The Dip: Live and Let Dye Play

Posted by The Dipsy, Sat, February 20, 2010 01:28 PM | Comments: 84
Posts, The Dip

This is The Dip, a column penned by our regular commenter, The Dipsy.

Jermaine DyeJudging from the posts of the last few days, it appears that Philly fans don’t care much for Johnny Damon. In that case, perhaps Jermaine Dye would be more your cup of tea. It seems that ever since the economy took a header two years ago, there always seems to be a few intriguing stragglers still hanging around jobless at the start of Spring Training. This year is no exception and one of those guys working out in his basement as I write this is Jermaine Dye. While Dye is getting a little long in the tooth (turned 36 last month) he can still contribute a good amount of offense to any team he joins. The great thing about a guy like Dye right now is that he knows his best days are behind but he can still play. And if he has any competitive fire in him, he wants to prove it. And he’s sweating. Hey may get a nice multi-year contract befitting of what he feels he’s worth – or he may not. Given that it’s February 20, I don’t think it would hurt if RAJ gave Dye’s people a call to find out just what’s going on over there.

Dye is a good hitter. Through a full season he will probably give you at least 25/85/.270 (I don’t do OPS). If the Phillies express interest, perhaps they could remind Dye that he is, in fact, not signed and that maybe he should consider signing on with a probable World Series contender. Ruben could promise him 350-400 ABs and remind him that he could always try for another contract next year while also making mention of the fact that the Phillies may have a vacancy in right field. Ruben could tell him to take the $3.5m he’d be offering and to jump on board with a winner. And Dye might.

Why would the Phils do it, though? Well, here are reasons.

Dye is a righty and has played every outfield position in his career. Charlie could rotate him through the outfield, giving him two starts a week as well as every game against a tough lefty. Maybe, just maybe, if you tossed him a first baseman’s mitt he could learn how to use it. This would make the lineup much tougher against left handed pitchers.

In a season that the Phils could go to the Series, being able to have the depth to cover for a big outfield injury would be sweet. I am aware that Francisco is on the team but he’s no Jermaine Dye. Francisco will get his spot starts, lots of pinch hitting duty, as well as pinch running and defensive replacement assignments.

Then, there is the Jayson Werth issue. If for some unknown reason, the Phils are looking to trade Werth at some point, they’ll already have his replacement on the roster. I don’t care about the at bats Ross Gload is going to miss out on. He’s just another lefty on a team full of them.

In summation, Jermaine Dye may be a “distressed asset” right now – perhaps ripe for the picking at a low price, if offered by the right team, presenting the right situation. My gosh, I think I just described the Phillies. Hey, it doesn’t hurt to pick up the phone.

Avatar of The Dipsy

About The Dipsy

The Dipsy has written 29 articles on Phillies Nation.

  • Posts: 0 Choopes

    Wasn’t his UZR last year like -22? Don’t think he can field anymore.

  • Posts: 0 Weed Man

    Pass the pipe Dipsy!

  • Posts: 0 John

    Nice article Dipsy. I do like this idea much more than the Damon idea. I agree that he does have a good amount of offensive production left though I do have two concerns with this proposal. First I am a little suspect of his defensive ability, and while I think the idea of putting him at first is a nice one; I don’t believe that would generate enough ABs for him. The reason being is that Chollie’s loyalty to his players is a weakness at times, meaning I fully expect to see Ryan in there against the tough lefties regularly regardless of how silly he looks at times. I believe Chollie has already said that he sees Gload getting more starts in the OF than at 1st. Second, in order to have a spot on the 25-man roster, someone would have to go. Who would you suggest Dye replace? I don’t see the Phils using the open pen spot for another bat, and everyone else is under contract. Other than those two points I really like the idea, especially since that would give the Phils the big right bat off of the bench that we desperately need.

  • Posts: 0 RichieAllen

    Dipsy,Any depth is good but……
    Dont we have Ibanez signed for 2 more years in left ?And Victorino for 3 years?Where would the 400 at bats come from?
    I’d rather take this money and sign Werth.

  • Posts: 0 beta sigma shag

    For a guy who hates the budget the Phillies have put on RAJ, you think throwing 3.5 million on a fifth outfielder is a wise way to spend the little money the Phillies have to spend. AndFrancisco may not be what Dye was in his prime, I think he is a better player now. IMO Francisco is a far better defensive player, and I think a full year as the #4 outfielder, and PH if given the chance will be very productive. Given Raul’s age and the fact he is coming off an injury, he should rest a little more then he did in the first half of last year. Saying that if you had to take Damon or Dye, I would take Dye, but there just is no room for him on this team, unless you forsee trading someone.
    Also dispite his lackluster hitting last year in very few at bats, I think Mayberry Jr. should get a long look in ST and could be a future right handed bat the Phillies will need. Instead of spending money, lets give guys that we have under contract a shot first. Guys like Dye will be out there before the trading deadline if needed

  • Posts: 0 NJ

    Sorry Dipsy but snore… There’s a reason so many of these guys hang around on the market, we see ‘names’ and ‘stats’ the teams see video and scouting reports from people with 100 times the baseball knowledge we have so if Dye’s a free agent and isn’t getting his asking price there’s a reason.

    Dye is clearly just a body now and an expensive one at that who looks to be pricing himself into retirement Kenny Lofton style.

  • Posts: 0 BS

    This only makes sense to me if the NL adopts the DH. Dye may still be an ok hitter, but he’s Matt Stairs-esque in the field.

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    I get the argument…but it’s been said…who goes in order to free up the roster spot??

    Certainly I’d take Dye over Damon…but someone would have to be traded in order for that to happen..

    Actually, right now…I like our outfield for this year…and Gload and Francisco are clear upgrades to start the season over Jenkins and Stairs.

  • Posts: 0 PhxPhilly

    Since I do not have ‘author’ privileges I appreciate your posting of my response to the “Trade Victorino and Sign Damon” article.
    (Part of my comments from that article:
    in your scenario, instead of Damon I would want Jermaine Dye in RF. Another right handed bat with power. If we lose Werth, he could possibly bat 5th. Dye is at least better than Damon in the OF and can play RF. I think Dye may have a couple mediocre seasons left and might cost $3M this year with $5M option next. Werth would be the primary CF with Francisco the backup.)

    However, Dye would only come here if one of the starting outfielders was traded. Defensively, Dye cannot play CF at all. He’s poor in RF but could do it. He’s probably an avg LF at this point. I definitely like him as insurance on Werth and Ibanez (lost by injury, free agency, or trade). However, Francisco could put up slightly lower numbers (less avg, more speed) and can play CF. Dye’s experience and ability to command some respect batting 5th would be great to have if Werth is not there.
    A ‘trade’ of Ibanez for Dye to save ~$7M/year might be worth it if there were any takers.

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    The ONLY reason you would even consider that is if you know you have at good shot at retaining Werth.

    Otherwise, keep things as they are. Raul had a very good year last year…and there’s no reason think that he won’t this season as well.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    This is terrible . . . at this point in their careers, I would much rather have Francisco than Dye.

    We aren’t an AL team . . . why are we making arguements to get AL-only players like Damon and Dye ???

  • Posts: 0 Jenson

    This was from a Giants fan. SO SO SO SO SO TRUE

    stannn wrote:
    i am a giants fan. but i must admit that holliday is a very valuable player. i think he is amazing. but your pitching staff still terrible. i am sorry. but so true. compare it to ours… lincicum, cain, zito, sanchez and bumgarner. but then again, i think holliday is an amazing player. so good for you guys.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Lincecum vs. Halladay . . Halladay
    Cain vs. Hamels . . pretty sure every single team in baseball would say Hamels

    Zito vs. Blanton . . last two seasons, Blanton has been better, but talent-wise, its Zito . . call it EVEN

    Happ vs. Sanchez . . they have an identical BAA (batting average against, .246), but Happ has a better career ERA, and WHIP. .. for the sake of the arguement, I’ll say EVEN instead of HAPP

    BUmgarner vs. anyone the phillies could put at #5… BUMGARNER

    and their offense sucks…

    Phillies have a better rotation in my opinion

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    So you’re basically saying that Cain, Zito and Sanchez are THAT much better than Hamels, Blanton and Happ?? Right?? Enough to say that the Phils “pitching staff is still terrible” ???

    (I’m considering Lincecum and Halladay a wash…although I’d take Halladay over Lincecum)

    I’ll take our 2 through 4 guys any day of the week.. Hamels is gonna bounce back and be very effective…Blanton is a really good solid #3…and Happ, while he may not put up the same numbers this year, is as good a #4 as any out there.

    Of the Giants 2 through 4 guys…only Cain had a REALLY good year last year. Zito and Sanchez are good pitchers….but not any better than Blanton and Happ…At least that’s my opinion..

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Oh, yeah…I forgot Bumgarner…yeah, I’d give him the edge, too.

    Still…the Phils rotation is better. Because of Halladay and Hamels at the top.

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Firstly, let me correct something. Phils might have a “vacancy in LEFT field, not right”. Jermaine Dye is a hitter. When Dye starts in LF, there is no drop off in D because Ibanez can’t play the field either. Dye can play 5 games a year in right and Werth could easily play center in those games, to spell Vic. Dye has also played 1B. So, is he a great defensive player? No. But he can hit and IF you can steal him, I think you take him. Thats the premise of the article. This guy can be had for cheap, maybe less that 3.5m, and he’s better than Dobbs or Gload. Castro can play third and so can Polanco. For the first month of the season we could carry a six man bench. To me Dobbs and Gload are repetitive. No need for both. Dye would be a significant upgrade over both. Not upsetting the team chemistry going into spring training is not a reason not to cherry pick a good player. Think about it.

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    “RIGHT field, not left”, I meant. Damn.

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    I’m confused.

  • Posts: 0 Manny

    Not only is this a bad idea, but IF we have $3.5 M extra to spend, we should get another starting pitcher instead, not ANOTHER outfielder.

  • Posts: 0 Aaron

    Why are all these bloggers trying to fix what’s not broken?

  • Posts: 0 George

    In case anyone hasn’t noticed, it’s now being reported that Damon and the Tigers are very close to a one year contract in excess of $7 million, or about what Victorino is making. That pretty much kills the earlier trade Vic/sign Damon for less idea.

    And if Dye is perceived as the better player on this sight, he may be in some front offices, too. Heck, he might end up not catching up to fly balls for $8 million.

  • Posts: 0 Jeff of Nova

    I appreciate all the hypothetical scenarios, but this and the Damon one is absolutely out there. I agree if you could get Dye to come in and be a bench player for cheap money that would be great, but he wants to play.

    Other thing is the Phillies have the BEST outfield in baseball.

    1 gold glove, 3 Allstars, 70+ homers 250+ RBI’s etc.

    Why try to add or take out of that. We need role players not has beens that want to start.

    Good Article, thought it was interesting and yet entertaining cause the Phils are not add anything else at this point.

  • Posts: 0 derekcarstairs

    I wouldn’t mind picking up Dye in August in preparation for the playoffs. If we get to the WS, Dye would look mighty nice as our DH.

  • Posts: 0 Brooks

    To start off, I don’t think we need a player like Dye.
    When he was younger, I thought he was the bomb. Between 1999 and 2001, he had over 100 rbi and his average was a high of .321 to a low of .282 – all pretty acceptable for a big man hitting cleanup.
    But from there his career takes a bumpy if not questionable road. Just as a for instance as recently as 06 Jermaine hit a career high 44 hrs, knocked in 120 rbi (also a career high) and averaged .315. The next season saw a 62 pt drop in his average, his power output also decreased to 28 hr and 78 rbi. The next year he’s up again, hitting 34/96/.292 and bloop – the year following he’s 27/81/.250 – none too consistent.
    There was a time when I thought Jermaine was the next coming of Frank Thomas – but injuries and inconsistency proved otherwise.
    Aside from all that, Jermaine would NOT sign as a backup. I liken him to Carlos Delgado in talent and attitude – that’s it! He is a perfect Met!

  • Posts: 0 Phils4Life

    WOW. one more article like this and the other Damon one, I don’t think I’m coming back to this site. WOW again

  • Posts: 0 Blaise

    I would sign Delgado to pinch hit for like $5. Let’s do it.

  • Posts: 0 WFC010

    Phils4Life: it’s called an opinion, and everyone is entitled to them.

    Go crawl back into your little cave, while the rest of us have some interesting discussions.

  • Posts: 0 Dan S

    Where do you get these ideas? the phillies dont need another bench bat. and damon? i’m sorry but i am really glad you are not the phillies general manager. that would be a complete disaster

  • Posts: 0 The Ed 2

    A guy like Dye needs to either go the Abreu route or the Adam Dunn route. Either he fills a hole on a roster that just needs another outfielder or he acts as a mentor to young players while generating some interest in the fan base (hes PERFECT for the Braves until Heyward is ready). Hes not the kind of player who sits on the bench for a title contender, at least not at 3-5 mil a year. Thats alot of cash for 5 ABs a week, and for someone who isnt statistically clutch, and for someone who is the equal of a replacement player, and for someone who offers no defense, and for someone who will take someone elses place on the roster, and for someone who generally isnt needed at all. So besides that hes a great sign.

  • Posts: 0 deebo

    dye, with a 1b mitt is a perfect solution. sorry, ross. 800k seems to be going rate, imho, unless you have a better deal in hand. RAJ could go under the radar and sign j-dye and keep the yearly payroll under $142m.

  • Posts: 0 Mike Dee

    His 2010 projections of .272/.340/.509 and VORP of 12.5 is exactly what you need from a bench player.

    I LOL’d when I read that comment about no defense. Remember that highlight real grab he had last year?

  • Posts: 0 Brooks

    I just read where Rod Barajas signed a 1 year, 1 million dollar contract with the NYM – I guess that is there ‘ace’ in the hole? At least facing the Phillies. Hey, he wont have 18 hrs this year, right (especially all vs the Phils!)?

  • Posts: 0 mick

    Forget Dye-This guy has been hanging on for a couple of years–The Phils need to move some youth(multiple tools) into the lineup when the chance occurs- or else they are going to age overnite and it will not be pretty

  • Posts: 0 shag beta sigma delta

    first you people get up way to early. But I have to agree 100% with you. I could see getting Dye for a bat in the playoffs if a bench player gets hurt or something like that. But for a 5th outfielder 3 million is way too much

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Dye is a better bench guy that Gload AND Dobbs. They are both lefties. Dye is a righty. Lets face it, Gload leading the league in pinch hits last year is no big deal. If you look down at the league leaders in pinch hitters over the years, 95% are scrubinos. Dobbs plays first, third, and OF. Castro and Polanco plays third. Gload can play first and OF. Dobbs is repetitive. If you could sign Dye for peanuts, I say do it. Why not have a starter quality player as a bench player? I don’t get it it. I know that Dye is not a great STARTER anymore but would be a helluva bench player. He could spell Ibanez, Howard, and Shane (Werth moving to CF) and make us more right handed. How about if I told you he could be had at 2.5m? 1.5m? 1M? At some point would you guys change your mind? Because of off days, the Phils can carry six bench players for the first month of the season ya know.

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 George

    And after the first month with six bench players, who gets shipped out so an over-the-hill Dye can continue to warm the bench? Or would Dye just be on the DL, like he so often has been over the years?

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Probably Dobbs. We don’t need him.

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 George

    If we don’t need Dobbs, we don’t need Dye. Francisco already has Dye’s place, and will do a better job. If Polanco needs a rest, it would probably be against a tough right hander, and Dobbs is the only lefty on the team who plays third.

    Dye is too old, a defensive liability, an injury risk, and wants to play regularly. There is simply no need for anyone like that on the Phils.

  • Posts: 0 Chris L

    The original opinion that spoke about trading away Vic while the value is high and using Damon (or now Dye) as a stop gap is a nice mental excercise but you’re looking at the wrong place. Dye and Damon both make you older and lose out on the defense that helps support our pitching staff (Roy’s a strike out guy and Joe is getting better but after that….maybe Lidge and Romero if they’re healthy).

    If RAJ was really going to be bold and creative and get younger without raising the payroll (too much), there is only one call to make: John Mozalak (sp?) and the St Louis Cardinals. This offseason the team traded for and signed the guy considered the best pitcher in the game and now (or next offseason) they should look at doing the same for the best position player: Albert Pujols.

    Now I know you’ll say that the Cards would never trade him, but with the money they’ve had stolen by Boras for Holliday and the arbitration numbers for guys like Ludwick, they cannot pay Albert 20-25 million a year. And about the only guy they could sell to their fans to replace him? local boy Ryan Howard.

    Straight up would never work obviously but what if they threw in the starting shortstops. Jimmy has another below market contract for next year and is by far more skilled offensively. Besides they don’t have a better leadoff guy. Plus, they might be sold on the R/L combo of Holliday and Howard..

    Now from a Phillies side the benefits are:
    Albert Pujols the most consitent offensive threat and a better fielder than Howard

    Chase will get even more fastguys to groove into Utley’s corner and may face mess left handed specialist.

    More R/L balance for the Phils lineup

    Very little defensive drop off at SS and they’ve have control over him for a couple more years (RAJ can work his arbitration eligible magic on him)

    Vic can move up to leadoff and Ryan can bat 7th.

    If they lose Werth (and they will unless Ibanez retires or is traded) next season they still have RH power.

    The one area of minor league positional depth (OF) is not being blocked by an old guy.

    I know it’s completely a fantasy but I find it much more believable and worthwhile than thinking the team would try to force an over the hill DH into a bench player. Don’t think it would happen and yeah, I’d be a little more worried about the Cardinals but I still think the Phillies would get the better deal and end up longterm in a stronger position.

  • Posts: 0 George

    Chris L, if the Cards can’t afford Pujols at $20 -25 million, how could they ever afford Howard? He makes $20 million, too, and will probably get more in a couple of years.

    The Dipsy, you mention Dye as a first base possibility. I looked that up. He’s played ONE GAME there in his career! 8 total chances!

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Then I was right! Again! Thats thats the whole point. He IS old (36), he IS a defensive liability, he DOES wanna play regularly. Thats why no one wants him a starter. But if you can get him CHEEEAAAAAP, sign him. Think of it as the Warren Buffett school of signing free agents. If you see a guy that you can get for waaaaaaayyyyy below market value, then pick him up. Dobbs sucks and I’m not worried if the the guy we play there on the 10 games when Polanco rests is a leftie or rightie. You loved Matt Stairs didn’t you? Well Dye would better and cheaper and right handed and is actually physically ABLE to field a position.

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 Chris L

    That’s still a $5-7 million savings over Pujols for at least the 1st year or two so that they can keep their pitcing staff together plus belief in getting a hometowm discount (which Pujols probably won’t give them a 2nd time) .

    BTW, if the Cards do keep a $20 mill 1B Ludwick might be a cheaper (by a few million ) replacement of Werth.

    Like I said, it’s a stretch but I still see it as having more viability and likeliness than bringing Dye in.

  • Posts: 0 Chris L

    Dipsy -
    Stairs also had a history of hitting off the bench in key situations and getting on base when needed. Dye has played less than 15 games as a DH since 2005 if I’m going to endorse a move, it’s got to have some history behind it not just that it’s cheap.

    Yes, Dobbs played poorly last year but he’s performed well in the role in the past and gives them at least some defense in multiple positions (and once again, with no history to back it up, I don’t count Dye as even a possible 1B). If they cut Dobbs now, you might as well as his guarenteed contract to Dye salary because it would still cost the club money.

  • Posts: 0 Chris L

    One more thing:
    When I looked back over the two SS salaries, you’re right the Phils would still probably have to send 2-4 million over. And if they could have a 72 hr window to extend Pujols(~4 yrs, 90 mill- option for a 5th), I’d do it.

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Chris – Dobbs is tradeable. I guess I’m a little peeved that they signed Gload. Why? Another OF/1B type? And a lefty? Cmon man. We need a righty bat off the bench and right now Francisco is the only one. I don’t like that. That what we get for signing bench players the day after the World Series is over. I just thing that both Gload and Dobbs is overkill, especially when we are so LHed to begin with.

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Sure, I would do Howard for Pujols in a second. Now THAT’S fantastical. No one would “force” Dye to do anything. He’s ready for the Rusty Staub/Gary Sheffield/Richie Allen portion of his career.

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Dipsy, I don’t understand one of your statements from an earlier entry this morning…

    “Let’s face it, Gload leading the league in pinch hits last year is no big deal. If you look down at the league leaders in pinch hitters over the years, 95% are scrubinos.”


    First off, the fact that Gload DID lead the league in pinch hits last year IS a big deal. I remember the guy giving us fits in certain games. I give Ruben props for going out and getting someone like this that has tormented us and bringing him into the fold.

    Secondly…”scrubino”??? So what!! Not every player on the team needs to be an All-Star. You need role and bit players like this in order to round out the team. Even Eric Bruntlett did his job and was part of a winning team. He did was was asked of him and contributed where he could.

    Look…we’ve upgraded this team…SIGNIFICANTLY…If there was no one else out there and we were still scrambling for guys…then maybe Dye would fit in. But for now I just can’t see spending that kind of money for him. If the money is truly there…then spend it on more pitching. A situational lefty. Maybe another 5th starter candidate. Something like that.

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Do you agree that we don’t necessarily need Dobbs AND Gload?

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 Bob in Bucks

    Another poorly thought out post! Arguing we should add without being specific as to what we should drop is simply a waste of time. Building a strategy or even a tactical move over what is left in the bargain basement bin is really poor.
    Phils should hold whatever money they have for the inevitable injury that will come. We have no idea where that will be so stocking up an extra OF when we might need an IF is silly.
    As to the specifics, these guys are on the downside of their career. I like the Phillies bench a lot better this year. Use the guys we have – I don’t see a significant upgade with Dye over Francisco. Gload is there specifically for PH which he doe well.
    Are you guys just going down the list of unsigned free agents desperately looking to write a scenario around each one? Sad.

  • Posts: 0 Bob in Bucks

    Dipsy – Just saw your note about Dobbs and Gload. I DO NOT agree that we don’t need Dobbs AND Gload. One is LH and one is RH. If you add Dye and drop Dobbs you have no LH off the bench. You only have Castro to spell Utley which is a long way down. They need to spell Utley and putting Dobbs in at 3B and moving Polanco to 2B for the games does not dramatically hurt the team. Castro for Utley is a big step down.
    Dropping Gload for Dye is a better scenario but again, do we need to spend that money for 100AB/yr?

Leave a Comment

>> Create a new Phillies Nation account.
>> Already registered with Phillies Nation? Log in here.
>> Comment without logging in:

Please ensure your comments comply with our Comment Policy.