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Phillies Swap Arbitration Figures

Posted by Paul Boye, Tue, January 19, 2010 05:06 PM | Comments: 128
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The report has come in from CSN Philly’s Jim Salisbury, and the three remaining arbitration-eligible Phillies have let their demands be known. The team has also submitted its proposed figures for each player.

There is still plenty of time for one-year or even multi-year deals to be worked out before hearings begin in February, something Salisbury says the Phils are looking to accomplish with Victorino above all others.

Here are the reported figures exchanged:

Joe Blanton, SP: $10.25 million. Team offers $7.5 million.

Carlos Ruiz, C: $2.5 million. Team offers $1.7 million.

Shane Victorino, CF: $5.8 million. Team offers $4.75 million.

What do you think? Is Blanton asking too much? Is now the time to work on multi-year deals for Ruiz and Victorino, or even Blanton?

UPDATE (Wednesday, 8:00 PM): MLB.com’s Todd Zolecki reports that contract talks have begun for all three of the remaining arbitration-eligible players. Both one-year and multi-year deals are reportedly in the works, but details are unclear as to what length each player is discussing.

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  • Posts: 0 JeffR

    Yeah, Blanton was so good we had no confidence to even use him in the post-season rotation. He was only an option of last resort because they wouldn’t pitch Lee on 3 days’ rest and thought Happ was better in the bullpen.

     
  • Posts: 0 Sgt.Schmidt

    Shag Beta Sigma:

    You asked a question reguarding whether Blanton or the Phils have to accept either one of the deals of $10.25 or the $7.5

    The way it works is like this….Blanton requested $10.25 this season, and the Phillies countered back with ”We’ll come to an agreement right now if you accept this $7.5”. Now if Blanton doesn’t accept the $7.5, or if they dont come to an agreement then he will have to take the Phillies to an arbitration hearing. In the Arbitrartion hearing a panel of arbitrartion officers or judges (whatever you like to call them) will evaluate and appraise Blantons value. What the Arbitrators say his value is, is set in stone, and either the Phils or Blanton have to bend a little to come to an agreement.

    Blanton is trying to break the bank here, but I have to be honest…When its all said and done I can see Blanton getting around 8.5. If he wins the arbitrartion hearing, and he sticks to his number, the Phils let him walk.

     
  • Posts: 0 Brian Sr. of CO

    Blanton has lost his mind. He will definately not win his arbitration case. They have to choose one of the two, unless they agree before it gets to the hearing. Ryan Howard won his case for 10 Mil in 08 prior to signing a deal, and Lincecum is asking for 13 Mil from the Giants. If you think Blanton will earn mroe money through arbitration that Ryan Howard, you are insane, just as Blanton is. Lincecum on the other hand has the best shot of anyone to win their case.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Sgt Schmidt – WRONG!

    ONE arbitrator hears the case and MUST pick Blanton’s figure or the teams figure. End of story. In the meantime, the parties are welcome to work on an agreement.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    The Freak can walk into his arbitration hearing in which he requested 13 mil and plant two Cy Young’s on the table to state his case for him.

    Joe Blanton is going to walk into his arbitration hearing in which he asked for 10.25 mil, and plant nothing on the table because he individually has won nothing…and he expects to win?

    I can understand shooting high in hopes of catching a break, but I think he screwed himself. No arbitrator in their right mind is going to award Blanton 10.25 when guys like Howard get 10 mil, and i don’t know, win a ROY and MVP in consecutive seasons.

    Come on now Joe, you must have hung out with Brett Myers too much because this is just plain dumb.

     
  • Posts: 0 psujoe

    Blanton’s agent is nuts. How about Gagne getting a try out. you never know.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    I just read that. I’d give him a shot. Pretty sure he blows now since he isn’t on the juice but you never know. He had a bit of a revival in Texas a few years ago, then he was traded to the Red Sox and it all blew up. He seems like one of those guys who can only be a closer.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    So was reading Lookout Landing which is an SBNation blog for the Mariners, in that they had a link to a rather hilarious picture that was put together at the Met’s SBNation blog Amazin Avenue. At this point, even Met’s fan’s are making fun of their team.

    Enjoy:

    http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/273344/flowchart1.png

     
  • Posts: 0 Manny

    Phillies should try and settle with Blanton before arbitration as long as the figure is below 8MM, in my opinion (way below the midpoint). Anything above that, and they should be better off going into the hearing.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    See I wouldn’t even try and settle. No way Blanton will win his case. And since there is no in between in arbitration then the Phillies will win and Blanton will get something much closer to what he deserves in the 7.5 mil the team offered.

     
  • Posts: 0 George

    mikemike is more annoying than the Yankees trolls, because at least those trolls make no claims of being Phils fans. mikemike does. Still, though, he has absolutely nothing good to say about the team and is very ill-informed. When he’s debated, he calls those people debating him stupid, crazy, and any other names he can think of, instead of offering legitimate arguments.

    I will still argue that the front office made the right decision to trade Lee and keep Blanton. Blanton wouldn’t have brought any decent prospects and the team needed those. If mikemike had his way, the Phils would maybe be better this year, but would have nothing after that, and no real way except spending like drunken sailors to get anybody.

    Sure, I’d rather have Lee than Blanton. But Blanton HAS been underrated; he’s not worth $10.25 million, but he’s worth more than most #3 starters, and worth more than some of the money people like Wolf, Penny, and Marquis have already gotten.

    Also, if anyone thinks a first round prospect and a sandwich pick for Lee would be better, as high as the Phils have been placing, any picks would be way down in the order anyway. And if Lee were signed by a low finisher, they wouldn’t even get a first rounder.

    And think about this: Blanton was tied for the team lead in wins in 2009, and came in second in starter’s ERA. He could therefore be considered our #2.

    Lee’s contract was signed when starters weren’t being paid as much, so he was a bargain. As a bargain, the front office was able to get more for him. That’s no longer true. If the Phils chose to replace Blanton’s wins, ERA, and particularly his innings pitched, they’d be hard pressed to do it for anything less than they’ve offered Blanton.

     
  • Posts: 0 George

    I think the Phils should at least make an effort to sign Big Joe. Otherwise, when he loses in arbitration, he might turn into a surly sourpuss and clubhouse pariah. I don’t think they should try very hard, though.

    Concerning Gagne, you LOOK at everybody with stats like his. That doesn’t mean you sign them. He’s probably a dud, but still, you look, in case he has something left.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    Well Gagne did say he was willing to accept a non guaranteed minor league contract, if that’s the case I would sign him in a heart beat. If he sucks then cut him.

    As for Blanton, even if he lost his arbitration hearing, and he will if it gets there, I can’t see him developing a bad attitude. He seems like too much of a club house guy for that.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Let’s not open up this whole “Lee” thing again…he was traded…we got some decent prospects…MORE than Blanton would have attracted….so that’s it..

    I do think Blanton …if he continues to pitch like he has…with his age (under 30)…he will get $10 mil at some point….but not this time…

    I don’t think he’s the kind of guy that will “turn into a surly sourpuss and clubhouse pariah.”…he’ll lose…but still will get a raise….who knows maybe the Phillies can work out a reasonable deal for him…which would be fine..

    —–

    To comment about what someone earlier said about Brown taking over for Werth….I think it’s more likely that he takes over for Ibanez….hopefully the Phillies work out something with Werth..

    if it comes down to whether they have to choose to keep Werth or Vic…I still think it should be Werth…he’s more versatile.

    But who knows …maybe Vic’s numbers are lower than we all thought originally…and maybe Werth can be convinced of that 4/45 contract that was mentioned the other day..

    That way we keep both…

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    They made Blanton available at the Winter Meetings.. and nobody wanted him because they knew he would make about $7.5M this year.. and then as a Free Agent, he’ll commaned somewhere around $10 M per season

    the other guy that we traded was to save some money …AND… to bring in some prospects

    MIKEMIKE… to answer your question, the difference between $7.5 or 8 Million,
    and Lee’s $9 M …. is $1.0 to $1.5 M

    the kind of extra cash that makes a difference when trying to add extra arms to your pitching staff

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    Ahh the business of baseball… that 2/$11 contact looks pretty good but I still doubt Vic would take it. Next year seems to be the year that Vic-type players get their biggest raises… the year before entering free agency. So he’ll likely settle for something in the $5.5 million range but I would expect him to clear $7 million next year.

    Chooch should settle as well…

    I was worried about Blanton… that one’s probably going to arbitration. Knee jerk is that he’s not worth it but you have to look at comparable situations… it’s tough to find an exact comparison but if you look at guys like Pineiro, Bedard and Jon Garland, none of those guys made over $7.75 million prior to free agency. Blanton is different because he has proven to be one of the most dependable pitchers in baseball. His numbers don’t blow you away but he eats innings and stays healthy… I think he compares well with Vicente Padilla but I don’t know which year he aligns with. At age 29, Padilla was making $9 million but he had been in the big leagues since he was 21… Joe debuted at age 23.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Blanton was right to ask for $10 M ….. that’s what Free Agent pitchers with his experience and skill set would get

    no he’s not a Free Agent.. but he’s god a decent shot at settling for more than the projected $7.5 M … and even if he goes to arbitration, and losses… he still wins

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    I think that $7.5 million is reasonable for Joe… that number seems really high. The Phillies probably could have went to the table with $6.75 million and won… the arbitrator has to figure out which number is more reflective of the services provided and go with that one. Joe has not put in enough years of service to make $10 million. In the end, maybe Joe’s just trying to get the Phils to budge from that $7.5 million number. Maybe he thinks that anything above $7.5 million is gravy… Joe should be prepared to take $7.5 million (a $2 million raise) and be happy.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Someone on the other thread referred to Joe as a “greedy pig”….for asking for that much.

    I look at it as just shooting high…and expecting to get shot down…but still getting a nice raise…

    It’s called “negotiating”….and anybody would be stupid not to do it..whether it’s with baseball negotiations, selling a house, whatever..

     
  • Posts: 0 mikemike

    Don this is the point I have tried to make. The phillies had two pitchers, Blanton at 5.5 who would get a raise, and lee at 9 million. If they dont offer arb to blanton let him walk for less or a little more you have lee, maybe even cheaper if blanton wins his case he gets 10 million, the phillies didnt have to offer arb, amaro screw up. Two when we talk about prospects the kids they got for lee arent top flight prospects, aumont was but he has a hip condition, you know I follow the minors, gillies has speed, hit in a hitter league a 26 round choice has some upside but we have four kids like him now in the minors, the other kid is raw, point to be made here let blanton walk no big deal, keep lee, he walks next year take the 9 million and put it into the draft, there are a lot of kids who want money to skip college and will sign and be fast track, Case in point porcello got 7 million out of high school. Detroit has him starting at 20 years old. to george I know how the phillies scouts, you mention utley, hamels, ruiz, utley had no choice but to sign, hamels was pass by teams because of medical condition and attitude, he panned out so far ,but other like him havent case in point Salvery same type cant hit 90 on gun but the kid taken after him porcello who got 7 million is starting alllready, ruiz is one of there cheap signs who is pretty good do y know how many kids they take cheap everyear out of dominian republic, so they hit on one in the last ten years and he isnt a allstar. if you want to debate the minors anytime its my passion, howard was a good chance to take. had big hole in his swing ,just like mayberry who cant play, but remember each year they take 35 kids and if you dont hit on some that is horrible. remember hamels , utley rollins all high choices, victorino they tried to give back and dodgers said no. So you want to call me names thats fine but I follow all aspect of the team and hate this lee move, reminds me of when giles tried to be a gm and trade bowa because of fight between them for Sanberg and shortstop cant remeber his name they got taken, or the schilling trade, schilling had one and half years left on contract, was a number one starter and they took lee a first one bust, a 39 year old 19 game loser, a 35 year old reliever and a drunk padilla for a stud starter a guy who could win you a pennant. As a fan I dont have to kiss there ass when they do stupid moves, like this after all the extra revenue they have taken in the last three years.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    mikemike…

    So you think that with “all the extra revenue they have taken in the last three years” that they should just “blow off” the budget??

    Cause that’s sort of what you are insinuating..

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Cardinals are said to be looking into Chien Ming Wang … he’ll be FILTHY after working with Dave Duncan (of Duncan is still their pitching coach???)

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    According to the Cardinals’ website…Dave Duncan is still the pitching coach…the guy’s a magician.

     
  • Posts: 0 mikemike

    chuck what are y talking about. I said its either 1.5 million more or less lee versu blanton. in Fact blanton can wind up getting more than lee this year. how is that blowing bugject, just like don said 1.5 could do more , this is a two time pennant and one time world series champ. to go over budject to keep lee , of 1.5 isnt it worth it??

     
  • Posts: 0 psujoe

    The good news is the Phils have to be thinking they’ll pay Blanton less than previously thought since they’ll get thier number.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Blanton won’t get more than Lee this year….

    And Lee was traded for prospects…three of them….Blanton would not have fetched that…if he could have…Lee would be here and Joe would be gone..

    But you made the comment about “all the extra revenue” …as if the Phillies are just rolling in the dough…and can afford to do anything..

    We bettered our team…and now have that approximate 1.5 mil to spend on relievers…those “oh by the way type of players” ….the Scott Eyres of the world…guys you can get for cheap….and that can make a big difference.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    I fully understand the frustration of Blanton at $7.5 M

    vs. thefishthatgotaway for $9 M


    But I don’t understand how people still fail to see their reasoning behind the move.. After the 2010 season, both of those pitchers were going to walk

    So instead of 4 Draft Picks.. we get 3 propsects (two of them pretty highly regarded) plus 2 Draft Picks.

    The Phillies were looking to their future, and realized that they needed some bullets still in the 2012-and beyond Chamber … instead of blowing their load in 2010, and then having a team with Highly Priced Utley, Halladay… with a field of scrubs all around them

    There is no perfect scenario . . .like everyone, I would have LOVED to see how that Starting Rotation would have looked … but unlike most, I stopped dreaming about that the moment Lee got traded

    We’re still the best team in the National League . . .we would’ve had a better chance to win the World Series with Lee, but now we still have very good chance.. AND a better chance at watching winning baseball for the next 5 years

    the teams of the late 90′s were HORRIBLE.. yet we still watched, because we’re Phillies fans. I will watch no matter what.. but I’d rather see us be competitive, than to see us SELL OUT.. out-price the true fans with a sky high payroll, and ticket prices, etc. . .

    so I understand people’s frustrations.. but the good outweighs the bad with the Phillies decisions.. and its really not even close

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Dear Fellow Fans:

    I think this site is fully of very passionate and informed Phillie fans (with the occasional boner). I appreciate the fact that two reasonably minded people can have two differing points of view. The thing I can’t quite comprehend is why everyone DOESN’T UNDERSTAND THAT THE PHILLIES ARE FILHTY RICH! Stop it. If they wanna keep to a budget, that’s they’re prerogative. What insults me is when they tell us that if they don’t keep to the budget they lose money. Thats laughable. The same holds true for 3/4 of the teams in the league. The Phillies budget could be $200m and they would still rake in a sweet profit. How do I know? Because I have two eyes and a rudimentary understanding of basic math. No more is required.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    If the budget was $200 million….most of us wouldn’t be able to afford to go to games..

    Because tickets, beer, hot dogs …and everything else would be something that only the “filthy rich” could pay for.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    WRONG. You assume that they profits you guys THINK they are missing out on by having a high payroll will so PROFOUNDLY affect the bottom, that the team would have to price the little guy out by jacking up ticket prices, parking, etc. Not the case. Thats how much money I believe they make.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    How can you raise the payroll by $60 million ….and NOT have it profoundly affect the bottom??

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    If they raise the payroll.. they’ll raise ticket prices and concession prices, etc..

    no business owners will intentionally LOSE money.. that would be idiotic

    Im very happy with the way things are working with the Phillies now.. I guess some people still want more

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Every other team has done it….

    Raising payroll…goes hand-in-hand with raising ticket prices..

     
  • Posts: 0 shag beta sigma delta

    I too like to be able to get my Sunday Package at a real reasonable price. I have to drive down from VT take a day or two off work and drive back. So if I had to pay $50 a ticket to sit in sect. 417 I would not be able to do that and it would suck. So I like the idea of staying inside some budget constraints, yes the front office has to be better to do that, how hard is it to be Yankee or Red Sox GM and be able to buy anyone you want.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    thats why when Brian Cashman or Theo Epstein gets praised.. I go crazy

    and how Omar Minaya still has a job is beyond me

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    If Minaya’s not canned by the end of this year…I’ll be shocked!!

     
  • Posts: 0 JeffS

    Everyone assuming that the 7.5 number will win is missing two points, I think. First, mediocre FA pitchers are getting crazy big numbers this year so far. Although that’s not determinative in arb, it could influence the mindset of arbitrators with regard to pitching. Second, I think Joe has the same agent who (a) set the record for an arb number with Ryan Howard (and a lot of us thought that number was a stretch, also, based on service time, notwithstanding Ryan’s accomplishments), and (b) in doing so won an arb case against the Phils, which no other agent had been doing.

    I’m not saying Joe’s # is a good one, but I would put his odds of winning (if it gets that far) well above 0%. Nowhere close to 50%, but not impossible. Enough of a chance that I wouldn’t be as cocky about it as many are sounding. If Blanton’s agent somehow pulls this one off, mikemike’s argument looks a little different.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    If Joe Blanton wins…and gets $10 MM THIS year….the God help us all..

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    I fully expect them to settle.. because Blanton has to know that his odds of “winning” at $10 + Million aren’t that great..

    so he should try to settle at $7.75 – $8 M

    Then he’s still no losing $250,000 – $500,000 … anything over the $7.5 is just extra, on top of an already nice salary

    I really can’t see this case going to arbitration.. but its just him giving it a shot at more money

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    “The Phillies budget could be $200m and they would still rake in a sweet profit. How do I know? Because I have two eyes and a rudimentary understanding of basic math. No more is required.”

    No offense… but I would think that computing and comprehending the P&L of a major league franchise that shares revenues requires more than a rudimentary understanding of basic math.

    Forbes did a report in 2009 detailing francise values… the Phillies were the 7th ranked franchise in terms of value. Their net operating income (essentially, profit before interest, taxes, depreciation amortization) was 18th at $16 million. So before the accountants push their pencils around and Uncle Sam takes his cut, it looks like they’re in the black about $16 million… but taxes have a huge impact so… Franchise value doesn’t mean a thing unless the team sells… the Marlins reported the highest net operating income ($43.7 million) followed by the Natinals; both beneficiaries of revenue sharing.

    Interestingly, the Yankees were one of two teams that reported a net loss (Detroit being the other) and their overall debt/value ratio is 95% (meaning they have total debts of 95% of their enterprise value)… not sure how healthy that is but I guess the folks in New York are happy.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    I have to take exception to the notion that the Phillies are filthy rich or whatever term was used earlier.

    There is a reason that 99% of the owners or owner of pro sports teams also own other businesses besides their pro team. It’s not because they enjoy working, maybe some of them do. Or because they want to own as much as possible. Maybe some of them do.

    It’s because they need the money generated from those other business ventures to fund their pro sports teams. It’s almost impossible to own a pro franchise and expect that franchise alone to make you enough money so that you can sustain owning it. Even guys like Jerry Jones own other businesses.

    Take Drayton McClane, he is trying to sell the Astros because he can not afford to keep them. His other businesses are losing money and thus he does not have the money to invest in the Astros that he needs, so consequently, they are losing money. And he has to sell.

    Or look at Fred Wilpon, he was scammed out of millions of dollars by Bernie Madoff. The Met’s weren’t scammed. Wilpon and his other legit business holdings were scammed and so consequently he does not have the money he needs to fund his baseball team and team and thus may have to sell.

    Yes pro sports team’s make a ton of money, no doubt about it. Between ticket sales, parking, concessions, merchandise etc. They make money hand over fist. But making money does not mean you make all kinds of profit. When you subtract out the taxes that are taken out on that team for what they make, as well as salaries for the players, for the employees of the team including the stadium workers, the O.T that is paid to the cops and security guards. Whatever money they are paying back to the bank for the stadium that was built since they didn’t pay for it all on their own. You are not left with much money.

    Teams that make huge bank, teams like the Yankees do so because of their huge TV deal.

    If pro owners made all kinds of money then why would they sell their teams? If owning a sports team is some great cash cow then why turn that kind of money away? Owners don’t really make money on their team until they sell it. A teams value will appreciate as time goes on. If you run the organization well, and you are fortunate enough to have a successful franchise on the field/court/rink whatever, then your team will be worth more money when you go to sell it. Even the Pirates who have not been good in 20 years will sell for more today then whatever their previous owner/owners paid to buy them when they did.

    I am not saying that owners don’t make some money out of this on a year to year basis. They do. But it isn’t much. Not in the grand scheme of things. But to act like the owners have some vault where they keep their millions because they don’t want to put it back in the team is inaccurate.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    It’s great to be sitting here….saying the Phillies should do this…should spend that….acting like the money is just flowing all over the place….

    …Just because the perception is that they must be “filthy rich”…because of all the sellouts, etc, etc…

    But we all really don’t know what it takes to operate a big league franchise…evrything that’s involved..

    All I know is that the Phillies have given me something of value…a competitive team…a winning team….and a team that’s most likely going to be both of those…competitive AND winning….for probably the next five years or so…at a REASONABLE price.

    For my entertainment dollar…I can’t really ask more of them.

     
  • Posts: 0 WFC010

    Theo Epstein deserves praise because he’s a smart guy, who does have a lot of money available to spend, but he tends to spend it wisely, and is willing to let some jackass walk if they are asking for too much. You can have a huge budget all you want, but it won’t mean jack if you aren’t putting it towards the right players. Even the Red Sox have a budget, even if it’s larger than ours. Also the Phillies aren’t exactly poor or small budgeted anymore either, but I do agree that Amaro does have to be more creative and resourceful, when he doesn’t have Yankees money. Personally, I feel he’s doing a fine job for us so far.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    Nice post Ed…

    There were plenty of years when the Phillies reported a net loss… can’t blame ownership for setting a budget.

    If you look at 2008 revenues as a baseline for 2010 (2009 revenues were down across MLB but ours probably remained the same), the Phillies total revenues were $216 million… if you subtract out 2008 payroll and the $16 million in net income, that tells me that the non-payroll costs were $72 million.

    So for 2010, let’s be generous and assume a 2% increase in revenue ($220 million). We know that payroll is right around $141 million right now… if those “fixed” non-payroll costs remain at $72 million, that would bring net income to 8 million less any excess revenue sharing, less any roster additions… that’s not hand-over-foot money.

    Thought this was funny and interesting… starting this year, the Mets will pay Bobby Bonilla $1.19 million in deferred money every July 1st until 2035.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    Thanks Chuck P.

    It’s funny because when I hit submit and the page refreshed I saw that you posted and so I read it and was like, well isn’t this just nice. He pretty much said exactly what I did but with numbers, even better. Well done.

    As for your factoid about Bonilla…this is awful and hilarious at the same time. The guy will get 1.19 mil for the next 25 years and not have to do a darn thing for it. I almost, feel like feeling bad for the Mets. But alas, I don’t feel bad. Suckers.

     
  • Posts: 0 JeffS

    Don M,

    The only reason I can picture Joe going to arb (also a small chance) is because of who his agent is. Crazy like a fox, though. He made the difference big enough that no matter how small the chance of winning is, the difference is an actual budget issue for the Phils. Therefore, he’ll be able to pull his settlement # up because the Phils probably don’t want to handle that big of an arb risk in dollar amount this year, no matter how small their chance of losing.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    I did not know that about Bonilla…fascinating!!

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    Numbers aren’t everything, Ed… you said a lot of the things that I wanted to say. Revenues don’t mean anything… owning a franchise is not a slam dunk by any means.

    I don’t think that buying a franchise, especially a successful one, is a good investment (simple premise: don’t buy high)… on paper, the Phillies are valued at $496 million… but that’s only the value if someone is willing to pay that much. I doubt that there would be much of a market right now… it’s not all that profitable ($16 million in profit per year is the equivalent of a 3% return), it’s illiquid and it comes with a lot of pressure. But for that guy that dreams of owning his own team (think Mark Cuban), it’s worth it no matter what the financials say.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Where does Forbes get the figures to report in their magazine? The teams….thats who. Look, its very simple. If the teams were barely getting by they would open their books and show everyone what they actually make. But they don’t. Why? Because if everyone knew how much the teams made and HOW they make it, the fans and players would go absolutely apeshit. Net income? Don’t make me laugh. The money that these teams make goes right back into asset, i.e. the team. Thats is why the Phillies are now worth $500,000,000 and the owners can collateralize their share of the team to the hilt. I am sure the Mets, Yankees, Braves, and every other team that owns their own network does not disclose THAT profit. The Phillies gorge themselves on concessions and merchandising. How much money do you think the Phils make on a sellout crowd on a hot Sunday in food and hats and shirts and ribs and cheesesteaks and ice cream and BEER, and the list goes on. It boggles the mind. Yes, I do believe that baseball teams make a shitload more in “shadow” revenue, using the parlance of our times, that is reported as something other than what it is. These fellows are nothing if not creative. And I would be doing the EXACT same thing if I were them. While we’re at it, someone please show me a baseball team that actually went bankrupt.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    I am back after my hiatus from thinking about baseball….to review…

    DONT JACK UP THE Prices ANYMORE…I agree

    Manchester United is hundreds of millions of dollars in the red and they make bank…The Philles will NOT go into the red that much…

    I want to be able to go to the games…you cant feel like youre a part of something if all you do is watch on TV…thats why I CARE LESS about the Eagles. Thats why I casually follow the Flyers (3 games a year in person is all I can afford)..

    With this team, its about 12 games a year…if it gets any worse then Ill just cut down how much I go, and thus be less enthusiastic about the team…

    They WILL stay within their limits and they will be fine…

    Theyre trying to sign a deal with Victorino for a few more years I heard….Blanton wants too much…but he IS valuable…Werth is gone after this year…..Ruiz is an easier deal to make…

     
 
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