And, yes, your age is your business. No problem. Judging by your comments ,however, while you may “not consider yourself old”…. I would venture to say that you aren’t just some punk kid that’s out there blogging for the fun of it or to be cool or to be a know-it -all. (Neither am I).

I appreciate your comments most of the time on here. You’re one of the more level-headed fans on this site and that’s good. I think I even called you out, along with others, as being in the “positive” group.

Let’s now just focus on the upcoming season…..it’s gonna be a good one!!

I have absolutely no problem with any statements concerning older fans, PROVIDED they are prefaced with Chuck P’s rather belated statement “my experience.” That takes the entire thing out of the realm of generalization.

It is easy to confuse Chuck and Original Chuck, but both statements contained the same sentiments and attitudes, if not the same exact words.

While I myself could not be insulted by the comments–my age is my own business, although I’ll go so far as to say I don’t consider myself old (Also I also don’t insult easily)–I do feel that others could be insulted. I will say that I ABSOLUTELY DETEST generalizations whether they regard race, religion, age, or fandom. No one wants to be lumped in a category with people he is dissimilar to. I also doubt that one can get an accurate picture of older fans by blogging 20-25 time a week. One can’t possibly know the age of a commenter unless he informs you of it, which many don’t.

All that having been said, any apologies TO ME are not necessary. I know that Chuck and Original Chuck are not trying to be mean. I do wish, though, that people would say something like “In my experience,” or “The fans I have dealt with,” before making blanket statements, and I will NOT lighten up anytime I see something as blatant as “older fans are particularly brutal,” without such a qualifier. I will NOT lighten up, either, if someone on here says “younger fans are spoiled and selfish,” without such a qualifier.

So, please don’t get angry with these young fans, they’re not trying to be mean, at least not yet! And there is a wealth of info and opinions on here, I have learned so much from this site…(of course, some stuff I didn’t NEED to know..) ;-)

Is George confusing our statements? Yesterday, you posted comments concerning “polarization” which I found very interesting and agree with to some extent. I offered some of my own comments which probably echoed some of yours…..and now George is upset….probably at both of us (maybe he doesn’t like the name Chuck….that’s just a joke, George)

I think you are misunderstanding me. And I apologize if I have somehow INSULTED you. Obviously, I have hit some sort of raw nerve, which is ok….nothing wrong with having a few “raw nerves”

But I absolutely meant nothing by my comments. I was simply stating that Phillies fans from many, many years back endured A LOT of failure and heartache with this team…..and that’s PRE 1964. So 1964 comes along……and everyone thinks “This is it. We’ve got it wrapped up.”

Only to witness one of the worst collapses in sports history. So I can understand how some of those fans have felt since….and STILL feel. As I said….not everyone fits into that category. There are young people that feel this way too…..perhaps iy’s their birthright as Philadelphians….I don’t really know.

And….for the record….I never used the term “grumpy old men” or “especially brutal” to desribe the elderly….I DID say “jaded”…..but I really don’t think that’s an INSULTING term or that it even describes older people. But if you think so, I’m sorry for offending you.

I’m sorry, but generalizations ARE insulting and DENIGRATING to people who only have one of the characteristics, such as age, and none of the rest. You are still calling older fans “jaded.” That would be no less an insult than calling a young person “immature.” Whether you mean it that way is beside the point; whether you think it’s not a denigrating remark is beside the point. It can be perceived as an insult, so it is.

So please think before you use terms such as “jaded,” “grumpy old men,” and “especially brutal” to describe the elderly. And please, talk to a few more fans before you make your “simple observations.”

Nice set of comments by you. Glad you’re part of things here. I came to this site two years ago and probably spend WAY too much time on it, I must admit. It’s addictive and extremely enjoyable, both reading some of the posts and offering my two cents too (for whatever THAT’S worth).

You’ve probably noticed in the time you’ve been on here that there are a few ….I don’t know if “factions” is the right word….maybe groups of people that are regulars on here. People like Don M, Jeff of Nova, George, shag beta sigma, Original Chuck P, NJ, Manny, myself of course, there are others that I can’t think of (sorry)…..that group tends to be more positive about things. So much so that we sometimes are criticized for it as though supporting the moves the Phillies make are bad. I’ve even been called a “Ruben apologist” and been accused of “working for the Phillies”.

And there are those like Jeff, mikemike, some clown named Just Crushed (who I haven’t seen in awhile), and ,again, others……who just complain and bash EVERYTHING the Phillies do. To them, if the Phillies finish 99-63 this year, the team will “suck” because it didn’t win 100 games. It becomes constantly frustrating to read some of their posts…it’s tiresome.

And then there are those that just like to stir the pot. They’re good people, harmless, and mostly positive. They are really good fans. They offer opinions that sometimes are pretty far-fetched and do it, I think, just to get a rise out of some of us. Sometimes it is funny and sometimes it’s just plain ridiculous. And sometimes….gulp!….they actually make sense. The head of that group has to be Dipsy. (Dip, I love ya, you know that).

Pat Gallen and Co. have done a great job offering us a variety of topics to argue and talk about. Some of the articles are very well written and even inspiring and some are…..well, let’s just leave it at that. Sometimes the posts deal more with the “big picture” and sometimes they can get bogged down with too many stats (which is fine…stats are good) But that’s what make this site so great. Whether you agree, disagree or are somewhere in the middle…it’s never boring.

So feel free to jump in anytime and offer YOUR two cents. Who cares if you think you aren’t “nearly as knowledgeable”. I’d be willing to bet that you’re moreso than some of the posters on here. And it doesn’t matter anyway. All opinions are welcome. Sometimes it will be recieved well and sometimes you might be criticized. So what. It’s a sports blog. (A very good one).

Some sites (not all) that I frequent that tend to help are mlbtraderumors.com

phillies.com (for just basic news of the team),

baseballreference.com (great for getting stats on any player or any team in the history of the game).

thefightins.com is a funny site for some “off-the-wall-stuff.

I’m sure there are others that I’m not thinking about right now. Other posters will undoubtedly have some suggestions too.

Of course the larger picture as an analysis and synthesis of a major theme or topic is not the same as a generalization. No one should fall prey to generalization, which is why, for example, the term front-runner offends many long-term fans who have finally lately felt that wonderful intoxication of being at the top. I don’t think O. Chuck P meant to generalize about the POV of older vs. younger generations, but rather to offer an observation that does have a logical basis to some extent. Having endured those “many years of futility” as it was so aptly put, I know I may be more inclined to over-react when it comes to our window of opportunity for the opposite, and that certainly could be a contributing factor for some other older fans. But all else being equal, individual personality contributes as well; what looks like a porthole to some can look like a sliding-glass door to others.

What I love about Philliesnation is not only the intelligent debate and alternative perspectives, but those occasional big picture moments. Positivity and faith can be a lesson hard-learned when it comes to the Phils over the years, but even old dogs (no flames, just an expression!!) can learn new tricks. My visitation of this site unfortunately coincided with that occurrence which to which we may no longer refer, about which I had intended to make a one-time larger-picture post. Really. Not kidding.

Given the theme of this thread, in stepping back to look at the big picture in my participation here, I’m thinking a dose of faith for the skeptical can be a good thing. In this new season, I’d at the very least like to try to be more of a positive and well-informed contributor. So to that end: is there anyone out there who can recommend sites (other than mlbtraderumors, espn, etc) that are particularly useful or downright mandatory so that I can *constructively* criticize at worst and properly praise at best when appropriate?

And I offer a thanks to this site in general, because while it’s nice to have a place as a Phils fan to come to read and occasionally offer opinion, it’s unusual to have such a forum actually get you to re-examine your basic outlook (I’ll start with the Phils).

No one here is being “insulting” or “denigrating”.

Simple observations were made….that’s all.

Your points are well taken….but success/failure in this town with sports and the Phillies IS a bit polarizing. Does everybody fit into that category…no, of course not.

But “older folks” …. and I’ll call them ones that clearly remember and still FEEL the ’64 collapse…..DO tend to be a bit “jaded”. But that’s not to say that some younger fans don’t feel the same way too. It’s just different….that’s all.

The “older” fans have suffered more simply because they have been around longer. I fail to see how that’s an insult.

Please refrain from denigrating older folks, who probably aren’t complaining any more than some of the youngsters. Sports in general are polarizing, but it has more to do with personal bias than with age. Saying the older generations are grumpy is like saying that women are compulsive shoppers or black people have natural rhythm. It’s way off base, and extremely insulting.

And, yeah…put me in the younger category as well. I remember some bad teams in the 80s…..but I really have MORE memories of success than I do failure.

But I understand why the older generation feels as they do….I mean, how long did those poor souls suffer??

_____

Ok…let’s see what Escalona has today?? 6-2 Phils in the 8th!!