FYI: RAJ is doing a phenomenal job and our Front Office and scouting dept knows more about the Blue Jays and Mariners farm systems than they do bc Gillick has a sustained trust and popularity with those two franchises. They both have new GM’s that are wet behind the ears looking to make moves for appearances.

Another thing nobody talks about: Cliff Lee just pitched 50 more innings this season than any other year in his career. He is prone to “off years” that make Cole Hamels 2009 like downright stellar. Who by the way pitched over 50 innings more than any other year in his career in the 2008 run. See the scary pattern

Also, if we are in the same position in 2010 as in the last 3 yrs come August, those prospects in the Lee deal will come in handy in getting us another starter or some sorely needed bullpen help (which will be a weakness this year). Amaro is really thinking 2 or 3 moves ahead at all times.

It’s funny how practically everyone who posts, no matter what their opinion, qualifies their statements with “of course we’d rather have Lee, too.” Chuck., you say “I think all of us would loved to have had Lee and Halladay for a year.. The excitement of that would have been great for any fan.”,” and in a previous thread, Don M. says “like everyone, (italics mine) I would have LOVED (capitalization yours) to see how that starting rotation would have looked..” But hey, guys, that starting rotation wasn’t just some hypothetical fantasy baseball “Halladay Lincecum Greinke” rotation, it was in our franchise hands, we know that now. It could have been. And according even to many impartial analysts outside the Phillies system, as previously discussed, should have been.

Now, in this thread, again we’re mixing apples and oranges. If the trade wasn’t a salary issue, most would agree an ace like Lee was a bargain at 9M for a year, especially *this* year. If the Lee trade was even partially a salary issue, I’m pretty sure that money-wise the 1 mil Phils saved having 3rd-4th starter Blanton over Lee this year won’t yield $$ for a fix for a bullpen that is pretty much in shambles. We still have essentially only one pitcher (Halladay vs. Lee) that can go full or close-to-full games which doesn’t much help matters there, or necessarily even equal more wins at all. And if Lee was a farm-replenishment deal (which usually seems to be concensus on this forum), it still seems less than ideal given the prospects we got back.

See, I’m still a firm believer in the old adage a proven bird in the pre- and post-season is worth two (or three) in the bush league. No one’s going to convince me that 1) our vastly improving the chance to win the division for the 4th straight year, possibly go to the World Series for three straight years, and maybe even win the World Series for the second time in 3 years could be defined as the Phils “blowing their load,” (Don M.’s words in a diff. thread, definitely not mine) unless I’m somehow missing the point of the game of baseball, 2) losing this chance was worth the magic (sarcasm implied) “bullets” of Gillies, Ramirez, and Aumond right now, this year, on the farm, or 3) that we still won’t be watching Utley, Halladay, – now Victorino (which BTW I sincerely hope doesn’t equal losing Werth) – and a “bunch of scrubs” (from same post from Don M.) even with those magic bullets, after 2011. I know, I know, I need to trust our scouts…

I get backed up on reading these threads at times, so to Don M., I had been meaning to ask you earlier, by your term “watching winning baseball for the next 5 years”, did you mean getting to the post-season? Or having a winning record? Or not being the late-90’s Phils? By which definition do you think these three prospects equals “winning baseball” vs. “losing baseball” going forward? But later you said “I would rather have the middle of the road team, with the chance to make the playoffs and the World Series that I could go to see 10-15 times a year.. instead of a WS winner that I couldn’t afford to ever watch in person.” If you’d rather have a “middle of the road” team (which in my mind by definition implies a very small chance to make the playoffs and the WS) vs. a WS title, we’re in basic philosophical disagreement. Then above Chuck says “there are some on here that would gladly accept 5 or even 10 years of lousy sub .500 baseball for another WS title, ” implying that anything above a losing record for the next 5-10 years is worth a title. You say “fortunately…with what Ruben has done…we won’t have those 5 or 10 years..of lousy sub .500 baseball” AND we have a legitimate shot at that title,” Again, I’m not convinced that Aumont, Gilles, or Ramirez equals not having those 5-10 years, or even that any of them ever makes a decent major league showing let alone makes or breaks a shot at the title. As farm-system prospects, I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think they’re the next Rollins, Utley, Howard.. But again, I know, I know, I need to trust our scouts…

Now in this thread it seems like the entire issue is coming down to ticket prices. Oh please. First of all, I fail to see how the Lee “for prospects not salary” trade affects ticket prices this year. What about the increased ticket sales from sold-out games both when Halladay and when Lee start, or the increase in merchandising from yet another WS winning season. Second, I’d rather sit home a few extra times and watch us win it all again and join in a parade for close to free than sit in the stands with the oh-so-satisfying knowledge that we’ve already restocked the farm in exchange for maybe the one extra player who could have been most instrumental in taking us all the way in the next 5-10 years, and watch us blow the last chance of making it to October in person. And yes, I’m a true fan. My family just never had the money to go to many games, and some of my favorite Phillies games were heard over the transistor radio with Ashburn and the great HK at the mike. Memories of what your team accomplished at those times it was at its best (see “blowing their load”) do (and usually have to) carry you through lots of years of relative mediocrity and rebuilding. I’d say the opportunity to look back at a real dynasty period and possibly a 3rd ring in the process would have made a pretty darn good memory.

But don’t worry, folks, looks like we can look forward to watching us try to be “contenders” again – unfortunately apparently sooner rather than later – all you want in the next 5-10 years and get to tell your kids/grandkids all about the year that actually could have been. If losing a starting rotation like we did to add these particular prospects means the difference between “watching winning baseball in the next 5-10 years” and was truly accomplished by this trade – I just don’t see it. But I must have missed Crystal Ball Promotion Day at CBP, ‘cause I couldn’t afford the tickets.

in Yankee Stadium costs you $80 in advance, $85 on game day

their sections 310 (our equivalent to 210) is $48 advance, $50 game day

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/nyy/ballpark/seating_pricing.jsp

Phillies were able to rebuild this fan base because unlike the Eagles/Flyers, etc … baseball games are “affordable”

its also nice that they play 81 home games.. but payroll in baseball is a lot higher than the other sports too

That’s nice to do once in awhile…spend $60 on a really good seat..

And the $30 and $40 seats are fine too…

But those really cheap seats suck….and it’s not all that fun being there if you can’t see sh!t.

People in NY can afford to do that an Yankee stadium.. but “real fans” are being priced out.

I usually get to 10-15 games a year.. without a ticket plan

So conservatively, I would say I spend $1,000 on the Phillies every year …. not counting years I’ve traveled to Boston, Chicago, etc. to go see them on the road

For $1,000 I could also go on an All-Inclusive vacation somewhere… or get in a shore house, etc .. . . If the Phillies became more expensive than they currently are.. Im pretty sure I would have a better tan from doing those other things instead of trying to see the Phillies in person a bunch of times every year

makes it worth the parking..

Im just giving the realistics of it … of course there are times when I go down and don’t buy concessions, dont bring the wifey, etc..

But those $15 seats suck.. and its a better view to stay at home and watch on TV

2 x 15 = 30.

If you live around the city take public transportation, but if you have to take the car, park far away and walk it. Parking = 0

A game lasts three hours. With the commute, call it 4 1/2. Maybe you could have a big meal before the game? Or if you have to eat, bring a napsack with some chips, or better yet, energy bars. I think they let you in with bottled water. Thats $5 at the Wawa.

So right now we are at $35.

Lets leave $15 for miscellaneous stuff that I can’t think of right now. Now that’s $50. Some would consider that a great value. I think that the problem here may lie in the fact that, not only do you wanna see a baseball game, but you also wanna do it in the lap of luxury. My advice: Downsize it a bit. I sense that there is an unwillingness on your part to move from one of the sections that “you like” to one that is more cost efficient. Have a few beers before the game.

I think you will find that that if you follow my suggestions and do the numbers, that you will able to got to almost 3 games for your cost of going to 1. Think about it and don’t be so selfish

The Dipsy

Happy to see Aumont and Gillies on this somewhat “ho-hum” list. A few players I’m excited about: Jon Singleton, Trevor May and Freddy Galvis… gonna miss Taylor/Drabek but I’m sure the Doc will have the right prescription for my heartache.

Fortunately…with what Ruben has done…we won’t have those 5 or 10 years…AND we have a legitimate shot at that title.

True.. lets take an average ticket, sections I like are:
210 = $33
315 = $34

so If I take the wife to a game… its $66-68 just for tickets… before that nice little service charge, etc .. so we’ll say $75 .. parking will be up again, probably $15, but for this arugment, we’ll call it $10

$85 so far… $7 beers, $5 sodas.. we’ll say we each have one of each.. that’s another $24 …. Chicken Fingers & Fries $7.50 … a Hot Dog and Pretzel $7.50 …

$85 + 24 + 15 = $125 ish …. for a baseball game

Yea.. I worry about not being able to go to a lot of games if the prices keep going up

…
People act like the Phillies pulled a Rolen-trade here… They didn’t abandon a star, and kill any chance of a winning team in the process. They had to empty their farm system to get Roy Halladay… and they tried to get some prospects back BECAUSE they want to keep winning

a 2010 World Series title doesn’t mean jacksh!t if we would be a sub.500 team for the next 5-10 years after that … they are trying to make sure that doesn’t happen