Beerman’s Report Card: Cliff Lee Trade

Posted by Nick "Beerman" Staskin, Thu, March 04, 2010 10:26 AM | Comments: 96
Beerman's Offseason Report Card, Posts


Hello, dead horse. Prepare to be beaten.

As stated Tuesday in the Roy Halladay post – which prompted a slew of Roy Halladay vs. Cliff Lee and Kyle Drabek vs. Phillippe Aumont arguments on the comments page – the other shoe dropped.

Postseason hero and former AL Cy Young winner, Cliff Lee was dealt to the Mariners in a puzzling move on the same day that Roy Halladay was acquired. We were told it was to “replenish the farm system.”

Let me quote the former pro wrestler, Sid Justice, “JACK TUNNEY, THIS IS BOGUS!”

When is the last time you saw an NL Champion “replenish the farm system?” The term “NL Champion” means that the team was not good enough to win the World Series. Why? Well, pitching had a helluva lot to do with it.

This is the same Phillies team that had such little confidence in its starting pitchers against the New York Yankees, that Pedro Martinez started two games of the World Series.

For one year you could have had, without question, the best rotation in baseball. Who would want to play the Phils in a postseason series when you had to face Halladay, Lee and Cole Hamels? The rotation could have been set up to have not only the best top two in baseball, but the best 3-4-5 in Hamels, Joe Blanton and JA Happ. In actuality, it is not Roy Halladay that is replacing Lee in the rotation. It is either Jamie Moyer or Kyle Kendrick, cause either of them would have been the odd man out.

If Lee walked after this year, the Phillies would have received two-first round picks.

Those two-first round picks couldn’t have helped replenish the farm system?

Phillippe Aumont only pitched in 51 innings last season in the minors. How much further along could he be than a first-rounder? His size and stature are nice and he seems to have a powerful arm, but he is projected by many to never crack a starting rotation and pitch out of the bullpen for his professional career.

Tyson Gillies hit .341 in single-A ball last year, but is projected by many to be a fourth outfielder at best. The average looks nice and he has a lot of speed, but scouts have been quick to mention that the park he played in, Slater Bros. Stadium is one of the most hitter-friendly stadiums in the minors.

The other prospect in the deal was Juan Ramirez, another pitcher thought to be a reliever at best.

What it comes down to is the Phillies gave up an ace in exchange for three prospects. Since when can’t a World Series contender have enough pitching? Lee was due to make only $9MM this season. If the money was an option, then why not let Joe Blanton walk? Ruben Amaro gave up a $20MM pitcher, due to make a fraction of that. This is just bad business.

The Phillies have a stadium that is sold out nearly every night. Money should never be an option. Furthermore, the Phils are not in rebuilding mode for good reason. The team is built to win now. Look at the teams that have been a staple of success over the past few years: Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, Angels. Do any of them ever make a deal to bring in prospects? Look at teams with payrolls that are near the top of the ranks like the Phillies: Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, Angels, Cubs, Mets and White Sox. Do any of them ever make a deal to bring in prospects, especially coming off a year when they just weren’t good enough?

NO! They want to win now. The Yankees went as far as improving their rotation by bringing in Javier Vazquez. The Red Sox brought in John Lackey. At the deadline and all but eliminated last year, the White Sox brought in Jake Peavy to help them contend later.

This brings two more interesting thoughts:

- If Cliff Lee HAD to be dealt…and I mean HAAAAAAAAD to be dealt, why did it have to be done on the same day as the Halladay deal? In a year that had a very weak free agent class for starting pitchers, you couldn’t have done better than a projected relief pitcher and a fourth outfielder? Amaro made this deal right away because of the backlash that he knew was coming. Fans would be much quicker to remember the loss of Lee by looking at the headline on the opposite page that reads “PHILLIES ACQUIRE HALLADAY”.

Imagine the backlash had he pulled the trigger on a Lee deal a month later. Seems like the easy way out.

- The general consensus of people who back this trade (keep in mind, people who back it still baffle me), was that Lee was not going to resign, so it was a “smart move.” How are fans so certain of this? Lee himself said that he was shocked he was traded and that they had just begun preliminary contract talks.

If that is the answer to why you HAD to trade Cliff Lee, then why is Jayson Werth still on the roster going into this year? He is in the last year of a deal and in line for a huge raise as he prepares to enter free agency next winter. Under those circumstances, shouldn’t Amaro have looked at moving Werth in the off-season too? That way we could have even more prospects. Teams in the Phillies position should not be in the business of moving All-Stars out of town via trades.

Fans are quick to love Amaro, but he is no Pat Gillick. Like I said on Tuesday, Amaro inherited a World Series champion with a deep farm system. Ownership has let the payroll increase on a yearly basis. While bringing in Roy Halladay was simply awesome, this might be the deal that Amaro is most remembered for. It really makes you wonder what his plan for the Phillies is.

beermansGradefWhat happens when come mid- to late-July, the Phillies decide they need another starter. It is no secret, pitching costs more in July than it does any other time of the year. Will Amaro dig into his newly replenished farm system and overpay for a Jason Marquis/Jarrod Washburn-type?

Is the plan to win a World Series or simply contend for an NL crown? The Phillies are the class of the National League. Nobody can doubt that. But in a seven-game series, who would you really take? Our Fightins or the Yankees or Red Sox?

What could Roy Halladay do in the World Series that Cliff Lee didn’t? Now ask yourself this, what could Cliff Lee do in the postseason that Pedro Martinez didn’t?

I understand we want the team to be productive for years to come. But which year is more important right now, 2010 or 2014?


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About Nick "Beerman" Staskin

Nick Staskin has written 36 articles on Phillies Nation.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    yea if the RedSox and Yankees… didn’t want to give up their best prospects for Halladay.. or for 1.5 years of Cliff Lee

    why the hell would anyone think they’d be then willing to give up their best prospects for LESS time with Cliff Lee

    instead they’ll keep their prospects.. and target Lee this offseason.. which is the smart thing to do.

  • Posts: 0 NJ

    There’s been the suggestion the motivation behind dealing Lee was to save money, if anything it’s to spend money ensuring we have cheap major league viable talent to not have to go to the market and then spend all that tasty salary on penning Ryan Howard to a deal we’ll regret…

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    NJ – Respectfully, you, nor anyone else outside of the organization, have any idea what the Phils were offered for Lee or what they could have gotten. Perhaps because RAJ never bothered to find out. The very idea that the Mariners were the only ones that would have been interesetd in Lee is ludicrous. IMO, the deal was orchestrated in no small part by Gillick, who has strong ties to all three teams, at the winter meetings. The Phils knew that they were gonna trade for Halladay and couldn’t keep Lee. Amaro knew he had to make the deals bang bang so not one day could go by with those two on the same team and make the city go wild. And on top of that, Cliff is thinking he is negotiating for a new contract (if you believe him) to top it all off. Moreover, in the event RAJ did want to hold Cliff and shop him, he would have been CRUCIFIED by every Phillies fan for trying to get rid of him. The PR backlash would have been horrific. So, the deal was done, the way it was done. To make it appear as if the two deals were contingent, which almost everyone NOT on this site (the “golden middle”) still believes to this day. The process was not perfect by any means. In fact, it was downright painful. Here’s to hoping one of the prospects pan out.

    The Dipsy

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 George G.

    Halladay won’t give up 5 ER to the Yankees and pull off a lucky win like Lee did, I’m sure.

  • Posts: 0 NJ

    Dipsy- With respect as well the baseball rumormill is so over-saturated in the off-season you have a very good idea of what bluechippers are available where if not by virtue of several big clubs making clear they aren’t parting with certain guys. The Yankees weren’t shopping and both the Sox and Angels had balked at sending top prospects to Toronto, they weren’t going to send them here.

    I get the idea of floating him out there but when the prospects with the best suitors weren’t giving to give anywhere near what Seattle was prepared to give his value wouldn’t have increased sitting there with all the negatives because of his contract situation. Rentals are not sexy in December.

  • Posts: 0 NJ

    Plus most of these GMs are friends who’ve worked together in one place or another and are always seen on their cells, there’s no doubt Amaro had a couple of conversations but already had a pretty good idea of realistic trade scenario’s. I think he was decisive looking at the total package though I can understand how some would view his actions as impulsive.

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Yeah…these guys do their “due diligence” AHEAD of time…and when it seems like the right time to make the deal…then they do it.

    And RAJ doesn’t mess around. I like that about him.

    Maybe sometimes it could backfire….but I think more often than not in this environment you have to move pretty fast to get anything done. There are some exceptions but this wasn’t one of them.

  • Posts: 0 John

    It would be interesting to know if Ruben still would’ve moved on Halladay had Cliff accepted his offer. It seems like the Phils have had a strict policy of not signing pitchers to contracts longer than 3 years, I have a sneaking suspicion Cliff wanted more years. I also agree with Dipsy on the timing being critical in avoiding an overly outraged fanbase. Kendrick and Contreras looked sharp today. I’m actually kind of excited to see how Moyer looks, seems like he has rehabbed nicely.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    so The Dipsy is now floating something of a conspiracy theory, that instead of talking with all teams . . . the Phillies operated a back-door trade, all organized by Pat Gillick (who works with the Phillies still) . . . talking only with the Mariners, and the result of this secret trade has you believe that the Phillies also had Cliff Lee STOLEN from them, with little to no value in return?

    And you also believe that eventhough the Yankees, RedSox, and Angels (the teams with the money to sign/resign the likes of Halladay and Lee).. eventhough they wouldn’t give up their top prospects for Halladay or Lee at the 2009 trade deadline . . . that they would’ve been willing to give up those prospects in the 2009 OFFSEASON . for the same pitcher, for less time??

    … am I following you correctly here?

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    John… no need for “suspicion … Cliff Lee was said to be seeking

    “At least 5 years”
    “a C.C. Sabathia type deal”

    both of those are WAY more than the 3 years, $60 Million the Phillies offered. He wanted to test the Free Agent market. . that was well-known.. (can’t blame him for it… and can’t blame the Phillies for bringing in a better pitcher that wanted to sign a 3-year deal)

  • Posts: 0 Andrew

    See me in 2014 crybabies.
    I am tired of this.

  • Posts: 0 Paujoe

    Gotta keep an eye on the extra year on these deals. If no second year for moyer they keep lee. The ibanez 3rd year and no trade clause means we lose werth.

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Don, cmon dude. Its not a conspiracy theory. Perhaps, RAJ did inquire at the meetings as to suitors for Lee. I would suspect that if he did we would have heard about it. Dontchathink? “Phillies shopping Lee at Winter Meetings!”. And please don’t tell me that these guys are so good at being mum cuz they’re not. In any event, I have no problem with the prospects we got back from Seattle, especially in light of the bag of bolts we gave the Indians. Also Don, by the end of the season, Cliff Lee had become a certified post season stud after his W.S. performance so maybe the Yanks/Sox/Angels etc. would have parted with some talent. At this point, I don’t really care. I think that the three teams had it all 80% done by the time they broke from the meetings. And they kept it quiet cause if they didn’t it would have fallen apart. I am not being accusatory or implying that the wool was pulled over anyone’s eyes if Gillick had in effect put it together. Good for him. We have Halladay and thirty-whatever other teams don’t.

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 George

    Dipsy: With all due respect, you are claiming that no one knows what the Phils could have gotten in the way of prospects, had they waited. Given this argument, how can YOU know that they could have done better, which seems to be what you are saying?

  • Posts: 0 George

    The Dipsy: My last post went up after your qualifier. I guess you are just floating ideas, and not condemning the trade.

    Personally, I think the Phils did about as well as they could have under any circumstances, and better than could have been expected given the poor return the Indians got for Lee and Francisco. If anything went wrong, it’s not because of Ruben Amaro, but is because of the lack of value placed on Lee by other teams.

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    George – I am saying that I have no idea what anyone else offered the Phils, if anything. What I am saying is that perhaps, if the Phillies were just giving Lee the same value he had at the deadline, and that armed with this information they assessed him at the same value after the season, that maybe they should have asked around to see if he had become a little more valuable after his performance in the Series. Maybe he had, maybe he hadn’t. Maybe Lee was worth even less. Who knows? The only way you find out is to ask. And I’m not sure they did. I just want to feel good that they tried to extract max value under the circumstances.

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Like I said earlier….GMs do their homework and “due diligence” AHEAD of time. RAJ had a pretty good idea that Seattle was a good match. But I’m also sure he at least TALKED to other teams.

    The bottom line is Cliff Lee said that he wanted “at least 5 years and CC Sabathia kind of money” He can say whatever he wants about being “blind-sided”.

    The point is that once he/his agent made that known….RAJ made this deal. And nwe’re better off IN THE LONG RUN for it.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    This is seriously getting re-god-damn-diculous . . . . we are honestly sitting here reading posts claiming that the Phillies didn’t check out offers for Cliff Lee?

    based on the simple fact that there what, weren’t stories written about it ahead of time??

    and we’re accusing the Front Office of taking low ball offers, instead of being pulling off the same crazy-smart trades that they’ve done in the past, including Lidge, and Cliff Lee in the first place . . .

    lets give them a little more credit..

    Cliff Lee isn’t the world’s greatest pitcher.. in reality, hell even in fantasy land.. he’s probably not seen as Top 10. … and with his upcoming MONSTER FREE AGENT year looming.. the same teams interested in his services (the contending, and free spending teams.. Yanks, Sox, Angels, etc.. ) can all have him for the right $$$.. and keep the prospects that they’ll need to build around a FA of that high a price tag anyway

    people are making way too much of this, and not using common sense..

    to accuse, or question the Front Office of not seeking the best possible return is borderline retarded (sorry, Sarah Palin).

    We STOLE Cliff Lee from the Indians, because his value wasn’t that high.. but people then expect Lee to be flipped for a HIGHER return??

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    The Dipsy . . . you’re better than this.

  • Posts: 0 NJ

    To be honest I think we got more in context that we traded for Lee… Am probs in the minority there

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Don – Don’t patronize me, please. Swear, belittle, ridicule, talk about my mom, but please……. don’t patronize. Thank you, sir. You know who is really to blame here? The FREAKIN’ BEERMAN! It was done. It was over. The sleepless night and cold sweats. The temporary sexual dysfunction…and I stress “temporary”. The fights with my girl. The staying home from work in my bathrobe. It was over! I was free. But bringing up this topic is liking poking a sleeping animal with a stick. I just can’t lay off it! Please let it die today. The day Roy threw his first pitch while swaddled in Phillie red. The mantra to keep myself sane …….”The Doctor is in. The Doctor is in. The Doctors is in”. I’ve got my stethascope (sp) and scrubs ready for opening day. Let the healing begin for the love of God!

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    It’s 9:30 at night. I’ve been busy for the past several hours with “house” stuff. And I’m reading some of this stuff and it’s utterly priceless.

    Dipsy…for as wrong as you are/were about this whole Cliff Lee thing …your post has me in stitches….funny stuff (hope I’m not being patronizing)

    Seriously, though…we’ve GOT TO MOVE THE F ON…because Don’s right…it’s gotten SOOOO ridiculous already.

    This day starts with this borderline moronic article by the BEERMAN….blabbering on nonsensically about something that should have been put to rest WEEKS ago…

    ……and mercifully, it ends (at least for me) with the comforting thought that ROY FREAKIN’ HALLADAY pitched today like he was in mid-season form.

  • Posts: 0 Money Mike

    While this isn’t “news” anymore, the argument is just as valid.

    If Hamels fails to bounce back, or if father time catches up to Moye, or if Happ hits a sophmore slump, or if Joe Blanton returns to 4.5+ ERA form, someone like Lee softens that blow. All of these are very possible, but to send out Halladay and Lee every 2 out of 5 days, it makes life easier if the other 3 days are pitched by Hope, Maybe, and Someday.

    The argument that the prospects acquired will be ready in a few years when more money will be needed, then why not get prospects out of the draft, 2 of them to be exact, or a July deadline deal. The July deal for Teixeira a few years back had Elvis Andrus and Neftali Feliz in it, two of the games best prospects. July is more expensive than December. Better for the seller.

    I know my team, the Mets, if contending would be inclined to make a deal for a pitcher to slot behind Santana. Why? Because Santana/Lee in the playoffs is money in the bank. The Phillies could’ve had money in the bank, now it looks like they could be a couple dollars short.

    And please don’t start replying with “Mets SUCK” thread. Lets stay on topic.

    And I’ve heard it all before.

  • Posts: 0 NJ

    I have a close friend who’s a Mets fan and the last thing you want to do is contend and start playing the market, apparently there’s some good prospects on the way behind F-Mart and his outfield clown like hilarities but there’s too much trash on that roster and not enough role players.

    I think if Cole hits rock bottom, Happ has a softmore slump, Lidge blows more saves than a tranny working out of Port Authority etc… Then Lee wouldn’t mean a thing, the Phils season would be done.

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Is it crazy to think that if Cole is just middling around come July 31 at 11-11, 4.22 and Cliff is Cliff, you just offer Cole for Cliff and a little more? Cliff will sign with the Phils for 4/66 and there you have it. Your 1-2. It would make sense for the Mariners because they have a potential stud at a great price through 2011 and it makes sense for us because we have no time to wait for Cole to de-princess himself in the middle of a World Series run. History has shown us that NOTHING is too strange to happen.

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 Chuck



    Cole has TOO MUCH POTENTIAL…..OVER THE LONG-HAUL….for them to trade him.

    Why are you even suggesting something that has ZERO chance of happening??

    I don’t know which of your ideas is worse….obtaining Jermaine Dye….or trading Cole Hamels.

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Chuck – Were you one of the guys at the beginning of last year that told me that the Phillies landing Roy Halladay had ZERO chance of happening and wondering why were we wasting time talking about it??? Also, remember – graveyards are filled with guys that had “great potential”. Who do you like better today – Hamels or Lee?

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 psujoe

    Cole Hamels is going to have an excellent season. Bank on it. Heard yesterday that he didn’t hit 90 mph last year until May. He’s ready 3rd pitch or not expect a solid #2 in the rotation.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    in 2007:
    Hamels won 15 games, 183.1 Inn Pitched, 177 Ks, 3.39 ERA, 1.12 WHIP

    in 2008:
    Hamels won 14 games, 227.1 Innings Pitched, 196 K’s, 3.09 ERA, 1.08 WHIP
    (not counting the 35 in the playoffs = 262 Innings Pitched)

    thanks to winning the World Series, and having a dead arm…
    in 2009:
    Hamels won 10 games, 193.2 Innings Pitched, 168 K’s, 4.32 ERA, 1.29 WHIP

    Even that isn’t as terrible as people want to believe.. it was a down year, after an AMAZING year in 2008

    There is way too much “what have you done for me lately” . . that now has people suggesting TRADING COLE HAMELS??? …. He’s 26 years old and already has a more impressive resume than 99% of the pitchers in baseball today..

    I wouldn’t be shocked if he has a better year than Cliff Lee… its about time our offense starts giving him some run support and gets him to that 20-Game Winner plateu

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Answer to the 1st question: I said it had ZERO chance of happening at the TRADE DEADLINE.

    Answer to the second question: Hamels…..and I’ll tell you why…..

    Cole Hamels showed us 2 years ago what he’s made of. He, for all the reasons stated, fell off last year. With the development of the third pitch, a more focused off-season, working along-side Roy,…..he will bouce back this year.

    He’s young and can only get A LOT better. Cole Hamels is a future Cy Young. And….probably to sign him long- term, he will be cheaper than Cliff Lee.

    I really don’t see Cole Hamels going to the “graveyard”.

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Chuck – I hope you’re right. All things being equal, and I mean equal (salary, length of contract), I’ll take Lee at 31 over Hamels at 26. I realize that reasonable minds can differ but Lee has won a Cy Young and he displayed a giant, low hanging Balzac in the Series last year. He is, quite simply, a horse. Hamels is not….yet. I will be more impressed when he puts his make up kit away. Maybe Cole spends the rest of his career being Watson to someone’s Holmes, thats fine. As long as our Holmes (not Johnny) is Roy Halladay.

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    You’re praising Cliff Lee for what he did in the postseason last year….and that’s cool. He was awesome.

    But so many people forget what Cole did the year before. Actually, Cole’s postseason performance in 2008 was as good, if not better, than Cliff’s last year.

    Just because he didn’t “nonchalantely” catch a pop-up at the pitcher’s mound doesn’t make him any less of a “cool cat” like Cliff.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    The Dipsy is becomming GEOFF (the OLD Geoff, not the new, postive Geoff).. more and more with each passing minute

    There is no way that you can honestly, actually believe any of the crazy sh1t you’ve been typing lately..

    I think you’re just doing it to get a rise out of everyone.. but even if that’s the case.. this act is getting old.

    How about this though for FACTS

    Cole Hamels, career 3.67 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, .244 Batting avg against,
    8.4 “K’s-per-9″

    Cliff Lee, career 3.97 ERA, 1.30 WHIP, .263 Batting avg against
    6.8 “K’s per 9″

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    this is the kinda stuff that made Jimmy Rollins 100% honest when he said stuff about our fans being FRONTRUNNERS

    Cole Hamels freakin carried our team to a World Series title… the year after has a dead arm, and a down season..

    and now people already forget what he did, and would rather b!tch about the fact that he does commercials and stuff . . . but Howard’s subway commercial, Utley EAS commercial, etc. . . they’re fine.. no big deal

    Hamels would be the ACE on MOST teams in baseball.. and he’s as good a #2 as you’ll find in the game..

    If given the chance to have both players from now until they retire, probably every single GM in baseball would take Hamels, because he’s younger, and has a chance to dominate longer..

    Lee was great when he was here, but Hamels was just as good in 2008…

    and im positive that when he dominates again this year, everyone will be right back on his bandwagon . . . because the majority of our fans really are FRONTRUNNERS

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Yeah, Geoff HAS turned over a new leaf. Must have found religion or something..


    Pretty telling numbers, Cole vs. Cliff. And that’s not base on just ONE season for Cole (because the argument can be made that Cliff is older and has more experience)

    Cole Hamels has has several good seasons…..and last year wasn’t TERRIBLE either.

    I really think we haven’t seen the very best of this guy yet.

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Don – I’m not trying to be a firestarter here. Firstly, I think its fair to say the Lee is a “late bloomer”. If you accept that why don’t we focus on the last three years lets say. Over the last three, Cliff is the better pitcher. His age is not prohibitive. Loom at the stats over the last three years and then factor in the Cliff pitches in the AL and then tell me what you come up with.

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    or… you could show the numbers you want to talk about

  • Posts: 0 RichieAllen

    Don M for president!!

  • Posts: 0 psujoe

    Who is this Cliff Lee guy people keep talking about?

    Why not offer Biemel a mil to help sure up the pen?

  • Posts: 0 NJ

    Beimel would be terrible, was discussing this with a Mets friend who’s getting giddy over him. The way I’d describe him as someone you get when you don’t want to lose so many game not a guy you want around if you planning on playing baseball not golf in October. I don’t know the guy but everything written out there suggests he’s a money first guy and his stuffs pretty poor.

    Trading Hamels would be insane, his value it as its very lowest and he’s shown a renewed commitment to preparation that should pay off especially since he isn’t coming off a 270 inning year.

    Lee was never going to fit into the Phils long-term plans, only a stones throw away from a Championship and almost repeating it would have been foolhardy to prioritise the later. This team can be right at the very top for a decade if whoevers running the show doesn’t piss away the talent and let the team get old in a hurry.

  • Posts: 0 psujoe

    Thanks NJ. Was wondering why nobody signed him by now. Knowing that pass.

  • Posts: 0 NJ

    It just amazes me sometimes how some guys continually price themselves out of getting into a good situation to get the pay-off down the road with a real deal, you see so many guys take a cheap deal to build up their stock and then you see a guy like Beimel who seems to be a broken record getting every last cent he can instead of proving he’s worth a multi-year deal…

  • Posts: 0 Bob R

    I love Ruben and he did a good job on this one but when he had a shot at going for the knock out punch he didn’t. Like the man says-with a sold out CBP every night money should not be a concern-and even if Lee walked after this year we still have some draft picks coming. Halladay and Lee with Hamels and Blanton and Happ with this offense would have been amazing. You can never have enough pitching and aces are not that easy to get-we could have had two and maybe three if Cole returns to form. Maybe Halladay will be enough but it sure would have been nicer if Ruben took a shot and erred on the side of having more ace pitchers than less.

  • Posts: 0 Harry lives forever!

    I absolutely loved cliff lee. He was awesome, he was a philly guy, had that fightin’ phils mentality and is a legend in phillies history now. Buuuut and a BIG but, maybe the phillies are looking to pick up cliff lee after this year. He is a free agent again and if the phillies do not sign werth and moyer is out, freeing up more money, It just might not surprise me that they try to scoop Lee up again at the end of 2010. Just my thought.

    Anybody else feel this way? Is it a possibility? I certainly hope so!

  • Posts: 0 philsgirl

    Ok, being away from computer usage and catching up on a week or so of posts kinda takes one out of the loop, so I’m sure this won’t even be read, (maybe for the best, but this darn article gave me finger diarrhea..). My views already known on the subject, I have only one thing to add – earlier in the thread, I read something I found a bit philosophically concerning in Don M.’s post: “since we JUST won the World Series.. there shouldn’t be this sense of “ALL IN” that so many of our fans have..” I know the term “wanting to stay competitive” gets bandied about a lot by supporters of the trade, but I’ve got to say, that seems far from a competitive attitude and a bit of a shocker. Don M., I don’t always agree with you but always respect you, so you (or others of like mind) gotta tell me, why should the fact that we raised the trophy in ‘08 impact the Phils organization trying its *best* to win in 2010? In fact, to the contrary, shouldn’t the relatively fleeting time when you have a team with the highest *recent/current* potential for a WS win be *just* the time to make the biggest push for a repeat? A statement like that is akin to an Olympic athlete (who also deals with windows of opportunity not completely unlike ballteams with rarely-seen combinations of chemistry/talent) saying “well, I just won a gold medal last Olympics, I don’t need to try my best this year..” It’s the ol’ bird-in-the-hand being worth way more than two (or three) in the bush league; the further out you get, the more variables come into play. Farm-team prospects hoped to contribute in a few years may never have even made it to the majors, constituents of opposing teams obviously don’t stay static, and certainly our core will be entirely different. Sure, none of us wants the Phils in last place in a few years, but let’s not get started on what defines staying “competitive”, ‘cause that’s a whole ‘nother thread. And, no, I’m not a “front-runner”- I’ve been a fan of the Phils and only the Phils for decades- precisely why my take is to maximize your potential while you have the best chance to grab the ring again.
    Oh, and thanks to Beerman out there, for reminding me once again of the sting of missing a potential team best.
    **I reserve the right to post some or all of this in a future thread if it goes unread and is not totally extraneous at the time…**

  • Great blog. Lots of websites like this cover subjects that aren’t found in magazines. I don’t know how we got on 15 years ago with just newspapers and magazines.

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