To me, there is absolutely no question that, with current players, Jeter is better. Jeter is among the true greats (and, no, I’m not a Yankees fan – I detest the Yankees – but his greatness is indisputable). Hanley Ramirez is just starting out, so it’s hard to guage, but he’s in another stratosphere in terms of offensive ability – he’s entirely off the charts, unless a former shortstop named Alex Rodriguez is on your chart. That guy Rodriguez played a hell of a long time as a SS (9 seasons – we lose track of how long he’s been a major league player) and he is and was a better player than Ernie Banks, which is saying something. You’ve also got Omar Vizquel (did he retire?) – who is a traditional shortstop who might go in – he’s a great player in the field, but I don’t view him as being as good as Rollins on the whole.

As for guys not in the HOF – where’s Barry Larkin? Sorry to bring this up Phils fans, but he was a better player than Rollins. Maybe not by a huge margin, but, truthfully, he was better. So, I hope and believe Rollins should go in, but it may not happen or, if it does happen, it may take a long time and there’s probably no way that Rollins goes in if Larkin does not as I think most people share my view as to who was the better player (although, admittedly, Rollins still writing his resume).

I really don’t know why I’m continuing this, but the point of that statistic is that Ripken was MUCH better defensively than Rollins. Then when you look at basically every offensive stat other than SBs it’s quite clear that Ripken blows Rollins away entirely. Even in runs (which you keep bringing up even though you don’t seem to understand what the stat even means) Ripken had more through his age 30 season than Rollins does. What was your point about BA???? Ripken – 276 and Rollins – 274. And that’s including the 10 additional years that Ripken played – do you really think if Rollins plays for 10 more years his career average is going to go UP???? Your argument is really laughable. He not only hit more HRs and had more RBI – he did every single thing on the baseball field better than Rollins with the exception of SBs and triples. Rollins has a career OPS+ of 97 – that’s not good and will only get worse as he ages. Compare that to Ripken’s OPS+ of 112 – it’s really not rocket science here. Through Rollins’ age 30 season, he had exactly one season with an OPS+ over 110 (and it was only 119). Through Ripken’s age 30 season he had 8 seasons with an OPS+ over 110 (including a 144, 145, and 162!!!).

Get a clue and stop making yourself look so ignorant on the internet. If you want to say you like the guy more because he’s cooler or you like his style or whatever that’s fine, but don’t try to make the laughable argument that he’s better when it’s totally clear that he’s not even close.

The Dipsy

Really???? See below. If he’s underrated defensively then what the hell is Cal (who absolutely destroys Rollins offensively)???

Fielding Runs Above Average (TotalZone) per 1,250 innings at SS:

Mark Belanger: 18.6
Ozzie Smith: 13.1
Cal Ripken, Jr.: 10.4
Omar Vizquel: 7.1
Jimmy Rollins: 4.2
Alex Rodriguez: 2.0
Miguel Tejada: -4.5
Derek Jeter: -7.7

(taken from Baseball-Reference)

Heck, you can even look at Range Factor. Cal got to more balls than Jimmy does: 4.73 per 9 innings, compared to Jimmy’s 4.26.

The Dipsy

However, he does not pass the most important test for Hall-of-Famers, and that one is this: when people watch him play, do they think “I’m watching a Hall-of-Famer?” I believe it is likely that most people do not think they are.

Also, there is only one of these players I would put in the “Truly Great” category, and that is Honus Wagner. All those other guys either had one severe deficiency or played only half their career at shortstop.

Tejada…..no.

The Dipsy

i need the name of your dealer. it’s obviously top shelf stuff. forget 3000 hits. he’d have to start until he’s 40. or 43. ain’t gonna happen. bowa had like 2500 and, until omar vizquel came along, THE best fielding percentage at SS for his career. i don’t think he sniffed making the ballot a second time. rollins will forever be plagued by his OBP and the fact that his career was bracketed by the likes of a-rod, nomar, jeter, vizquel, tejada in front and ramirez, tulowitzki and maybe reyes behind.

cripes, even richie ashburn, who couldn’t crack the lyrics of “talkin’ baseball,” needed to be voted in by the veteran’s committee because he had the misfortune of competing against mays and mantle (and the duke).

BTW, utley hasn’t put up biggio numbers yet, let alone jeff kent’s. howard has half the stats of pujols and 1/3 of the mvp awards and anyone that thinks hamels gets in better start with the argument that carlton went 13-20 in 1973.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rizzuph01.shtml

But the fact remains….Cal at age 30 was a legitimate LOCK for the Hall

Rollins at age 30 is not.

——-

On another note, Scott Eyre apparentely has not ruled out pitching. Go to http://www.mlbtraderumors and read comments. Interesting……..

If I wanted a table setter, I wouldn’t pick Jimmy. He bats lead off because he’s a short, fast dude and not because he’s a good lead off hitter. Moving him out of the lead off spot would be addition by subtraction and addition- put Vic, Werth, Ruiz, God I’d love to see Utley as a 1 hole hitter, ANYONE in the lead off spot who can get on base, and put Rollins further down in the order where his developing power works more to the team’s advantage.

The Dipsy

“Runs: Ripken 1647 vs. Rollins 1890*”

that’s if you take his current total and double it – which seems pretty unlikely. so I might take issue with that.

The Dipsy

His bat doesn’t look that great compared to, say, Jeter, but you have to remember that the first half of his career was played in the much more pitcher-friendly years of the ’80s. And he still is a better hitter than Rollins by any measure. Stolen bases are the only category in which Rollins beats Ripken. If nothing else, compare their career OPS+: 112 vs. 97. So Ripken was an above-average hitter for his career, including his waning years, while Rollins has been a slightly below-average hitter and hasn’t started declining yet (we hope).

And Cal’s defense was sorely underrated. For example:

Fielding Runs Above Average (TotalZone) per 1,250 innings at SS:

Mark Belanger: 18.6
Ozzie Smith: 13.1
Cal Ripken, Jr.: 10.4
Omar Vizquel: 7.1
Jimmy Rollins: 4.2
Alex Rodriguez: 2.0
Miguel Tejada: -4.5
Derek Jeter: -7.7

(taken from Baseball-Reference)

Heck, you can even look at Range Factor. Cal got to more balls than Jimmy does: 4.73 per 9 innings, compared to Jimmy’s 4.26.

I think J-Roll is fantastic, and none of this is intended as a slight against him. But I feel the need to point out just how great Ripken was, especially since he played on a declining Baltimore club for most of his career, and his skill was largely overshadowed by the streak.