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Amaro Tabs Moyer as 5th Starter

Posted by Amanda Orr, Tue, February 09, 2010 06:27 PM | Comments: 115
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General Manager Ruben Amaro Jr. told Fox 29 News that Jamie Moyer will be the fifth starter headed into spring training.

Moyer, who had two surgeries this off-season, told Amaro that he would be ready to pitch once the season starts.

“It’s his spot to lose,” Amaro also said.  If Moyer is unable to keep his job, Kyle Kendrick, Andrew Carpenter, or another minor leaguer could win the job.  Moyer, 47, is in his last year of his contract.

If your still thinking about how awesome the Phillies rotation would be with Cliff Lee, then you should know that Lee just had minor surgery on his foot.  Lee should not miss a significant amount of time, however.

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Amanda Orr has written 713 articles on Phillies Nation.

Amanda has been writing for Phillies Nation since 2009.

 
 
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    The cutter would totally be sweet. If he could throw that then he would be golden. Wow, this is a lot of snow. I read the baseball info in the Daily News today and it said that Roy is already working out a Bright House. He gets there at 7am and stays for 3 or 4 hours, five days a week. If I’m a Phils pitcher, I get right down there and work out right along side with him. Cole? Hello? Put those eye brow tweezers down and jump a plane to Clearwater!

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Exactly, Dipsy…take advantage of working alongside one of the best pitchers of this era. He (Cole) could learn a lot.

    ___

    I read some of the earlier posts…figures Jeff would lead this whole thing off with “the Phillies will be horrible after Doc.”

    And Bill saying that Blanton is a “bum.”

    You guys need therapy.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Second John

    It wasn’t really surprising Cole had a “down” year. He threw about double the innings than the year before. It just proves the Verducci effect. Also, he obviously needs to get a better curveball. Make the pitch at least just serviceable.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Hey Second John. You keep saying that. So he threw 272 innings in 08? Whupdee. All starters that make it to the Series throw that many. So what? I think making commercials and making babies had more to do with it.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 jrollpatrol08

    yea im confident cole will return to form. as a young pitcher with experience with the curve ball, i see him tweaking and refining that pitch rather than trying out something totally new. and if you look at 08, the pitch was effective. im not saying it was the best in the game, but he threw it with enough confidence and command to at least keep MLB hitters guessing. even with an average curveball, hitters still have to figure that into the swings they take.

     
  • Posts: 0 jrollpatrol08

    i think what john meant was that he did it so early in his career. that definitely makes a difference

     
  • Posts: 0 The Second John

    I agree that the lack of preparation had a lot to do with it, but a lot of pitchers struggle after they had success early in their careers. Here are some examples.

    Cliff Lee: 5.43 ERA in his third year in the majors
    Roy Halladay: 10.49 ERA after he threw 149 innings in the majors just his second year.
    Chad Billingsley: had a 51 inning increase and he had a 4.03 era, which was up from the 3.14 era he posted the year before.
    Justin Verlander: He posted a 4.84 era after the year he threw 201 innings.

    btw, I might be wrong, but didn’t Cole Hamels have his baby in the post-season?

     
  • Posts: 0 bfo_33

    There was a lefty starter who pitched for the Phils a while ago, his name escapes me. I think he did ok with only two pitches, even won a CY young (or 4). Would a cutter or an improved curveball help Hamels? Sure. Does he “need” it? no.
    Dipsy, once or twice is funny, but you are starting to sound like a homophobe. The 2nd John keeps bringing it up because it is true – he’s still a kid, pitched a ton in 2008, had great success, hit the banquet circuit, didn’t have a good off-season routine, and had an off year. I expect him to have a great year in 2010. He dealt with great success as well as an upset fanbase in just over a year – probably figured out that success is more fun, and will be pitching behind an incredible competitor whose pitching style couldn’t be more different. I wouldn’t get the Cy Young engraved yet, but he’ll be a great number 2 pitcher, more mature, and on his way to a staff ace (and his 2nd ring).

     
  • Posts: 0 bfo_33

    Interesting article from Dave Cameron at Fangraphs on opposite field power. An excerpt:

    I can’t end without giving a nod to Ryan Howard, however. The big Phillies slugger is known for his opposite field moonshots, and the numbers bear this out. Here’s Howard’s breakdown.

    To Left: .701 (!!!)
    To Center: .480
    To Right: .327

    Ryan Howard’s slugging percentage on fly balls to left field is a staggering 1.138. That’s not his OPS – that’s his SLG. 71% of all of his balls in play to left field are fly balls, and 27 percent of those leave the yard. You may remember from yesterday that the league average HR/FB for a lefty to left field was 3%. Howard’s HR/FB to left is nine times the league average.

    We don’t have the historical evidence to prove it, of course, but I’d wager that Ryan Howard may just be the greatest opposite field power hitter in the history of the game.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    All indicators pointed to Cole having an off year..There are too many instances historically that prove that…..(good examples, Second John).

     
  • Posts: 0 Johnny

    Terrible. There at least should be an open competition.

     
  • Posts: 0 shag beta sigma delta

    I get it that is Jamie’s spot to lose, why is it such a big deal? The guy did have 12 wins last year before he was sent to the bull pen. He also had some good long outings out of the Pen if I remember correctly. Give him his shot as the the #5 guy, if it does not work out send him to the pen where he can come in a pitch 3,4,or 5 inning in relief when a starter is having a bad day, so you do not burn out all you bull pen pitchers. There is no way he lose 15 games, but if he wins 12 from the #5 spot I would take that. Doc gets 22 wins, Hamels 15-18 wins, Big Joe 13-15 wins, Happ 12-14 wins and 12-14 wins out of the #5 spot that would be pretty good starting pitching IMO.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Many more good pitchers DON’T have early career slumps than do. Now, would you like me to go thru the list of guys that didn’t have one? It would be 10 to 1. That said, while I do believe that all those innings was an adjustment for Cole, It appears that he could have done more in the off season. I know some players do take their talent for granted at a young age. While not OK, its almost understandable. I just hope it doesn’t happen again, thats all. Cole, next time you wanna pick up a doob, pick up a barbell instead, knowwhatImsayin? bfo – Lemme guess….uhhhh…hold on. Wayne Twitchell??? While his best pitch and out pitch was his slider, Steve Carlton had a battery of pitches to choose from. Some of you guys need to sit down and watch a “Recent History of the Phillies” educational video for god’s sake. And I’m not even old.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 shag beta sigma delta

    I watched Carlton pitch Live at the Vet. and I would not say Steve had a Battery of pitches in his arsenal. He did throw mostly fastball, slider, but he did have more than 2 pitches. He was a classic power guy. He never had the options of Maddox. Don’t get your panties in a bunch now, I am not saying Maddox was a better pitcher he wasn’t IMO not even close. But he did have more variety of pitches

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Carlton had a LEGIT curve. In fact, he was a fastball/curve guy and didn’t have the success he did until he went to the slider, which he could change speeds on.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    As I recall.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 shag beta sigma delta

    I remember in 71 72 73 his slider was his out pitch and was devistating, and yes he did have a curve ball that was legit, that was my point. I agree with you that you need more than two pitches, but if you have two dominant pitches and an average to above 3rd you can be great. I was just splitting hairs with your choice of words about Carlton’s options of pitches.

     
  • Posts: 0 shag beta sigma delta

    And yes he had different speeds on the slider, and if Cole could come up with a cutter or split finger so his fast ball changes speeds that could be all he needs. So his range would go from low 90′s to 65 to 85. and that might be enough for him to dominate

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    I totally agree, shmeg. A cutter. My kingdom for a cutter. I think thats all he needs.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed 2

    “…heading into spring training” does not sound like the be all, end all vote of confidence that comes with a rotation slot. Im sure this is a political move by the front office. Moyer was given a promise to start, the same type of promise that was given to Chan Ho Park last year. The Phils do their business with the long lost art of integrity; they give their word and it means something. That being said, im sure his leash is not very long and each potential 5th starter will be given an equal shake in proving their worth. Say what you want about Park during the first few weeks of the season, but he earned the job in Spring Training. If Moyer isn’t cutting it, Kendrick and Ko. will be ready to jump in.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed 2

    And the Verducci Effect is damn near a scientific truth at this point, just like 380 carry running backs (380 carries for a running back? Andy Reid is just laughing).

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew

    I like Moyer. He deserves to go into spring training as the 5th starter. Let him lose the job. I dont care if his era is 8 if he has another winning record please shut up people I do not care if he throws junk and doesnt have good K ratios. He has a 47- 31 record in 3 + years here.
    Maybe we should hope the wonder boy Hamels comes out of his cry baby stooper.
    Cliff lee? I have forgotten him already the rest of you need to do that too.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    So, let him be the fifth starter……just because. I guess. Cuz he’s nice? Or cute? Or a real gamer?

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew

    by the way Hamels has a lower wining percentage the last 4 years.
    I know its just all that bad luck Cole has and how lucky moyer is. Hamels has exactly 1 more win and 3 more loses.
    You play to win the game I thought. Or some play to have better WHIP and opponents batting average statistics i guess.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    OK….great. Than if YOU were managing, the rotation would be: Halladay, Moyer, Hamels, Blanton, Happ, correct? You would put Halladay in front of Moyer, right?

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 mikemike

    If Hamels doesnt come back ,cant see us winning,,I believe the braves are much better, mets suck, national suck, but the braves have a good rotation. so moyer fifth means nothing

     
  • Posts: 0 The Second John

    Dipsy, all I am saying is that Cole Hamels probably fell to the affect of the Verducci effect. While yes, it is true that some pitchers don’t have that problem, there are lots who do. Especially in recent times when the pitchers are babied in the minors and so on.

    Andrew are you saying Cole is worse than Jamie Moyer? If you go just by career wins, then Jamie Moyer is better than Bob Gibson, Pedro Martinez, ROY HALLADAY, Curt Schilling, Don Drysdale etc.

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew

    Ha ha
    Just making a point about perceptions. And how things like stuff come into a persons thought. No I thnk Moyer should compete for the 5th spot. Heck Id like to see kendrick take it and be a really good pitcher even. I also am tired of the endless Moyer bashing. And the Hamels protection element. Coming out and saying Moyer is penciled in as a 5th starter is a good move is all. Not inked in just penciled.

     
  • Posts: 0 PhxPhilly

    Moyer was pitching poorly mid last year and Pedro needed a chance. Moyer pitched great during those rain delay games so maybe he still has something left. Then he got injured.
    As others have noted, he has lead the NL Champs in wins each of the last TWO seasons. I know wins are a ‘luck’ stat but the object of the game is to get them so I am certainly willing to let the wins leader be the 5th starter.

    How does this not make sense? If Moyer is terrible in the Spring then he likely goes on the DL and they give him some rehab starts and go from there.

    Kendrick still has options and can start in the minors and continue to work on his changeup. When we need a starter due to someone going on the DL he can be called up and hopefully perform as a mid-rotation guy.

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew

    Career wins? LOL
    I am not stupid.
    It is a fact that the last 4 years on the EXACT same team Moyer has a higher winning percentage than hamels. And exactly 1 less win.
    with the exception of Hamels play in 08 playoffs they are very comparable. Add in hamels dismal display in the 09 post season and you could say I have enjoyed Moyer pitching the last 4 years more than Hamels. Just my opinion though.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Andrew, I need your opinion on something. Does this dress make me look fat?

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew

    Send a photo :)
    I guess everyone else is snowed in also so good to have a little debate. Dipsy never let facts get in the way of a good debate.

     
  • Posts: 0 James Kay

    Where else could you find a reference to Wayne Twitchell but here! He was a big bad right hander who as a Phillie All Star in 1973 posted a very impressive 13-9 2.50 1.213 line with 5 sho. His career was essentially ended by an offseason knee injury during an informal basketball game in NJ.

    Relax about the fifth starter. That spot in the rotation is reserved for transients, migrants, and criminals. Always has been. It adds suspenseful variety to a long season. At best, it provides an entry point for promising young arms or final glory veterans who have mastered a new trick pitch. The Phillies will win consistently every fifth day with whomever is assigned that starting task.
    .

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Well said, JK. AND the only reason “Twitch” was on the All Star team is that those were the days you had to take at least one player from every team. I think its gonna be Kendrick.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 The Second John

    As long as its a competition, it doesen’t matter who the 5th starter is. The important thing is we have depth, which we do. I agree Dipsy, I think its going to be Kendrick.

     
  • Posts: 0 shag beta sigma delta

    Look at our fifth starter last year, Moyer 12 wins, Bastardo had a few OK starts, Lopez, Carpenter had one good start if I remember correctly, he won his first start, KK did he start a game?, then Pedro/ Moyer rain delayed games, then Pedro had a couple, am I missing anyone? So how important is the 5th starter? I wouldn’t mind Moyer pitching on 7 or 8 days rest and throwing KK or Carpenter out there in between, I know that would never happen. But if they could have signed Pedro cheaply, I think those two could pitch every other 5th day, and in the post season decide if you need either of them in the Pen.

     
  • Posts: 0 shag beta sigma delta

    Dipsy, there is still one player from every team on the All Star team unless I missed something. Every team has to be represented in the summer classic. And I liked Twich, him and a little later, sht now I forgot his name, was it Randy Leach, (man a little to much smoking in the 80′s for me) where my favorite pitchers, Leach Learch something like that I think hit two home runs in one game in the 70′s or had a home run in two consecitive starts. I should look that ;up

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Randy Lerch did have two homers in a game once. He was one of your favorite pitchers? Man, talk about low expectations. That was a bad time for Phils pitching. Although I actually had a thing for Nino Espinoza.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 shag beta sigma delta

    Hey I was a kid and the guy hit two HR and it wasn’t like they were a good team, Larry Bowa was my favorite Phillie maybe because I played SS and liked to choke up on the bat and had no power.
    Sometimes I miss sitting in the box seats on the third base line at the Vet in the early 70′s not a great team but only being 7 it was a blast and they always won when I went to the games and have the programs with box scores to prove it still.

     
  • Posts: 0 George

    Carpenter’s one start last year was a dog. He only lasted 4 innings, but got the win because the Phils scored a lot and the game was shortened due to rain and some obscure scoring rule. Lopez is gone, Pedro is gone, and Bastardo is projected to be a lefty reliever. The only depth behind Moyer is Kendrick, because Carpenter and Savery can’t be counted on, in my opinion.

    I’d like to see the signing of at least one more major league experienced starter, just in case. I do hope he’s a little better than Randy Lerch or some of those other duds the Phils had in the early seventies.

    I remember Twitchell’s good year, but never knew he’d messed up his knee. Too bad arthroscopic surgery hadn’t been invented yet.

     
  • Posts: 0 philsgirl

    How can I not poke my nose into a thread where not only Steve Carlton, but Wayne Twitchell (!), and Randy Lerch are all mentioned! You’re thinking about Lerch in, was it 1978, when he hit 2 homers in the game that won us the division over the Pirates (geez, still feels weird to me they’re not in the NL East).
    Mikemike, you said it. If Hamels does not come back this year we are toast. I know we look better on paper than at the end of last season, but other teams have improved even more, and Atlanta scares me. I do hope Hamels is a pleasant surprise this year. But if he is going to stay with 2 pitches and *not* improve his curve, then he is going to be better this year *how*? We’re really just chalking 2009 up to an “off year?” or the Verducci effect :-)? It would’ve been nice to see Hamels reporting early this spring training season, if he was at least going to try to demonstrate his commitment this year, if not improvement. Oh wait, he is a new dad, though..
    Nice to remember the old days at the Vet, 3rd base-line box seats was my first Phils experience, makes me want to dig out my old lucky shirt…

     
  • Posts: 0 James Kay

    Randy Lerch is listed as number 100 on the Phillies Nation 100 Greatest list. You can look it up from the home page.

    Nino Espinosa was a classy pitcher who was one of those oddities who did time with both the Phillies and the Mets. Can you name 10 more real fast. Nino tragically died of a heart attack at age 34 on Christmas Eve in 1987.

     
  • Posts: 0 George

    My second sentence is sure lousy. I meant to say that Carpenter won despite pitching only four bad innings, due to an obscure scoring rule concerning rain-shortened games.

    I fear I’m still not wording that well, but at this point, I don’t care. I’m too tired to care.

     
  • Posts: 0 George

    Are you talking about 10 more pitchers, or 10 more anything? There are a lot more of these “oddities” than one might think besides the obvious Billy Wagner and Pedro Martinez. I believe Paul Byrd, Turk Wendell, Jerry Koosman, and maybe even Robin Roberts all pitched for both teams. I could research this, but I’m not going to. With free agency, waiver wire claims, and players traded from team to team to yet a different team, players serving time on rival teams is not really all that extraordinary. Who knows; next year we may see Cliff Lee as a Met. (I doubt it, though!)

     
  • Posts: 0 James Kay

    For hard core National League East fans who have watched the Phillies battle the Mets over the years, the list of players who played for both the Phillies and Mets in the following link may be amusing:

    http://www.ultimatemets.com/oppteams.php?ThisTeam=07&tabno=B

     
  • Posts: 0 Brooks

    Moyer as the 5th starter will only be icing. We probably have the best looking 1 thru 4 starters. None of us were seeing a mirage in Cole Hamels starting in 06 until last years heroics in the WS – he just needs to straighten his skirt and tighten his bolts. He will be one of the premier young lefties in the league once more. To go along with the best RH pitcher in either league as our #1. Happ and Joe will pick up probably 30 victories (hopefully) between them. Add the icing and are we close to 75 wins by our starters? As long as our offense holds up, like it did last year (until the WS), Jimmy has an average season for him, we now have a bench and a contact hitter as our third baseman.
    Icing, dressing if you will a garnish.

     
  • Posts: 0 George

    That list of players was interesting. I knew a few rather famous Phils had also played for the Mets (I somehow confused Ashburn and Roberts, however!), and I’d even remembered a few more names before falling asleep last night. The most interesting thing was the number of lost causes on this list. They’re the ones who usually got moved before free agency began. Very few were in their primes.

    75 wins from our starters would be great, but it’s not likely because of the way pitching staffs are handled these days. I doubt if any team will ever again have four 20 game winners in the rotation, like Baltimore did years ago. Halladay may be used enough to get 20, but Hamels’ best so far is 15, Blanton’s 16, and Happ is still learning. Oddly, Moyer is the only pitcher on the staff besides Halladay who has won 20 or more. I doubt he’ll do it again, though. If he does, AARP will raise an army and take over America. As much as I’d like to see him win 20, I have second thoughts, because I don’t want Betty White running the country.

     
  • Posts: 0 j reed

    man…i rather get blown by a Bengal Tiger than watch Moyer pitch.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    My opinion that Jamie Moyer will have a poor year based on the following:

    - Now, he 47!
    - He presumably has not trained in about 5 months;
    - He’s coming off two surgeries;

    Would I take a 11-10, 4.39 out off Moyer this year? You bet. But he’s got a lot of things working against him.

    The Dipsy

    p.s. I wouldn’t think that Randy Lerch would make no. 100 in a list entitled “Greatest Pitchers named Lerch” list. But, what do I know?

     
  • Posts: 0 Brooks

    George, with the numbers you mentioned – Halladay 20 wins, Cole 15, Happ, 12, Blanton 16 – then what the Dipsy said even an 11-10 season from #5 starter – right there is 74 victories. But, that is if everything goes right and something is bound to not go right.

     
 
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