Year in Review: Cliff Lee

Posted by Pat Gallen, Tue, December 29, 2009 02:30 PM | Comments: 116
2009 Year in Review, Posts

http://blog.lehighvalleylive.com/sports_impact/2009/08/large_phillies.JPGJust when you thought the Cliff Lee talk would simmer, we reel you back in!  It is the Year in Review, so we have to cover everyone.  Yes, including the guy who was here for a three month stretch that was one of the most important and unimaginable showings in Phillies history. As quickly as he came in, he was swept away by the front office to Seattle.

The brevity of Cliff Lee’s stay in Philadelphia is somewhat of a head-scratcher considering he dominated the final two months and the playoffs like he was Sandy Koufax.  Still, it’s a piece of Phillies history that won’t soon be forgotten by the allegiance who witnessed it.

Beginning with a complete-game four-hitter against San Francisco in his first start with the Phils, to his finale; seven hard-fought innings in World Series Game 5 to keep the team gasping on life support.  No matter the challenge, Cliff Lee seemed up for it.

In between his first and last starts, Lee tossed in a litany of season-altering performances, many of which you will see on our Top 25 list in the coming days.  A complete-game shutout with 11 strikeouts against Arizona? Check.  A CG-SO against Washington late in the season?  You bet.  A 4-0 postseason record with a 1.56 ERA and two complete games?  Lee made it happen. What he could not help was a World Series defeat at the hands of the evil empire.  But don’t blame Lee for that.  His two WS victories presented a small window of opportunity for the Phillies; one which they could not capitalize on, unfortunately.

And just like that, it’s over.  Feeling the need to secure long-term financial stability, coupled with the belief that Lee would test free-agent waters once 2010 was through, Ruben Amaro Jr. sent him packing to Seattle in that raucous three-team deal that brought Roy Halladay to Philly.  Whether it was the correct move or not, it will only allow for Cliff Lee’s legendary status to grow here in this baseball-crazed town.  Sure, we will learn to love the same type of shutdown efforts by Halladay every fifth day, but few have ever made their mark on a city like Cliff Lee.

There have been heaps and heaps of trades consummated at the deadline over the years, but few have rendered results like this one.  It’s safe to say that this was one of the finest acquisitions in the history of this franchise.

And for that, we will always, always remember Clifton Phifer Lee.

2009 numbers (with PHI): 7-4, 3.39 ERA, 79.2 IP, 74 K, 10 BB, 3 CG, 1 Shutout

GRADE: 9.8/10 – Few players will ever steal the breath of a Phillies fan the way Lee did.  This would have been a 10 out of 10 had the Phils captured back-to-back World Series titles, although it wasn’t from lack of effort Lee.  Just an incredible season, there’s really no other way to put it.

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About Pat Gallen

Pat Gallen has written 1714 articles on Phillies Nation.

Pat is Editor-in-Chief of Phillies Nation. He also covers the Phils for 97.5 FM in Philly.

  • Posts: 0 Maverick

    Please.. spare us from having to read about cliff lee. I’m really happy Halladay is a Phillie but the Cliff Lee deal still stings.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    I’ve already forgotten about Cliff Lee

    he was awesome when he got here, then sucked for a few starts.. and was great in a Playoff run that fell short of a World Series championship

    He’s since been replaced with a better pitcher..

    so thanks for your time here.. I wish you the best of luck, Cliff .. but I’ve moved on, and hope my fellow Phillies fans will do the same

  • Posts: 0 Karen

    Sorry, this trade still stings. To make it worse, lee genuinely was sad when traded. It is tough to see the value in a trade where you lose the only starter to win all games in playoffs.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    If Lee really wanted to stay here so bad, he shouldn’t have started yapping about wanted a 5+ year deal, at $25 million per season

    Once him and his agent opened up, they also opened the door right out of Philadelphia

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    As I’ve said before….and I’m sure that MOST of you here at PN will DISAGREE with me…but….. I REALLY DON’T FEEL BAD FOR CLIFF LEE…..I don’t buy this “genuinely sad when traded” thing….sorry….it’s just how I feel…

    Yeah….thanks for what you did for us while you were here….and best of luck with your new team(s)….I wish you all the success in the world…

    Now…onto 2010 and a great season!!

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Jason Bay to the Mets for 4 years, $66 M … and I heard a 5th year option at $14 Million

    No wonder the Mets keep sucking, $16.5 M per season for a player who is “good” but not “Great”

  • Posts: 0 Brooks

    Karen, I understand what you are feeling, especially since Lee did appear genuinely saddened that he was no longer a Phil.
    But consider that Halladay wants to be here and he is the best pitcher in the majors today!
    It will be fine and we’ll be toasting to the WFC in 2010!

    Go Phils!

  • Posts: 0 mike mike

    Don you are reading phillies propranda. The agent said on radio that he never discuss terms with the phillies but let it be known, that lee wouldn’t stay in cleveland if in cleveland he wanted to test free agency. This was a bad deal. a salary dump any you can try to make it seem different but fans know these owners and they didnt want to pay extra money this year, because they are cheap bastards, for once we had a team that could be dominant and they blow it, all the years i can remember its one two years this team had a chance to be great this year and beyond,

  • Posts: 0 Griffin

    I’m still surprised that people are thinking that acquiring Halladay and dumping Cliff Lee were linked-they were not.

    The Phils dumped Cliff Lee for 40 cents on the dollar but announced the Halladay deal the same day so they wouldn’t take a PR hit. It looks like the Phils strategy is working and people are convinced that there is no conceivable way that they could both have been on the team in 2010.

  • Posts: 0 ashmidt

    thank you mikemike, its a pile of krap no matter how they wrap it, and it really smells bad, cheap bastards is being kind, it is no given we are going to the world series in 2010,halladay and lee would have really made it a fun run. don m is a schill for the phils f.o. cant believe phillies fans are turning into kool aid drinkers.

  • Posts: 0 Ben

    griffin, so had we not acquired halladay we would have still traded cliff lee? not disagreeing with your last statement that there was no conceivable way to have both, but these deals were linked together, one doesn’t happen without the other.

    mike mike, lee said that his agent presented a deal to the ruben. it was more than just general guidelines, and it was certainly more than what we got a superior pitcher for. you have to think at the end of the day ruben wanted to know which ace he could extend (we weren’t locking up both) and i agree there is no way lee agrees to the deal that halladay agreed to. that deal is an absolute steal.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    mike mike … then go cheer for another team if these “cheap bastard” owners don’t give you a good enough product

    It isn’t “Phillies” propoganda that Lee said he was definitely going to test the Free Agent market..

    He also stated he wanted “At least 5 years”

    and also stated that he wanted “a C.C. Sabathia type contract”

    know your facts instead of being the typical Philadelphia/Negadelphia sports critic.

    Cliff Lee wasn’t going to sign any type of team-friendly extension (which we’ll need players to do if we want any chance of keeping Howard, Rollins, Utley, Werth, Victorino, etc… past their current deals)

    If the Phillies dumped Lee for 40-cents on the dollar, they still made, out because draft picks are worth less than 30-cents on the dollar, and the guys we gave to Cleveland to get Lee were only worth 38 cents total

    so we still came out ahead!

  • Posts: 0 George

    Sure, Lee was sad. He never got a chance to negotiate with a winning team for a bigger contract than Halladay got. According to all sources, the Phils made an offer. Lee’s agent just didn’t counteroffer soon enough.

    This was no salary dump, either. Not even the Yanks could afford both Lee and Halladay long term and still keep players of the caliber of Werth, Howard, Lidge, Hamels, Utley, etc. And as far as trading Blanton, instead, no team will give up much for a $7 million number three starter, even if he’s coming off a particularly good year. You’d be restocking the farm system with barely-warm bodies.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Our 2010 team is better than our 2008 team (at least on paper) …

    and we’re definitely better with Halladay and Polanco than we were with Lee and Feliz

    These “cheap owners” have increased payroll something like 48% over the past 5 seasons…

    People that aren’t happy with the job the Phillies F.O. is doing, should seriously think about becoming YANKEES fans .. because that is the only thing that would seemingly make you happy.. spend money to the point where ticket prices become so high that none of your games are sold out because people can’t justify spending $400 to take their family to a game

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    They both COULD have been on the same team in 2010….and it WOULD have been fun….no doubt….

    But then Lee would have walked…cause he’s gonna be looking for a 5 year deal at 20-25 mil per year….and the Phillies would have gotten two draft picks in return….

    Now I don’t know about you all…but I think I’d rather take my chances with knowing that my rotation has been improved with acquiring Halladay….and…knowing that I now have THREE legitimate prospects in the system…starting at AA Reading this year..

    Those prospects can either be used in future trades….or…OMG….maybe they might actually be something and might just be able to contribute to the big club in 2011 or 2012…

    But most of you refuse to see that….you just want to continue bitching about this situation…instead of celebrating that we have the best pitcher in baseball….for FOUR years….at BELOW market value…..

    And…we’ve UPGRADED at five different positions….

    The team….our Phillies….National League Champs….are poised to get back to the WS for a 3rd straight year…

    How is it that you all can’t see that??

  • Posts: 0 griffin

    Ben, you’re right, I worded that poorly but we’re in agreement that they both could have been here in 2010.

    One year of Blanton making 7 mil is valuable and acquiring him prevents a team from having to sign a decent pitcher and give him 3 years. Blanton could have brought back at least one of the 3 prospects the Phils got for Lee.

    So instead of having Lee and 2 draft picks, they have Blanton and 2 extra prospects.

    Chuck, if the Phillies actually replenished their system with the Lee trade, then I would agree with you. The bottom line is that these 3 prospects are just not that good. Aumont is a failed starter. Ramirez throws hard but has never put it all together and Gillies is a 4th outfielder at best. None of these prospects are in the top 100 in baseball. Compare that to what the Blue Jays received by trading ONE year of Halladay-2 top 25 prospects and a top 75 prospect and it’s impossible to say that the Lee trade replenished the system.

  • Posts: 0 Phan in Atl

    Only two things I’m bitter about: We should have been able to celebrate Doc coming to Philly without getting blindsided by Lee getting dealt (although I realize that wasn’t possible). And I wish it could have been a true 3 team deal with Aumont going to Toronto and us keeping Drabek.

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Maybe not FULLY replenished….but I’ll still take my chances with the three of them…instead of 2 draft picks…..

    Besides….Aumont…from what I’ve heard….is projected as more of a closer than a starter….which isn’t a bad thing with the troubles the Phillies have had recently at the back end of the pen….

  • Posts: 0 Manny

    “A 4-0 postseason record with a 1.56 ERA and two complete games”

    It doesn’t get much better than that fellas. I will miss Cliff Lee…. and the trade still stings.

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    I’ll miss him too….but it’s time to move on…trust me, HE already has..

  • Posts: 0 Joel V

    True but I would think that you would have to take his partial season with the Phils into account when you make your rating. If that’s the case, we’re forgetting the times in Sept and Oct when he got touched up 4-5 games and had a string of bad outings right before the playoffs. That for me brings his rating down a little bit, not much but a bit.

  • Posts: 0 xfactor

    Yes, we all need to get over the Lee trade but I can’t understand anyone who says we don’t need him, we won’t miss him, we had to trade him to get Halladay, or good riddance because he blew his chance making contract demands.

    Come on, contract demands? Who cares! Negotiating is never easy. Besides, even though we would have had to let him walk at the end of the year, we would have gotten two picks as compensation anyway. In a contract year, Lee has every incentive to have a great season.

    I think people just don’t understand the value of a dominant Big Three in a rotation. A true Big Three makes your entire staff better by creating mismatches against opponents 3,4 and 5 starters. It also saves innings for your pen and improves their match-ups and numbers. The elite teams have a 1-2 punch, so having our own Dynamic Duo doesn’t set us apart. We were already an elite team. The tipping point on a starting rotation is the #3 starter; a Big Three is what separates the best teams from the very good.

    Sure, there is an outside shot that one or two of the prospects we received in return will become all-stars, but it STILL won’t compensate for missing a chance at having a dominant Big Three.

    The main point is this: there is no single player on a baseball team that has more of a positive domino effect than a #3 starter who is as good or better than every one else’s #2. The difference is profound.

    Losing Lee for prospects is a rebuilding move, not a move for a team focused on winning it all. 9MM is a bargain for what Lee provided. In fact, it’s half price even without considering his value as insurance against injury to Halladay or Hamels. Not all 9MM is created equal. Shed salary somewhere else, not by trading an ace!

    Why isn’t this clear to people? Strange.

    Bottom line: the Phillies front office was staring at greatness and, sadly, they blinked.

  • Posts: 0 Joel V

    I’m just trying to make the sting of losing Cliff a little less awful!

  • Posts: 0 badlukk13

    Don M– I am unaware of any instance where Lee, himself, said that he was refusing to sign an extension, that he wanted to test the free-agent market after 2010, or that he was expecting a Sabatia-like deal from whomever was willing to offer it; contrarily, the only words I heard from Lee were the words “shocked,” “saddened,” and “angry.” It was the Phillies front office that informed us that Lee was “unwilling to extend his contract, and desired to test the free-agent market.” So, it essentially comes down to Lee’s word against the front-office’s word… and given that the front office began changing their statements mere days after the trade (right about the time Lee spoke out), and began saying that “they felt” that Lee would be unlikely to extend, and that “they began to assume” that Lee would test free-agency– a stark difference from their earlier assertion that Lee was DEFINITELY going to do, or not do, those things, leads to believe Lee over the FO.

    The bottom line is simple: dealing Lee was a salary dump at the expense of being top-tier contenders. The Phillies shopped Blanton to make room for Lee’s salary, when they realized they weren’t going to get what they wanted… they shopped Lee, barely. It’s a strong business decision in theory, it makes sense; however, the Phillies dumped him quickly to avoid a PR disaster, as opposed to waiting a while and getting maximum value for him, which makes it a horrible business decision in execution.

    And stop telling people to go become Yankee fans just because they’re tired of management taking the fans hard earned money and minimally reinvesting that cash back into the team. If you’re content with ownership taking money from your pocket, and most of that cash into their own pocket, while putting a team that’s half as good as what they could be out on the field… then go be a Kansas City fan.

    Philadelphia sports fans are too jaded nowadays; they’re so used to having teams good enough to contend, but not win, that they’re now siding on behalf of the management that has conditioned them to expect mediocrity… sad. Winning franchises are rare these days, so when an opportunity arises to make the good years spectacular then you take those opportunities.

  • Posts: 0 griffin

    I’d much rather have a year of Lee and 2 draft picks than the 3 prospects the Phils got.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    is the request of no more crying over Cliff Lee as of January 1, 2010

    is that still going into effect??

    We’ve been talking more about Lee than we have about Roy Halladay since we obtained him .. and that aint right

    two more days to get it our of your systems.

  • Posts: 0 Manny


    One full year of Cliff Lee + 2 draft picks (one of them a top pick) > 3 so-so prospects + $9MM

  • Posts: 0 griffin

    After getting shutdown by the Yankees “big 3″ in the playoffs, you would think the Phils would have realized what they could have had.

  • Posts: 0 Griffin

    The excitement of Halladay’s arrival should be tempered by the knowledge that the Phils’ minor league system has been gutted as the Phils nominally improved from Cliff Lee to Roy Halladay.

    Usually when a team trades away top prospects, they are “going for it”, but once the Phils acquired Halladay they hurt their chances of winning in ’10 by trading away Lee.

    A few weeks ago, the Phils had the #4 overall minor league system with 3 top 25 prospects and had an ace in the majors.

    Now, the Phils do not have a top 10 system, have only one 25 prospect and a slightly better ace in the majors.

  • Posts: 0 NEPA

    Once again……..There is no record of Lee or his agent stating that he ..wanted…1) CC Sabathia money or..2) a 5 year contract ..or3).. $25 mil per year TO THE PHILLIES.
    These comments were directed at the INDIANS.
    I dont know why these are brought up time and time again.
    Maybe the front office really didnt want to pay him this year,or there could be other reasons….it is their call ..its their money.

    But I’m convinced that it wasnt the above reasons,and I think the decision to dump him was made really early,with no wiggle room to keep him ,and thats it.

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    “The Phils nominally improved from Cliff Lee to Roy Halladay” “A slightly better ace in the majors.”


    I’m sorry…but if anyone actually thinks that Roy Halladay is a NOMINAL improvement over Cliff Lee… or that he is only SLIGHTLY better than Cliff Lee..then they haven’t been following baseball real carefully over the past decade…

  • [...] the original post: Year in Review: Cliff Lee | Phillies Nation Tags: buy, cliff, including-the-guy, thought-the-cliff, [...]

  • Posts: 0 Chuck


    So what if the comments were made at the Indians….the point is they were made…and that’s how Lee and his agent felt…and, I would be willing to bet…STILL FEEL..

    It’s never a good idea to play all your cards too early like he did…I don’t feel sorry for him one bit..

    Secondly, Maybe the decision to dump him WAS early, with no wiggle room to keep him…fair enough….but I trust Ruben enough at this point…. with all the other decisions he’s made ….to just let this thing play itself out…before judging too harshly..

    At the end of the day…we STILL have a BETTER team…as a WHOLE…than we did a month ago..

    I like the Phillies chances…A LOT….in 2010

  • Posts: 0 NEPA

    There is a big difference as to the team a player directs his comments..what about our own Roy Halladay and the differences in what he would sign for and for which team.
    Think about it .

  • Posts: 0 The second John

    There was no way that both Cliff, and Roy could have been on the same team. They have a BUDGET to stick to. They made this trade to make sure they have an ace for years to come, have enough money to improve the bullpen, and still have some leftover money in case something happens during the season, and someone gets injured, they still have enough money to make a trade. Also, they made sure that they still have a top 10 farm system.

    Anybody calling the Phillies cheap is an idiot plain and simple. They increased their payroll ridiculously over the past few years, and their payroll is in the top 10 in the MLB.

  • Posts: 0 NEPA

    Look I dont think that I have the one and only true opinion on this Lee thing…I’ts just my humble opinion,what do I know?
    I think the Phils should be congratulated for going to $140 million on the payroll,never thought that would happen.
    Also we have now a GREAT Team,better than last year,I think most people out there love the Halladay deal,Polanco too.
    I have been a Phils fan for a long time..this is the best time ever.
    Its just that the Lee deal is WEIRD and doesnt make sense to me,and a lot of other people….It doesnt mean we dont like the team.

  • Posts: 0 James Kay

    @ xfactor: I agree that the FO should have tried to keep Lee for another year. There is no time like the present. But who is this third starter you referred to who has the level of talent of a Halladay or a Lee? Hamels? Perhaps the salary to shed elsewhere should have been Hamels. There a plenty of $400,000 coconut suckers (prospects) with 93+ mph heat who could be experimented with in the # 5 starter position. Youth and competition along with production from proven veterans make the game fresh, exciting, controversial, and not to be overlooked, affordable.
    @Manny: On the mark comment!

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    I think a lot of people feel that that at this time, in this place, and with this team, the ownership should have deviated from a comfortable business practice and kept Lee for ’10. This franchise is in extraordinary times right now. Would Keeping Lee have exceeded the budget? Yes. But I think we all suspect that $140m is just a number ownership picked and not a “drop dead” number or anything of the sort. While I’m sure that number bears a rational relationship to the profits the owners want to realize in ’10, going over it by 9m would have kept none of those guys up at night. As for the prospects, while the Halladay deal would have taxed the farm system, it would have hardly bankrupted it. We don’t need minor leaguers for ’10. We could have waited for the picks that we would have gotten for Lee and Blanton and had quality minor leaguers farther down the pipeline instead of at our fingertips. Ruben made the team better but I’m stuck on what could have been. The Phillies made a value judgment and WHILE ITS NOT MY MONEY, I don’t agree with it. Dare to be great? The Phillies didn’t.

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 The Second John

    Dipsy, I respectfully disagree

    It is a BUDGET. You stick to it no matter what. How do you know we won’t need minor leaguers? How do you know that no one will get injured, and we need to trade for someone, or someone under performs, and we have to get a starter or someone at the deadline? Did you know the Phillies kicked tires on trading for Matt Holliday at the deadline because Ibanez was injured? We need prospects for that. Also, two years ago we got Joe Blanton, and he was huge in our postseason run. We kicked tires on Holliday, and we got Blanton because we had prospects.

  • Posts: 0 xfactor

    @James Kay: I realize Hamels has his doubters and detractors but I for one still see him as an elite starter. Even so, let’s say I’m wrong and he takes another step back this season — isn’t that all the more reason to keep Lee?

    @The second John: Of course the Phillies could have had Halladay and Lee together on the same team. For one, they could have traded Blanton for CJ Henry, a bag of balls and a tub of Lena Blackburne’s Rubbing Mud. I understand there’s a budget but you have to shed payroll where it least hurts and that clearly wasn’t Lee.

    Look, the Lee trade was not just a mistake, it was a BIG mistake. Sure, they can overcome it but I’m concerned about a front office that felt this was a wise move. They say they understand pitching is how you win championships but then they discard an ace right when they have a huge advantage. It’s surreal, to be honest.

    Overall these are good times for the Phillies and the end-effect of the two “companion” trades was an improvement. I’m venting because they improved by a yard instead of a mile. More importantly I’m upset because the Front Office seems to under-appreciate the value of assembling a Big Three. It really is the secret to success and we were so close to having it.

    Meanwhile, I like Blanton. I think he’s a very good starter when matched up against other #4s. However, as a #3, he’s merely good-to-average. I seriously doubt he would have outperformed Hamels or Lee against other team’s #3s.

    I’ll get over it but I won’t drink the Kool Aid. That’s all.

  • Posts: 0 The Second John

    “For one, they could have traded Blanton for CJ Henry, a bag of balls and a tub of Lena Blackburne’s Rubbing Mud.”

    If that would have happened, then you’ve gutted out your farm system. Although the prospects Phills got back weren’t as good as the ones that they gave up, it was still better than 2 draft picks. Also, the prospects they got back help them maintain a top 10 farm system.

    We all know the advantages of having a good farm system. Remember Utley, Howard, Burrel, Cole etc.

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Second John: I am not keeping minor leaguers, JUST IN CASE, when I know I could have Cliff Lee for them instead. I don’t think that makes sense. Why make one of the trades you mentioned when you could keep Lee.

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    I don’t care about a top 10 farm system this year. I want a #20 farm system and Lee. John, we’re in win mode, not in build mode. I love good prospects. You build your team with them. Our team is built.

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    You gotta keep building, though….while IN a winning mode…

    Our team is built ONLY for the short term….

  • Posts: 0 The Second John

    But Dipsy, what are we going to do about the bullpen? If we would’ve kept Lee, our main weakness last year would still be our main weakness.

    Having prospects just in case is important. Remember the year when the Mets had the worst collapse in baseball history? I remember that Chase Utley got hurt and we traded prospects for Tadahito Iguchi. I remember that he played a huge role. What about the year after that? We picked up Joe Blanton because we had enough prospects. He was also huge. Also what about last year? We picked up Cliff Lee because we had prospects. Without Lee we would’ve gotten swept by the Yanks, if we could’ve made the World Series.

    Yes I realize that we are in win now mode, but our core is starting to age. They are going to be out of here soon. We need something after they are gone. Even if we are in win now mode, we still need to plan for the future.

  • Posts: 0 griffin

    If the Phils wanted to have prospects ready to call up in case of injuries, they should have kept Taylor and Drabek, who will both debut in 2010.

    The 3 prospects from the Mariners will not contribute anytime soon.

    Again, the Phillies had a chance to “go for it” this year and they didn’t. They took a huge hit in the farm system by adding Halladay and subtracting Lee and prevented themselves from being able to acquire someone at the 2010 trade deadline (no one wants that Seattle slop) unless they give up Dom Brown.

    Also, what would be the difference in ERA over a full season between Halladay and Lee? .40? That’s 6 or 7 earned runs over the course of the entire season. So yes, the improvement from Lee to Halladay in 2010 is only marginal.

  • Posts: 0 xfactor

    @The Second John: I don’t want to keep this up — it’s depressing and we need to move on — but prospects don’t amount to a hill of beans next to a Cy Young winning ace who treated the Yankees like a JV squad in the World Series. There just aren’t many guys like Lee around. Even if (and it’s a big if) Gillies becomes an all-star CF, Aumont the next closer and Ramirez a good starter, there’s no guarantee they’ll be ready in time to help the current nucleus.

    No, the Front Office blinked and now the team will have to play much better and be much luckier to win. Not saying they can’t, just saying it will be much harder now. Trust me, the players know. Do you think they’d rather have Lee on the mound or Gillies, Aumont and Ramirez in AA reading? Do you really have to ask?

  • Posts: 0 Greg V.

    I give Lee an 8 and it’s not for lack of being an awe of how great of a pitcher he is. But he had a horrific September where he was getting shelled. Though I’d take a bad September for his amazing performance in the playoffs. A true Phillies legend! Even if he was only on the top a few months!

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    I have rarely ever, if ever, seen the best team in baseball also have the best farm system in baseball. There is a reason for that. We have Gose, Mayberry, Brown, Glavis, Carpenter and more. That would have been without this trade. Of course you try to keep your farm stocked. Why not try this then. Make the Halladay trade and then:

    1. Trade Blanton for a blue chip prospect and a middling prospect. When the arms go down on teams right before the season starts, there would have been a feeding frenzy for a guy like Joe Blanton. Believe it.

    2. Trade Victorino for the prospects. If you needed to, Werth could move to center. It would be an offensive downgrade. You’d need to get a stop gap outfielder. They are not that hard to get.

    And there may be more options but Ruben didn’t have time to think of them because he made these deals with his pants on fire.

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 The Second John

    @griffin: No griffin, it is not a marginal improvement. They traded one year of Cliff Lee for 4 years of Roy Halladay.

    @xfactor: I don’t want to keep this up either. In fact this probably is my last post for today. I am not saying have prospects to come up and help them now. I am saying have prospects to trade and help us if someone gets injured, or under performs

    @Dipsy: 1. You are probably not going to get a blue chip prospect for Blanton. He is a #3 starter at best.

    2. Why do people want to trade Victorino? He led the Phills in hits, and batting average. He is also a gold glove caliber CF, and he is a speed threat.

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