Phillies Nation

Because Rollins became a starting SS at age 22, he has a chance to run up some impressive career totals. Rollins will play at ages 31 to 35 over the next five seasons (2010-2014), and he still could be putting up good numbers during that time. By age 35, JRoll could have 2,500 career hits, 1,500 runs, 1,000 RBIs, close to 500 stolen bases, more than 500 doubles, 135 triples, and 250 homers. Those are good numbers for a SS who also plays solid defense. Those numbers could put JRoll in the HOF. If he still has something left in his tank through his late 30s, Rollins could be a cinch HOFer.

It always surprises me when people place Rollins in the “also-ran” category. I suppose that some of that is because of his slow start last year and some is because of his low OBP.

If they read his career stats, though, maybe they’d think more highly of him. He’s easily as valuable as the Phils’ glamor players like Utley and Howard. Those two certainly can’t always drive themselves in; they need someone ahead of them who can single, then steal to get in scoring position, or double or triple–all things that Rollins is good at. Who needs high walk totals when you can do the things Rollins can?

To me, he’s already in the “truly deserving category.” The standards are changing for SS, though, and Hanley Ramirez may have some influence on whether HOF voters think Rollins truly “great.”

Possible 4 HOFs on current roster: Rollins, Howard, Utley (1st ballot), and Halladay (He’d go in as a Blue Jay but he’ll spend the rest of his career in Philly). Once again, great time to be a Phillies fan.

Interesting article, I’d never thought of Rollins as a future HOF just because of what I perceived as his poor offense….but putting it in perspective it is interesting how those numbers don’t stack up too badly.

I don’t think J-roll is a Hall of Famer either… unless he has an ’07-type season at least two more times.

Don and Chuck – the usuals – if he has another three to five years like he’s already had, then he’s in, and he’s better than Reese, Rizzuto, and Boudreau. And not by a little bit. I conceded that Wagner, Ozzie, and Aparicio were better. By the way, take a look at Cal’s offensive numbers and then take a look at Jimmy’s. Jimmy’s are better. Ernie is by far the best modern day player out of all of them buy he just didn’t plat shortstop very long. Neither did Yount.

The Dipsy

Right now, he’s Barry Larkin – hall of very good, but not hall of fame. If last year was just a blip and he can have 5 more years like 2007 (or even 2004 or 5), + do something in the playoffs (realistic chance of at least 2 more postseason trips, hopefully he’ll do somethign more than bat 0.230), then he’s in the argument. I agree he isn’t Wagner or Banks, but he’s better offensively than Aparicio (although he played in the Pitcher’s era) or Ozzie, and he’s better defensively than Cal, with comparable offensive strengths. If 2009 was the start of a trend, then he’s just the best ss the Phils ever had.

Cal’s offensive numbers:

11551 ABs
1647 Runs
3184 Hits (1078 were XBH, and of those 431 HR)
1695 RBI
.276 BA
.447 SLG

J-Roll’s offensive numbers:

5941 ABs
945 Runs
1629 Hits (591 XBH, and of those 146 HRs)
621 RBI
.274 BA
.439 SLG

Not really sure how you can say that “Jimmy’s are better”

(Maybe if you were to just multiply Jimmy’s by 2 to just about equal the playing time….then some of the stats are SLIGHTLY better…..but to say he can keep up that pace for 9 or 10 more years is a stretch)

And….Cal was MVP TWICE…Rookie of the year (which Rollins wasn’t) And Cal played in like 20 STRAIGHT ALL-Star Games???

So “The Streak” aside….Cal is better.

As one of “the usuals” . . . considering I spent many a day of the past two seasons defending Rollins against almost everyone on this site

He’s awesome, best Phillies SS ever, and again, my favorite player on the team

But Hall-of-Fame is reserved for the guys that are THE GREATEST in baseball

Rollins’ MVO season was cool.. he would have to have about 5 seasons like that to get in the HOF.. and I just dont see it happening (i’d love to be wrong about that, but I’m pretty sure im right)

…
Cal and Jimmy don’t really compare, because they are different types of hitters

They have about the same batting average, (Ripken actually has a higher On-Base-Percentage..

And if Rollins plays 10 more years, and you doubled his stat totals

HRs: Ripken 431 vs. Rollins 292*
RBIs: Ripken 1695 vs. Rollins 1242*
Runs: Ripken 1647 vs. Rollins 1890*
Hits: Ripken 3184 vs. Rollins 3258*

I mentioned like two weeks ago, that Rollins shift to 3rd in a few years might prolong his career.. he definitely has the arm strength to play there, as he’ll begin to lose some range.. But I def don’t think Rollins plays for another 10 years.. so the comparison between those two players doesn’t really work at all

There is NO DOUBT that Cal moving to third base prolonged his career. Will Jimmy agree to do that?? I guess if he knows that he can play a few more years….then why not???

If Rollins starts getting 200 hits per season (which he’s only done once, 212 Hits, in 2007)

It would take him almost 7 full seasons to reach 3,000 hits..

If I had to bet my life on it, I would say that Rollins doesn’t join the 3,000 hit club of Major League Baseball

I love Jimmy, I think he’s great. People that know me might not think that because of the way I bash him, but that’s mostly because I want him to take some walks and not pop up so much. With that said, he’s not even in the same galaxy as Cal Ripken, let alone the same planet.

Jimmy is a very good defensive shortstop that has actually improved in the last few years, and is now the best defensive shortstop in the NL kind of by default because some guys got old, some guys couldn’t hit at ALL and got moved out, no one knows about Troy Tulowitski, and Jose Reyes was hurt.

Jimmy as an offensive shortstop is decidedly average. He was right in the middle of qualified shortstops for OPS last year. He was right in the middle the year before. Hanley was so much better in his MVP year it’s nearly a crime, and he was middle of the road in ’06 as well. And average is ok! With the best 2nd baseman in baseball and a man that can’t hit a curveball but still gets 45 home runs a year getting average production from Jimmy is great. It’s fantastic he’s developed some power in the last few years, that reads really well into his decline years. I wish Charlie would grow some brains and drop him to 6th in the order where he should be where those doubles and home runs would do more good and put someone who can get on base more than 30% of the time in the leadoff spot.

And now to Ripken- Jimmy Rollins’ MVP season would be the 5th highest pure OPS of Ripken’s career. If you go by OPS+ ( udging him against a stat adjusted for the offense of the league at the time) it’d be Ripken’s 9th best.

See? It sounds like I hate Jimmy Rollins, but I love the guy. He’s that guy-the carryover from when the teams were awful, to when they were building but couldn’t get it done, to champions. It’s just that when people say things like he might be a Hall of Famer when Barry Larkin can’t even get in I get itchy.

Barry Larkin will get in. In order for this article to make sense to anyone, the reader must be willing to extrapolate Jimmy’s stats over say (OK, give) five years. I think that it is completely realistic to see Jimmy play SS until he is 37. He is in good health and has remained relatively injury free. What some are not factoring in to my assertion, and maybe I didn’t make it clear enough in the article, is that Jimmy…like Reese and Rizzuto…has the luxury of being a vital cog on one of the great teams of a generation. That gives guts extra juice. That goes for a lot when guys vote. So take his stats at the end and add it to how great his team was and his role on it = HOF.

IMO

The Dipsy

Barry Larkin and Derek Jeter will both enter before Jimmy Rollins. Remember too that this same current voter class snubbed Alan Trammell, who statistically is Barry Larkin without the PR. Omar Vizquel also has a darn good shot – half by the Ozzie argument (superlative defensive), and half with an outside chance at 3000 hits. So Jimmy might have to wait.

Jimmy needs 8 more years as a regular (170 hits a year) to hit 3000. We’ll see. He has 1629 through his first 9.1 years and age 30.

Omar Vizquel is a LOCK

If Andre Dawson’s a HOFer Jimmy is but he isn’t… Will go down as a very good player once its all said and done but not hall worthy.

Of that group only Jeter and Vizquel are hall worthy no question, but when you consider all of the guys from this generation who’ll be going on the the ballot who are question marks the rest of those guys are third tier at best. Garciaparra vs Vlad, Reyes vs Adam Dunn…

To get in the HOF . . . you generally have to be THE BEST for like a decade

He’s not there

Utley needs to have 5 great seasons still before he would get in

and same for Howard..

For once I totally agree with you Dipsy, five more years of good stats and he would have to be considered. Especially if the Phillies get to three straight WS or if he wins another one or two in the next five years, that stuff matters. Like it or not Jimmy was the cornerstone of this team, and played very hard when they were bad, and is the face of this team, I love Utley and Howard but the came up after him, so you can say they built around Jimmy. And way too much has been said obp, he gets on enough to score 100+ runs a year so he has to get on base some time. You also have to take these guys in the generation they played, tilio, rayes, and rameriz are not really his peers per say, you are looking at Jeter, Renteria, Tajada and Nomar. All of which except for Jeter, I would put behind Jimmy. Nomar didn’t stay healthy, Tajada linked to roids, Renteria, too much of a jouneymen for me.

Again….for all three of these guys….Howard, Utley, and Rollins….I just think that you need to wait AT LEAST five years….before even having this discussion.

They are all awesome players in their own right…..and, yeah….if they continue to play like crazy….then they might/should/could/maybe will be considered.

But they aren’t close to being there yet….and so much can happen between now and then. Career-ending injury. Steroids (although, I doubt it with these guys). Just hitting a wall and playing below potential for several years. Etc. Etc. Etc.

The hall of fame issue to me at this point is senseless ,not enough time to judge him for hall of fame. Cal defense at short was a joke. saw a lot of him he had no range but if you want to say he did go ahead, he was a offense shortstop just like ramirez for florida is, ramirez is a error machine ,but his offense numbers if he keeps up will get him in. but the hall should be for all around play but thats another story.

Carlton Fisk. One of the greatest offensive players? No. But he’s a catcher. Ryne Sandberg. One of the greatest offensive players? No. But he’s a second baseman. C, SS, 2B are not held to the same offensive threshold as other positions. That said, to say that Jimmy will not be in the top 50 or 75 of anything does not necessarily mean as much. If Fisk and Sandberg played the OF, they wouldn’t have gotten in. When Jimmy ends up with 2,800 hits and has been to the Series four times, winning twice, been MVP once, has 7 GG’s, just keep him out. And all those achievements are realistic.

The Dipsy

Gulp….

http://zozone.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/03/polanco_strains_right_knee_lea.html

For a C, SS, 2nd basemen to be hall worthy offensively they have to excel in an area like Craig Biggio with hits and doubles and he’s considered to be a borderline at best, Jimmy’s going to have to go a long way to reach even that level and he doesn’t have many good offensive years left in him, he isn’t Jeter offensively.

He’s like Bernie Williams, great player of his generation to watch, hell of a team leader but even for an SS he doesn’t look to have the numbers.

The guys (or the fan bases) who fight the most for HoF credentials are usually those who don’t have a ring (Jim Rice, Whitey, Dawson). My guess is that at the end of his career, Jimmy will be much happier with his 3 or 4 rings.
Also, don’t consider Cal joke at short, played hard, caught everything he could get, but he didn’t move to his right very well. Similar to Jeter with more power, less contact, only average defensively.