Phils Scout Wrong White Sox Relievers
Posted by Michael Baumann, Mon, May 24, 2010 01:12 PM | Comments: 62
Analysis, Posts
It has been reported that agents of Philadelphia subterfuge are in Chicago. According to the rumor, Phillies scouts are examining two White Sox relievers, J.J. Putz and Bobby Jenks.
It’s good to see that the Phillies, having witnessed the rash of injuries to their late-inning relievers (Lidge, Romero, Madson) in recent months (and the maddening inconsistency of Danys Baez and David Herndon) are taking steps to rectify the situation. I’d even say that the White Sox, now seven games under .500 after being expected to contend for the division title, are in a position to cut payroll and throw in the towel on the season. The Sox also have a surfeit of effective relief pitching. As such, they’d be a perfect trading partner to the Phillies, a team trying to find a solution to its most dangerous weakness.
But Jenks and Putz aren’t the White Sox relievers the Phillies ought to be looking at.
Because he’s not a closer and he pitches in a different league and a different time zone, I’d wager that many of you have never heard of Matt Thornton. But if he’s not the best reliever in the game, he’s in the conversation.
Thornton is a 6-foot-6, 34-year-old lefty who finished last year second among relief pitchers in WAR, behind only Jonathan Broxton. This season, he’s struck out 26 batters and issued only two unintentional walks in 17 IP. Over the past three seasons, batters swing and miss at his pitches in the strike zone almost 20% more often than the average pitcher. He throws hard (his fastball averages about 96 mph), gets ground balls, misses bats, and doesn’t walk batters. Worried about him being a lefty-only guy? His career platoon splits are negligible. There is literally nothing more you could ask of a reliever than what Thornton has delivered to the White Sox this season.
Are Putz and Jenks serviceable relievers? Certainly. Putz is having a good season, and has had even better in recent years (last year’s meltdown with the Mets notwithstanding). Jenks is the co-owner of the record for most consecutive batters retired, has a blistering fastball, and has been generally solid since taking over the closer’s role for Chicago in 2005. But both are flawed. Putz did melt down last year, and Jenks, in addition to always having had control problems, has seen his strikeouts drop and his home runs go up.
Are Putz and Jenks as good as anything the Phillies have? Sure. But Thornton’s better than either. The Phillies have traded for quality pitching often and wisely over the past three seasons, but they have paid dearly for Lidge, Blanton, Lee, and Halladay in both money and in young talent. If they trade for some combination of Jenks, Putz, and Thornton, they will pay dearly again from an increasingly thin pool of bargaining chips. So if you’re going to give up what few prospects you have left, it makes sense to get the best. And the best is Matt Thornton.
Posts: 0 Bob in Bucks
I agree with Dipsy that Ibanez does suck. His power is virtually gone and he appears at times to be more interested in walking than hitting. However, the Dodgers see that too. Would the Dodgers do the deal? Only to reduce payroll but it would be only for six months – they get stuck with Ibanez in 2011 so the net dollar effect is not positive for the Dodgers. This makes it unlkely UNLESS the Phillies eat part of the 2011 Ibanez contract.
Would the Phils do the deal? Now that I think about it, it’s possible but still unlikely.. Manny costs about $8 million more but assuming it is mid year that would be $4 million. It is possible if you view it as an investment to drop the 2011 Ibanez contract obligation which gives you room to sign Werth and bring up Brown to play LF at the minimum. Problem is how much of 2011 Ibanez do the Phils have to carry?
Trade Rollins and keep Werth! “Heart and soul” is a song, not a reason to do something.
Posted: 01:13 PM on May 25, 2010
Posts: 0 branderson
Trade Rollins and keep Werth? Are you kidding me. Keep both if possible. Rollins is not going anywhere so don’t even start that nonsense. Let’s not forget Rollins is a clubhouse leader, 07 MVP and has been pivotal for the Phils. He gets injured this season and you wanna boot him? Get real. What were you a Phillies fan starting November 2008?
Posted: 01:20 PM on May 25, 2010
Posts: 0 Chuck
Yeah, it’s amazing how a guy turns 30, gets hurt, and it’s like “What have you done for me lately?” When Rollins gets back, is healthy, and leads the Phils to their third straight WS appearance all you naysayers won’t be anywhere to be found.
Next topic….????
Posted: 01:32 PM on May 25, 2010
Posts: 0 Phan in the outfield
Sigh, ok look, it’s all been said now. It’s just – wow – anyone who believes Werth is the sole reason they haven’t signed him yet sure has drunk the organizational PR Kool Aid. This org has found it in their deep DEEP MAINLINE pocketbooks to make the big payouts to Utley & Howard for yrs, & to Ibanez for the past couple of yrs. In fact they rather boldly signed Howard far in advance of necessity for an extraordinary sum in the face of Werth’s impending FA. Imagine how you’d feel, and what you’d think. Yeah, yeah, it’s a game & it’s a business, nothing personal. Right. Believe me, you’d take it personally. But ooo quite suddenly they CAN’T pay Werth who has shown that he’s signif to this team, that he has the work ethic, & he has made it very clear that he wants to stay? Their PR doesn’t make sense.
And any talk of trading Werth, mid-season, from this team that wants to make the playoffs, is laughable. Frankly if these owners want to keep this team winning for the foreseeable future, they need to sign him.
But I’ll tell ya, their behavior sure has every other team & their city newspapers chomping at the bit. It seems they all think more of Werth than these owners do, and it seems they all think they’ll sign him b/c the Phila Phillies have not yet. It doesn’t look good. They look like they don’t respect hard-working, nice guys, who want to be here. If I were on another team & the Phillies wanted to sign me – I might think long & hard about putting my sig on that line.
Posted: 01:35 PM on May 25, 2010
Posts: 0 Chuck
Tell you what Phan…. how about YOU call up Ruben Amaro…better yet, David Montgomery…..and suggest that you conduct the negotiations for Jayson Werth….since you seem to know so much about the inner workings of this organization.
Give this some time to work itself out. My money is on Werth staying here…..and being resigned my the AS break. Just a feeling…I could be wrong.
Posted: 01:48 PM on May 25, 2010
Posts: 0 Phan in the outfield
I’ve never once acted as though knew anything. That, in fact, is my point. The only thing any of us DO know is what Werth has said & how much each of the players I mentioned have been paid. It’s also a pretty decent bet that the owners have been consistenly making a heck of a lot of money since they have always lived, and continue to live, on the Mainline. Do you live there? I don’t. But I know one or two ppl who do. That money is old, passed down, and going nowhere.
Everyone else seems to know far more definitively what’s going on & exactly who should be traded where & when.
My post wasn’t meant to be ‘personal’ or AT anyone in particular. But it’s kind of disturbing how you seem to take offense every time I post anything.
I’m fine waiting this out but it seems no one else is b/c this topic is in near constant discussion. But if we can’t state opinions here w/o ppl getting disgruntled then I guess I don’t understand what the purpose of a ‘blog’ is.
Posted: 02:01 PM on May 25, 2010
Posts: 0 Chuck
No, I don’t live on the Mainline. But you are categorizing everyone who lives there. The fact that some of the owners live there has ZERO to do with whether or not Werth will be resigned.
Posted: 02:07 PM on May 25, 2010
Posts: 0 iSportacus » Blog Archive » Phils Getting Oswalt? Don’t Be a Putz
[...] They might, however, go after White Sox pitcher JJ Putz. He commands a mere $3 million, and things are not looking good for the White Sox these days. Again, I’m not sure what the Phils have to trade to get him. They are also looking at Bobby Jenks, but I’m not sure he’s worth the $7.5 million he’s owed this year. Philliesnation says that the Phils are overlooking the best White Sox reliever of the bunch. [...]
Posted: 04:36 PM on May 25, 2010
Posts: 0 bfo_33
Phan, no one deserves to get beat up for an opinion (even if you want Manny on the Phils), but some of your statements are off base:
“If I were on another team & the Phillies wanted to sign me – I might think long & hard about putting my sig on that line”
The Phils have the 4th highest payroll in MLB and with the exception of Halladay, who signed a discount to go to a winner (and live near home during spring training) have been more than generous with contracts to Moyer, Ibanez, Polanco, and extensions to Howard, Vic, Ruiz, and Blanton. To say the front office is giving the wrong image to future potential free agents because they haven’t extended Werth yet is out of line with reality.
Werth has repeatedly stated that he has played his whole career for this moment – the shot at free agency. Maybe the Phils approached him, maybe not, but this front office has not been cheap (again, the 4th highest payroll in baseball, next year, likely to be the 3rd – Cubs looking to shed contracts). Opinions are fine, but when taking an uniformed shot, expect to be called out on it.
Posted: 04:43 PM on May 25, 2010
Posts: 0 psujoe
Werth is staying.
Bull Pen will be fine.
Maybe need another starter depending on Happ. Other than that stay put unless you can get a solid reliever for cheap.
Posted: 04:55 PM on May 25, 2010
Posts: 0 Dave S
Bob in Bucks nailed the argument that I would make. A 2011 OF of Brown/Vic/Werth should be what we want.
Posted: 02:18 PM on May 26, 2010
Posts: 0 Karla Riffee
Lincoln Biller
Posted: 12:33 AM on July 31, 2010