.

Starting Rotation

Roy Halladay: RHP (feels so cool to be able write that)

Cole Hamels: LHP

Joe Blanton: RHP

J.A. Happ: LHP

Jamie Moyer: LHP or Kyle Kendrick: RHP

If no starter is signed, Moyer and Kendrick will enter the 2010 season as the two candidates for the fifth starter’s job. One would have to imagine that Moyer has the advantage based on the fact that he is getting paid a hefty salary and he makes less sense out of the bullpen, despite a few good performances in relief last year.

Bullpen

Brad Lidge: RHP

Ryan Madson: RHP

J.C. Romero: LHP

Chad Durbin: RHP

Kendrick/Moyer

These five will definitely be in the bullpen to start the season. Durbin was tendered a contract last week and will likely receive a $2-2.5M contract any day now.

If you’ve done the math, you know that the names listed make up 23 of the 25 spots on the major league roster. If the Phils don’t make another move from now until April 5, the last two spots in the ‘pen would probably go to left-hander Antonio Bastardo and right-hander Scott Mathieson, an intriguing young reliever who has had two Tommy John surgeries that have derailed his promising career.

Mathieson went 4-0 with a 0.84 ERA in 2009, splitting time between Rookie League, High-A, and Double-A Reading. He struck out 34 batters in 32 innings and his WHIP was under 0.90.

Thus far in the Arizona Fall League, Mathieson has compiled a 2.84 ERA and 15 strikeouts in 12 2/3 innings. His eight walks are too many.

I highly doubt the Phillies enter the season with Kendrick/Moyer, Bastardo, and Mathieson making up the final three bullpen spots. They will sign a reliever or two before then.

Fernando Rodney

Todd Zolecki reports that the team’s top targets are  former Tigers closer Fernando Rodney and future Hall-of-Famer John Smoltz.

Smoltz would be a very good one-year signing, but Rodney is a bad multi-year deal waiting to happen. Rodney saved 37 games for Detroit last year, but his walk rate (4.9/9 IP) was too high and his strikeout rate (7.3/9) was too low for a late-inning reliever. His WHIPs over the last two seasons have been below average, at 1.59 and 1.47.

Rodney’s most redeeming trait is that he’s an extreme ground ball pitcher. 58% of the balls hit in play against Rodney in 2009 were on the ground. In his career, the Dominican native has a 1.43 GB/FB ratio.

The ground balls would be nice, but Rodney is basically Chad Durbin in terms of strikeouts and J.C. Romero with walks (Romero’s career BB rate is 5.0/9, Rodney is 4.6/9.

I won’t be jumping for joy if the Phillies sign him to a two-year, $12M or a three-year/$15-16M contract. That is likely what he’ll command, since Mike Gonzalez, a similarly valued reliever, just signed for 2 years/$12M with the Orioles.

Smoltz

This would be a very good signing because Smoltz could start or relieve. He can be had for an incentive-laden one-year deal, and the Phillies could do exactly what they did with Chan Ho Park a season ago – offer Smoltz the chance to compete for the fifth starter’s job, and if he doesn’t pitch well from that role, move him to the bullpen.

At 43, Smoltz still has a powerful fastball that hovers around 91-92. He hit his spots well last year after returning to the NL, getting swings-and-misses on 31% of his pitches outside the strike zone (league average is 25%.)

His 8.4 strikeouts per nine innings were more than Rodney and his 2.1 BB/9 were significantly less.

Best Case Scenario

In my opinion, the best case scenario for the Phillies would be to sign Smoltz to a one-year deal, re-sign Chan Ho Park, and miss out on Rodney. A bullpen with Park, Smoltz, Madson, and Lidge as late-inning options and Romero as the situational lefty would be dynamic, as all four righties are strikeout pitchers.

There is no word on how much, if any, progress the Phils are making with Park, but it was made clear several weeks ago that he, once again, believes he can start. If this is so, expect teams to do exactly what the Phils did last year – promise him a job starting and move him to the pen if he is ineffective.

You’d think that at this point in his career it would be pretty evident to Park that relieving is the best option for him, but he obviously doesn’t agree with that sentiment.

(Since I’m figuring some of you will ask about Matt Capps and/or Scott Eyre in the comments section, I can tell you that many other teams are more interested in Capps than the Phillies appear to be, and the last time Ruben Amaro mentioned Eyre, it was to say that he was “pricing himself out of the Phillies range.)

Money

Financially, the Phillies are in the same position they were in before the Halladay deal. By trading Lee and his $9M salary, and receiving $6M along with Halladay, the $15.75M Doc is due in 2010 didn’t hamper the Phillies at all. The deals were a wash, financially.

So, how about they invest a little bit of money in a low-risk, high-reward deal for Smoltz, and do whatever they can to re-sign Park?

What do you think?

Avatar of Corey Seidman

About Corey Seidman

Corey Seidman has written 210 articles on Phillies Nation.

Corey is Analysis Editor for Phillies Nation and also writes for CSNPhilly.com.

 
 
  • Posts: 0 ActuallyChilled

    It is not often that I comment, and please forgive the partially non-post issue being raised, but I am still seeking perspective on why Lee had to be shipped so fast. In order to stay topic, I’ll put this in parenthesis.

    (I understand shipping Lee (although tough to see the epic warrior go). Was this a Gillick driven move to help out Seattle? It seems that, assuming the Phils weren’t faced with a Halladay deadline race with another team, a sound approach would be instead to sit for a few weeks and see what kind of offers came in for Lee. Even Seattle seemed ‘shocked’ at the deal happening.

    I just think it was hasty. Look at the Angels. On one hand, it does lighten the Phils competition by going to a lesser competitor for a year… but I don’t see that as the factor here.

    Yes, they got a good deal for Lee coming in to begin with so it’s basically a wash. i don’t want to be greedy, but this seems strange, I don’t feel these guys justifiably replenish the system – and I don’t know whether other looks weren’t taken. Or whether Toronto would have taken in prospects from any other third party teams Seattle or otherwise. There wasn’t enough coverage on this. I need some answers.)

    I am very encouraged by the lineup with Polanco. The team seems to have gotten stronger. I can see the Phils signing Smoltz and perhaps Pedro for that matter, both would be somehow hilarious and entertaining, and probably effective.

    I imagine that Roy has a tremendous impact on the pitching staff and team overall. He is a current great, linking up with other current greats. Modern legend joining modern champs. This will be another sick ride.

    If there is anything additional that needs to be addressed, it is 1) value of the farm system, and 2) Cole. It’s about Cole. Let’s not pretend it’s not. You need two top of the rotation guys. Not one. Cole steps up, all will be forgotten. Except for 1). Hence, the Lee comment…

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew

    He was shipped so fast because you the fans couldnt handle even 3 days of the thought of Lee and Halladay. Good trades both. Lost 7 of top 10 prospects in 6 months. Something had to be done. The GM thinks beyond 2010 unlike the fans.

     
  • Posts: 312 Corey Seidman

    Avatar of Corey Seidman

    ActuallyChilled – All valid points. You’re asking the same question I asked in yesterday’s write-up of the deals.

    The hastiness of the Cliff Lee trade is the toughest part to swallow. If the Phils would’ve stood pat for a few weeks, let 29 other teams know Lee’s available, and sit back, the market would have gone crazy and teams would be tripping over themselves to outbid one another for a Cy Young pitcher coming off an amazing postseason.

    I understand (but don’t agree with) the need to get prospects in return for Lee to replenish what was becoming a barren farm system. But nobody understands why it had to be done so quickly for the package the Mariners were offering.

     
  • Posts: 0 NateB

    Back to Halladay- this is the best pitcher in the game and his character is up there with the game’s all-time greatest off-the-field players, actually reminds me a lot of Dale Murphy. Anyone associated with the Blue Jays can’t talk about Doc without almost shedding a tear with praise and admiration. I think he will have a huge effect on Cole and the entire pitching staff. Besides, Cole, feeling like the “Lefty Ace” of the staff, will step it up this year. I’m excited for the impact that Doc will make on the team and even the community.

     
  • Posts: 0 SirAlden

    Beautifully written post. On the mark.

    Two pitching spots.

    Park
    Smoltz

    Mathieson and Bastardo Righty and Lefty in AAA
    Carpenter and Savery (not likely) starters in AAA as well.

    Here are the Injury Risks:
    Moyer – will he ever pitch again?
    Lidge – will he be effective?
    Romero – will he be effective?

    Three question marks, so I hope the Phillies sign 3 not 2 Free Agents.

    Martinez
    Eyre – will he be effective?

    I hope Pedro is signed, he wants to be here, having him in addition
    to Halladay, and Moyer, with his experience to pass on would be great.

     
  • Posts: 0 badlukk13

    FWIW, and concerning Chan Ho (I can’t remember where I read/heard this, so I can’t account for it being legitimate):

    Chan Ho knows he’s a reliever, his desire to start comes from Korea’s TV schedule… apparently Mr. Park is quite the celebrity in his home nation. So if I remember correctly, Park said that Koreans watch his games like Americans watch Idol, but the stations only carry games that they know he’ll be playing in… hence he wants to start, since it guarantees his family, friends, and countrymen will see him play. If that’s actually the case, then I gotta respect his determination to start, especially if it means him doing so for less in a small market. If that’s not the case, then Chan Ho needs to swallow his ego and get his Korean butt back in the Pen already!

     
  • Posts: 0 badlukk13

    I correct myself, as a Korean… Chan Ho has no butt.

     
  • Posts: 0 bfo_33

    Nice post, to the point. I would also like to stay away from Rodney. I know a few Tigers fans – none of which are particularly sorry to see him go. Better off with Smoltz and Park.

    Sheridan has a nice article on the Halladay/Lee deals. We won’t know if the Lee deal will be a good one for a few years, but I like the thinking.

     
  • Posts: 0 Jeff Y.

    Is Brett Myers done??

     
  • Posts: 0 Jason

    Regarding Smoltz:
    Would he even sign? Smoltz has stated several times that he absolute hates CBP. If he never wanted to pitch there before…. why now?

     
  • Posts: 0 Adam

    I don’t know why you like Smoltz so much… I have as much respect for the guy as one can have, but did you see him last year? He couldnt pitch in Boston, he couldnt pitch in St Louis. The only games he had success in were against the Nats, Pads, Royals, and Os. Over the hill HOFer. Id really not waste the $ to get him.

     
  • Posts: 0 Adam

    I’d rather have Myers (ugh)

     
  • Posts: 0 chuckS

    Something I was wondering about, if the phillies hadn’t signed Roy Halladay where would he have ended up? New York, Boston, LA? Could you imagine that, RAJ probally been ran out of town if the phillies faced Doc in October, right? Lets just hope the phillies make it there!!

     
  • Posts: 0 Mike

    hi, I don’t comment much but I thought I would put out the reasons I see for the entire deal

    #1: We can’t compare the prospects for Doc to the prospects for Lee. Lee is the classic one-year rental. From the beginning, at least from the Phils perspective, a Doc deal meant an exclusive right to bargain longterm at a favorable rate.

    #2: There were NOT going to be a lot of teams for Lee. What do I mean!?! Well, sending Lee to an NL team was pretty much out of the question (in short, it would be dumb). Sending Lee to the AL East would be a mistake b/c you don’t want to further strengthen those teams. The AL Central had no great trading partner (but perhaps MN), so you were stuck with the Angels or the Ms. The Angels were players for Halladay and it may have been hard to work them in b/f signing Halladay. The Ms apparantly came in b/c we were originally interest in moving their pitcher to the Jays. At the winter meetings, the Ms were the most natural partner. They probably stayed in the deal to avoid breaking up the Halladay trade or b/c we naturally know that organization better.

    #3: Trading Lee probably was NOT about money. I think this trade developed in the Winter Meetings. We could have nontendered Blanton or traded him and the deal would have been done for both. We then would not have needed the same amount of work in the bullpen (two guys who can go deep and give even a marginal BP a rest). This deal was about prospects and the future. This is what happens when you have a young GM who wants a legacy outside the shadow of Gillick. By the way, that is NOT a bad thing.

    #4: The right comparison is the Lee for Lee trades. In that sense, this wasn’t a bad deal. The prospects we got for Lee are better than the ones we gave up. As an aside, the prospect we gave up for Halladay now are not as good as the ones we would’ve had to give up in July. Now, we think we could have gotten more for Lee but, as I’ve explained, there were only two teams available. Moreover, Lee is a pure rental and one who—aside from the playoffs—presented some trouble signs down the stretch (not great ones mind you).

    Given the circumstances, this was a good deal.

     
  • Posts: 0 SpinJamin

    I really want the Phillies to sign Smoltz if he is willing to go to the bullpen. It would be a win-win because they’ll add a great bullpen arm and have a spot starter available at anytime. I hope they seriously consider Smoltz because they still need to add a good bullpen arm, not just some guy they hope will do well.

    I know that they could always use Aumont now that they have him if an injury comes up but I’d like to give the guy a chance to start fresh in a new organization and see what happens as a starter.

     
  • Posts: 0 Mazinman

    Doc Halladay in a Phillies uniform, a dream of mine has come true. Halladay is one of the few non-Phillies players who I have been a fan of over the last few years so I am obviously very happy to see him around. The sheer joy in his face in being in Philly during the Press Conference yesterday was also great to watch. Cliff Lee was great for us but Halladay is in another level all together. With this offense behind him a 20 win season and a Cy Young are very definite possibilities.

    The Lee trade was smart in a lot of ways, I think. What was Ruben supposed to do with him? Trade him to a team like the Yankees or Angels and maybe have to face him in the World Series next year? Seattle is ideal because we get some prospects back and it lessens the probability that he gets in our way. Did we get enough for him? We are not going to know for a couple year. What I do know is that now two straight GMs have been criticized for not getting back enough for Cliff Lee. Could the market for him in MLB be less than what we think?

    Losing Taylor and Drabek definately sucks but the sting is definately eliminated by seeing Halladay wearing the uniform. Baring any injury disasters, the guy should be the rock of our rotation for years to come which is important because Hamels has been so inconsistent. Lee could not be that rock because he would have been likely gone after this year.

     
  • Posts: 0 bob

    Sign Smoltz
    Sign Park (although that is looking more and more unlikely)

    Address these needs (possibly get Pedro in here for cheap to push for 5th spot in rotation) and lets get rolling with 2010.

    Ace starter (CHECK)
    Addressing the bench (CHECK)
    Address the bullpen (Still waiting)

     
  • Posts: 0 bfo_33

    I haven’t analyzed all his appearances, but on the few I saw, it seems that Smoltz gets in trouble his second time through the order. He’d be nice in the pen. I also think there is next to no market for Myers, he’d be cheap. There is something else going on, though. Was the Hamels argument real? Has Ruben had enough of his redneck ways? Ruben learned well from Gillick – don’t air the dirty laundry. We may never know why Myers isn’t being pursued by the Phils.
    I am a strong believer that with the exception of a closer, you don’t spend big money on a bullpen. A strong starting rotation is the biggest asset, then throw a bunch of cheap arms in there and see whcih ones work. Halladay will have the biggest impact on the bullpen. He pitches deep almost every game, and will make Hamels (and Happ) even better by being a completely different pitcher. Not a shot at Lee, but delivery,… is too close to Hamels and Happ – allows guys to get locked in. I think you’ll see the whole staff going deeper into games this year, and the bullpen will be very good, not due to talent, but to reduced burden.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    Id like to see them sign someone to compete for the 5th spot. Obvoiusly, itll be a cheaper risk/reward type pitcher, likely coming off of injury. But Id feel a little better with another option in there to create competition.

    Re-sign Park. Maybe even let him compete for the 5th spot in ST again. But ultimately hell be in the bullpen here.

    Im ok with giving Bastardo a chance, since I dont trust the effectiveness of Romero coming off of last season.

    Kendrick may always be an up and down organizational type of pitcher. Bouncing back and forth when someone else gets hurt, but I dont expect him to make the roster out of ST. Although, in San Diego’s park hed do quite allright I think.

    I would like to sign someone other than Rodney, I feel that he will give us fits. Even as a 7th or 8th inning option, I just dont know. Id prefer Matt Capps, but he is attracting a lot of other interest.

     
  • Posts: 0 j reed

    Happy Halladay…I got my Red Ryder BB gun for X-Mas.

    As to the Lee issue….that’s all about Amaro being constrained by the phantom 5 ownership and their imposed cap. The ownership stance has not changed and other GMs know this. Think about it, a team being poised to make baseball history along side the Big Red Machine has 8 relievers on the DL 3 weeks before a post season birth and your owners won’t spring for 1 measly middle reliever….are you f***ing kidding me! But we have the BUDGET which no one ever, like the owners, sees. Maybe no one sees the books because that 5 way cut of the profits is an eyebrow raising number. Even Lee at 9 mil. for one year with the all the firepower we have is a low risk high reward scenario. So, if you have 5 owners all seriously rich to begin with and they lack the vision to see the huge pay off it tells me that they still just as conservative as they were 20+ years ago. And keep in mind that increasing pay roll is what they were supposed to do…you reward your labor for winning. They get no lemon cookie for that.
    What all this means for Amaro is no leverage. No chance to play teams off one another. I mean what else can you do when your low balled by your own people. I mean crikey there’s the budget which everyone knows were adamnant about maintaining. Thanks for putting the “kick me” sign on our GM’s back you a**hole owners. That package should have had at least one top tier prospect or a decent reliever but it’s not Amaro’s fault, that falls on the great business minds of the phantom 5.
    At least Aumont is 6’7.

     
  • Posts: 312 Corey Seidman

    Avatar of Corey Seidman

    To whoever asked about Smoltz wanting to pitch at Citizens Bank Park – He stated recently that he’d love to come here and wouldn’t mind pitching in this park.

    When I first mentioned Smoltz a few weeks ago I wrote something like “Ironic that he doesn’t mind coming here, now,” as in, all the sudden when he doesn’t have as many suitors, CBP doesn’t look like such a bad place to pitch.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ben

    j reed, your completely speculating on the ownerships fat wallets, and completely overlooking the fact that our budget has ballooned in the last few years. they have loosened the boot straps for us, much more so than other teams have. while i agree they aren’t scraping to put food on the table, they have been generous to us. the lee trade wasn’t just for money, it was about prospects. the quicker people realize that and stop blaming ownership the better.

    as for lee, the deal makes sense as someone said, in that they trade him to seattle. while seattle is A LOT better (king felix and lee, they’ve upgraded their lineup too) the likelyhood is we will never face lee next year. there is something to be said for that. plus, the prospects weren’t throw ins, but thats been discussed ad nauseum.

    as for the issue at hand. i like smoltz on an incentive laden deal b/c of his versatility. i’d also love chan ho back, but obviously in the bullpen. otherwise i’m just happy halladay is on the team.

     
  • Posts: 0 Mike

    I am not sure its so obvious that Chan Ho is a BP piece. He had a rough start to ’09. Perhaps he would have had the same rough start in the BP. He turned it around in the BP but perhaps he would have turned it around as a starter. I would give him another shot, although I’m not sure he’d take the opportunity to compete. He may feel that it is just a token gesture. Either way, this is not a guy we can lose without feeling some sting.

     
  • Posts: 0 Kevin

    Corey, do you see Aumont in the bullpen next year at all?

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    If mad people get injured theyll bring Aumont up IF HES DOING WELL. Otherwise, he is only like 20/21. No reason to rush him. I presume hell start at AA along with JC Ramirez and Gillies. Reading will be an interesting team to watch this year. A lot of guys who have to show whether or not they are for real.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    My knee jerk was that the deals evaluated separately were not that great BUT the end result was acceptable… my final conclusion is that we made out pretty good.

    The Halladay deal is the easiest to evaluate- we got the best pitcher in baseball for four more years, at least… we lost Drabek and Taylor which stings but Drabek is far from a sure thing and Taylor, it seems, doesn’t fit in our plans. In my opinion, the front office is making a statement with this deal that Jayson Werth is going nowhere… when Ibanez’ time is up, Domonic Brown takes over in LF and when Vic’s time is up, Gillies is the guy… and I’m ok with that. Even if Drabek makes his big league debut in 2010 and pitches well for the next five years (which will require hand holding and limited innings), I would think that we’re still better off with the horse.

    Initially, the Lee deal seemed to be centered on Aumont but it looks like Gillies was the more sought after prospect in this deal. Aumont is a high risk, high reward guy. With Gillies, we get a contact hitting speedster with a rocket arm. Sound like someone else we know? Gillies is 20 years old- he hit .341 last year (albeit A-advanced)… he immediately becomes one of our top prospects. So we lost Taylor’s power… as long as Brown continues to develop the way we all expect him to, we should be able to live with that.

    Evaluated as one big deal, the premise of the deal was actually better than the deal itself (maybe we could have gotten more for Lee or kept Lee and worried about the farm later or maybe we could have gotten Roy for less) but we got it done. You can’t turn a blind eye to the future and Lee was the only chip that we had that was going to bring us value. I think that any trade is going to make you cringe a little bit. As Phans, we have all done a great job of keeping tabs on our farm and talking about our prospects in the highest regard. That is what allowed us to get Lee and Halladay… so kudos to you. Soak it all in… we’re STILL the team to beat in the NL.

     
  • Posts: 0 rjb360

    Justin Duchsherer sure would be a nice piece as he has experience (and success) starting and relieving. We could start him in the pen while we see how Moyer does in the rotation to allow him a chance to ease back after a full year off from injuries and depression. Throw him into the rotation halfway through the year and we suddenly have a pretty sick rotation again. The guy has a better SO/BB rate than Cliff Lee! And I bet being part of this clubhouse, hanging out with Halladay and Moyer, and a healthy dose of winning could do wonders for the depression.

    He made just under $4MM with the A’s in 2008 and had an incredible year, but hasn’t pitched since then. Not sure what he would command, but that price (or slightly above) would be a steal. I would be happy with him being the last move the Phils make this offseason.

     
  • Posts: 0 Evan

    Park isn’t a starter. His velocity went up when he went to the bullpen, and his movement looked a lot better. These were the keys to his success, and he loses them when he’s throwing 90 pitches every 5 days. For what its worth, Ruben said it doesn’t look good for signing Park anyway. He also said the Halladay deal wasn’t gonna happen either, but I actually believe him when he’s talking about Park.

    I think the Phils best bet is to go out and sign Smoltz as an insurance piece. Have him compete with Kendrick and Moyer for the fifth spot in Spring Training and then have either Smoltz or Kendrick in the pen. I don’t know if Moyer can pitch from the pen successfully. Otherwise the pen can be pieced together with the current major league players and some minor leaguers who have shown promise (bastardo and mathieson).

     
  • Posts: 0 Georgie

    I agree Cory, we have to let the Cliff Lee thing go. The Phillies now have the best pitcher in the league, and we went to the WS last year, so I am STOKED for 2010. Do you guys realize how much fun this team will be to watch for many years to come? it’s a wonderful time to be a Phillies fan, bask in the sunlight that Roy Halladay will bring to Philadelphia.

     
  • Posts: 0 Monk the Mediocre

    Keeping in mind that Smoltz can start, relieve and close makes him an attractive option. Also, it is obvious that he also wants to WIN !!! I think the Phils need to move beyond Chan Ho Park and Scott Eyre and look for another reliable lefty in the pen, whether it is within the organization or outside of it. I agree that Fernando Rodney is not the answer for the Phils. We don’t need anyone else to start the season on the bench. We need to focus on pitching, period.

     
  • Posts: 0 Mike

    We need to resign Park. He needs to realize he is a good reliever and a poor starter. He was one of the people coming out of the pen last year that I really trusted.

    As for another arm, I would chose Smoltz. I don’t want to have to be locked into Rodney for 2 or 3 years. Smoltz with an incentive deal could be valuable for us.

    Are teams showing interest in Pedro?

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    I would be ok with having Moyer, Kendrick, Bastardo and Mathieson competing for three of the final four spots but I think that we need one more reliable bullpen arm… I would not classify Smoltz or Rodney as reliable and I’m not sure they’ll be cheap, either. Capps would be nice but there are too many teams bidding up the price of his services.

    A guy that I might be willing to take a flyer on is Brendan Donnelly…

     
  • Posts: 0 mikemike

    what do i do with my new lee jersey stick i n my ear. salary dumb all y people who dont think it was are nuts. there are the option marguis, lowe, are on the market and the angels are loaded with money and need a starter, if we granted them a chance to sign lee long term what would y think we get then, lee agent said he wasnt against signing here it was cleveland he wouldn’t sign and wanted to test free agency.

     
  • Posts: 0 NEPA

    The Cliff Lee thing reminds me of our need to satisfy Curt Schilling years ago,that is….. trade a star for a bunch of scrubs.
    It is perplexing because this time,we didnt have to do it.
    I have heard that we did this because 1)we needed the prospects.(but we could have done better by waiting ,I cant believe Ruben is that dumb)
    Or, 2)we needed to get rid of payroll.(Dont believe it)
    Even the same people when asked give both answers.
    The only conclusion is there is something we dont know and no one will tell us about the true story of the Cliff Lee deal.

     
  • Posts: 0 j reed

    mikemike – i’m interested in what you have to say but am having a hard time understanding. what is it you are trying to say?

     
  • Posts: 0 Dhall

    Yeah, right now I’m trying to figure out what to do with my Cliff Lee jersey. Maybe I can get it restitched to say Halladay, especially since the numbers are not changing.

    I wish Harry was here to see Halladay pitch. I can hear it now…”Swing and a miss, struck em’ out. Phils win 6-0 behind a complete game shutout from the good doctor!”

     
  • Posts: 0 South Jersey Al

    I’ve tried to get past the Lee trade but can’t. I keep thinking the title for the 2010 season video will inevitably be the proverbial saddest words of tongue and pen – “What Might Have Been.”

     
  • Posts: 0 psujoe

    Knowing Lee would be moved to replentish the farm why not wait? That’s what I keep think, but evidence suggest maybe there’s just not the demand for him like Halladay.

    Seriously, Phils got him for 1 long term stud and 3 possible MLB contributer, not sure things.

    Now the Phils get 3 young long term possibles.

    Maybe that’s the best the Phils could do outside of the Yankees and that Dog don’t hunt.

     
  • Posts: 0 WORLD

    The pity of this whole thing is that Moyer and Blanton took the bucks that could have resigned Lee to an extension. The organization should be thinking another World Series win and this team had to use an over-the-hill Pedro Martinez is two of six starts in 2009.

    With Lee, the Phils had a dynamic 1-2 punch and if Hamels could recover, then they were basically lights out. Now, they have to cross their fingers and hope Hamels can get his act back together.

    And if the Mets sign Lee after next year, THEY will be the team with the dynamic 1-2 punch. They’ve got to be thinking that in New York.

    Amaro should have kept Lee, non-tendered Blanton or traded him for some lesser prospects, and found the Phillies a RH starter from amongst the free agents or from the hurlers in the organization. Even if he could not resign Lee after having an entire year to attempt the same, there would be two #1 picks to draft prime college graduates who should be ready to step up in a year or two.

    Amaro blew a once-in-a-lifetime situation. What a shame.

    And let’s not even think about Halladay having an off-year or suffering some kind of injury.

     
  • Posts: 0 Jesus

    I think if Amaro would have waited he would have actually lost leverage. Teams would have known that he needed to do something with Lee. I honestly believe that Amaro did what he had to do in order for this deal to get done as soon as possible. Look how crazy we all got dreaming of a Halladay, Lee, Hamels rotation. Imagine if that lingered for 3 weeks. We would have been insane!

     
  • Posts: 0 Christian

    Separate deals between the Angels, mariners and Phillies would have worked out best:

    Two trade chips with the most value would have been Lee and Werth.

     
  • Posts: 0 Griffin

    I think the Phils could have traded Lee next July and received more than what they got from Seattle.

    Seattle has already given up on Aumont as a starter and have converted him into a reliever.

    Gilles the outfielder isn’t really a prospect-he was rated the 24th best prospect in Seattle’s organization before the year. He can not hit and I’d be surprised if he ever makes it to the majors.

    This is what one year of Cliff Lee at a reasonable salary brings back? Amaro could have and should have done A LOT better.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    Lee has NO trade value in relation to his skill. HIS AGENT HAS PUBLICLY SAID FOR OVER TWO YEARS THAT HE WILL NOT SIGN A CONRACT EXTENSION AND WILL BECOME A FREE AGENT AT FULL MARKET PRICE.

    If you are trading him, the longer you wait the less you get because the odds are the team getting him will not resign him. His value SHOULD he almost as high as Roy’s, but it isnt because of his cotnract demands. He does not have that much trade value if you look at it that way.

    They got about as much as they are ever going to get for him.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    Trading Werth now = no world series. Werth protects Howard Now, with Taylor gone. Werth becomes the ONLY RH POWER HITTER IN THE ENTIRE ORGANIZATION IN OR CLOSE TO THE MAJORS. Brown is more like Victorino as a hitter, better suited to succeed Jimmy at the top of the order in 2011 or 2012.

    If you lose your ONLY RH POWER HITTER IN THE ENTIRE ORGANIZATION IN OR CLOSE TO THE MAJORS then the offense will dramatically decrease. NO. BAD!

    They may have to resign Werth now because they have NO RH OTHER POWER HITTER IN THE ENTIRE ORGANIZATION IN OR CLOSE TO THE MAJORS.

    Come on man

     
  • Posts: 0 Griffin

    What are you talking about “Lee has no trade value”? Plenty of teams would be willing to deal for one year of Lee at a reasonable price.

    Just because tunnel vision Amaro acquired his man crush and traded Cliff Lee away in time to get to Halladay’s press conference doesn’t mean that Cliff Lee didn’t have a lot of trade value.

     
  • Posts: 0 Griffin

    How can the Phillies expect to re-sign Werth when they needed Toronto to kick in $6 million for Hallday’s salary?

    Werth should be looking for $12 mil a year. How are the Phils going to afford that?

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Jayson Werth IS NOT going to be traded….everyone needs to understand that….The reasons Geoff just gave bear that out…he is THE MOST IMPORTANT OUTFIELDER we have right now…

    __________

    As far as the Cliff Lee thing is concerned….it’s OVER….MOVE ON….for all of you who are still upset about it…

    Let’s just see what these guys that we got can do….I’m sure Ruben and Co. did their homework and didn’t just “dump” Lee without thinking what they were going to get in return…

    Just appreciate Lee for what he did while he was here….get us to a second WS….that’s worth what we gave up to get him and what we gave up to get Halladay….

     
  • Posts: 0 Jesus

    Remember that the Phils have former Seattle scouts and Gillick on our payroll who know the M’s farm system pretty much better than anyone. We all have to remember these are PROSPECTS, nothing more. Please take the time to look back at how many “top” prospects sunk and how many low level prospects have shined. I have faith that the Phils did their homework and believe that these three kids have some upside potential. I’m the biggest Michael Taylor fan around and it kills me that he will be starting for the A’s next year but he was drafted in the 5th round and batted .221 his first season in the minors at the age of 21. Let’s give these kids some time to prove themselves before we say that they are garbage prospects.

     
  • Posts: 0 Griffin

    Yes, why would we still be discussing a trade that happened 24 hours ago? It is definitely time to start analyzing spring training games.

    Werth is not going to be traded, but he’s not going to be a Phillie in 2011 either.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    Well theyd better make sure they have someone to protect Howard if they do let Werth walk, which is likely…and right now there is no one in their system who can do that.

    Lee wont resign. Period. Now matter where he is. We know that. If you cant resign him and youre trading for him you wont be willing to give up NEARLY as much. Since hed be a type A youd get the two draft picks, so youre going to get more than the two draft picks for trading him, but not much more.

     
 
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