Halladay’s Quality Outing Again Ends in a Phillies Defeat

Posted by Pat Gallen, Sun, June 20, 2010 05:04 PM | Comments: 122
2010 Game Recaps, Posts, Video

For the first 17 innings of this series against the Minnesota Twins, it appeared to be the start of a breakout. The Phillies had beaten Nick Blackburn easily in the opener on Friday, giving the Phillies their third win in a row. On Saturday, Kevin Slowey was rocked and lasted just 1 2/3 innings before the epic bullpen collapse in the ninth inning.

Before that unheard of ninth inning where the Phillies gave up five runs, a sweep was well within reach. With a victory on Saturday, and Roy Halladay pitching today against Carl Pavano, it wasn’t such a far fetched thought. That’s why they play the game.

Halladay and the Phils were beaten by Pavano and the Twins 4-1 on Father’s Day and the possibility of a sweep quickly became a series loss.

Doc was his normal strike-throwing self as he struck out eight and did not allow a free pass, but he was hit hard in every inning. Halladay allowed solo homers to Denard Span and Justin Morneau and RBI singles by Joe Mauer and Jason Kubel in the defeat as Minnesota rocked the Phils starter for 10 hits in his eight innings on the mound. His final line included just three earned runs, making this his third loss of the season when he’s gone at least eight innings and given up three earned or less. Bad luck? Could be. There is some room for the blame to be placed on a very unstable lineup.

That lineup today produced just four hits and the lone run was contributed by the now-powerful Wilson Valdez. It was the shortstop’s second home run in as many games. Kind of odd, considering it had been six years between the first home run of his career and yesterday’s homer. Certainly it’s nice to see Valdez hitting it out rather than hitting into double plays, however, he was today’s lone bright spot.

Pavano, who had been tagged by the Phillies more than once in his career, was lights out. He went the distance and threw 105 pitches, 76 for strikes. All day long he kept the Phils bats off-balance with a great fastball/sinker/changeup/slider mix.

When asked whether yesterday’s mind-blowing loss trickled into today’s lackluster performance, Shane Victorino said absolutely not. “Last night’s loss was a fluke, but again, you don’t carry that over into today, you forget about it.”

What did carry over was the offense’s inability to provide Halladay with any sort of cushion. In his last six starts, he’s thrown 43 2/3 innings, but has been given just nine total runs of support. That’s a scary thought. What’s also scary is that the Phillies are now 5.5 games behind the Braves who have jumped to 42-28.

If they want to catch them, they’ll need to start now.

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About Pat Gallen

Pat Gallen has written 1668 articles on Phillies Nation.

Pat is Editor-in-Chief of Phillies Nation. He also covers the Phils for 97.5 FM in Philly.

  • Posts: 0 Wis

    We need some tricks up our sleeves. We just keep unloading the same bullshit every game when we are in a jam. If we could put some innings together the way these twins did when they were down, we could really get back on track. our squad is just too predictable. the big guys are always swinging for the fence and it is not working out when it is crucial…so change it up..?

    Get some plan B’s together and look like your fired up for shit sake.

    The turnaround was ruined when we cheered for Thome. thats when it all started. I am all about respect and sportsmanship, but I never give my competitor an edge in the market place, I don’t care what my past history is with that individual.

  • Posts: 0 teejvee

    The odds are very long against them making the post season this year.

    The two teams ahead of them are vastly improved this year and if either gets Cliff Lee, those odds go up even further.

    Other than the Braves, no team has done it 4 years in a row since the 20′s.

  • Posts: 0 Rob5000

    There are still literally almost 100 games left in this season and you all need to chill the eff out. Let’s get the team on the field that we all saw on opening day. Rollins will be back soon which is a good thing. If they can’t break out with all of their big ticket guys then I’ll start worrying. For right now I’m just sitting tight. (though I’ve now paid twice to see Roy halladay and both games were losses… Which is disenchanting to say the least)

  • Posts: 0 NickFromGermantown

    Chuck, you are absolutely right. People are entitled to make whatever they want. But what you CAN do is different from what you SHOULD do. This is a team game. I don’t understand how anyone can defend this contract. How much money does he need? This contract is fraught with risk and anyone who doesn’t realize that needs to wake up.

    And remember, it’s you and I that pay his contract. The Phillies may sign the check, but we are the ones who buy the tickets and watch the TVs.

  • Posts: 0 NickFromGermantown

    teejvee, what are you talking about? The Yankees made the World Series from 1997-2001 and won it the first 3 times.

  • Posts: 0 NickFromGermantown



  • Posts: 0 Ryan Morrison

    I agree with Rob. I think the problem with all of us is that we are hitting the panic button in the month of JUNE. I mean seriously. The Phils haven’t exactly played terrible against a Twins ball club that is leading their division and hits the laces off of the baseball. Meanwhile, the Braves are playing a AAA team AT BEST in the Royals. Yes, they are 5.5 games ahead and yes the Phils need to get their crap together but there is plenty of baseball to be played yet. Just remember September of 2007.

  • Posts: 0 Hot dogs

    just when you think they turned the corner. I like Howard I think his contract will be in line when it increases, through the whole slump his numbers have been ok and last week he started killing the ball. What kills me is latley with the game on the line he is not having a good at bat. Saturdays blow up would be forgotten if he got a hit in the ninth. He took the first pitch for a ball wich was a good sign then struck out on three pitches out of the zone. Earlier in the game the fox interview with the twins manager he said they were trying to pitch around him in the second when he hit the home run. If he was more patient maybe he works a walk then we have three men on with one out. These are the kind of plays the 08-09 phillies made. Yesterday Shane did not need to throw behind the runner.

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    The fact that someone would suggest that any player should feel some type of “moral obligation” to take less than than the most he can get is ridiculous. I think the question should be asked in the inverse: “Why should someone take less?” Then you don’t have a real good answer. Some players consider outside issues when signing and that may result in the team getting a break SEE: Halladay, Roy. Some will not. I guarantee you Jayson Werth will bleed every dime from whatever teams he signs with. And he should. Whenever a players salary is way too high and/or too long and the player underperforms it, it is the team’s fault. SEE: IBANEZ, Raul, or a more extreme case is Vernon Wells. Go Phils.

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 Jeff

    The bottom line is Howard had 2 years left on his current deal. Why not wait. See how it plays out. Now you have tied up 125 million for five years for a player in his 30s. Same with Jimmy. They picked that option up so quickly. Why not wait. He seems to be breaking down a little. Just do not understand. Jr. wanted Halladay so bad he stopped at nothing to get him. We might a great trade for Lee. Pay the man. Instead we give away huge prospects to get Roy and get crap back for Lee. Giving Blanton more money. Makes so much sense. We already knew this bullpen was bad and they did nothing to help it. Just get rid of Brad already..

  • [...] Halladay's Quality Outing Again Ends in a Phillies Defeat … [...]

  • Posts: 0 Marc H

    Saturday’s bullpen meltdown bothered me. This team’s flat, disinterested response both after the game and in their play the next day bothered me even more.

    It’s getting late really early around here

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    I agree. TIMING of the deal seemed wrong. But who’s to say that Howard won’t earn every penny of it. Look…the guy shows up early for spring….works hard…..loses weight…etc, etc, etc.

    And his numbers this season are just fine. .290/14/51…..with 95 games left to play.

    As long as he continues to put up those kind of stats….and keeps himself in shape….then my feelings are that the contract will be fine..In fact, it MAY even seem like a bargain in 4-5 years. Who really knows??

  • Posts: 0 George

    The Phils could sign two quality starters, a closer, and a setup man for Howard’s $25 million? What in the world are you smoking, Peter Wrinkles?

    And I don’t think anyone is being critical of Halladay. MY point was that Halladay has lost a few games which could not be blamed on the offense. He’s an ace, yes, but once in a while even an ace has a bad day.

    I also believe that extending Rollins was a good move. Maybe he’s breaking down but maybe not. Even with his extension he’s not all that expensive, he’s a vital piece, the Phils don’t have anyone to take over the position in the near future, and an equal talent would no doubt cost as much or more.

    The same arguments could be made for Howard.

    And I’m awfully tired of hearing that Howard is in decline. Overall batting average: up. Fielding: improved. Strikeouts: down. Batting average against lefties: up. He’s also hit a number of breaking balls into the seats. There’s more to hitting than home runs, and Howard has always had periods when he doesn’t hit any for a while. He’s also hit several homers in the past few days, so his power IS still there.

  • Posts: 0 George

    One final thought:

    Yes, there is something wrong with the current team. So far, there have been injuries to SIX key players (Rollins, Happ, Blanton, Madson, Lidge, Romero), three of whom are still out. There have been minor injuries to Castro, Ruiz, and Schnieder. Bastardo, the secondlefty bullpen piece is now on the DL, and Ruiz has missed the past few games and may miss more. It’s hard to look confident with a lineup filled with subs.

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    It amazes me that the same people that are complaining that Rollins shouldn’t have been extended are the same ones that are anxiously waiting for his return to the lineup.

  • [...] Halladay's Quality Outing Again Ends in a Phillies Defeat … [...]

  • Posts: 0 Phan in the outfield

    Morris Buttermaker: I KNEW they’d lose around the 5th. I got so angry at myself for watching when there was no bloody reason to. Last season, I never thought they’d lose until both teams were in the clubhouse. I still felt good about how they’d played, how they carried themselves, & how they spoke about the team, their place in it, and the coaches. They were then, and I believe they still are now a cut above.

    I HOPE I’M WRONG (it’s just a feeling) but there’s something wrong with this team and the mood that somehow extends beyond injuries or whatever. I can’t get a bead on it. I know it sounds ridiculous but they aren’t happy. It’s wrenching to see. Everything about them seems down: their body language, their eyes, their lack of indiv. confidence, their lack of ease w/ea other. They don’t even tag each other after a play with any real enthusiasm. If any guys can make me eat my words it’s them but I just don’t think there will be any comebacks this yr.

  • Posts: 0 Matt M

    Wow some of these comments are really pessimistic and it makes you wonder who has really been paying attention the last three years. People are really overreacting about how far back they are. Let’s go back to ’06 when they were under .500 for much of the season and they had a fire sale. What happened? They went on an amazing run and were robbed of the Wild Card because of a missed call in Washington. Then in ’07 they trailed the Mets for almost the whole year and didn’t see first place until the last series of the season.

    In ’08 they were four back of the Brewers and four and a half back of the Mets and we know how that season ended. Last year on July 1st they were two games over .500 when the Mets came to CBP. Does this team have some issues? Yes, but so does every team in baseball. The Braves aren’t going to hit like this for much longer and the Mets’ patchwork rotation is coming back down to earth.

    The easy fixes for this team are getting rid of Dobbs and re-calling Mayberry, find another arm for the pen and dumping Baez(Mathieson deserves a longer look than what he was given, also another lefty wouldn’t hurt), and finally Happ and Rollins need to come back healthy and stabilize the rotation and lineup. This team is going to be fine and they are still the most talented team in the NL.

  • Posts: 0 Matt M

    George-The losses to Boston and New York are the only games Halladay lost this year that I wouldn’t blame on the offense.

  • Posts: 0 Jeff

    What scares me about Halladay is, he is getting crushed against good teams. Yankees, Red Sox, Twins, etc. He is our star ace. Should not happen. I will tell you I still have not gotten over that game Saturday. 5 RUNS IN THE 9TH. Are you kidding me. Horrible. We should of beaten up on the Twins. Could of stayed right with the Braves. Terrible.

  • Posts: 0 Phan in the outfield

    The Braves are playing for Cox’s last season. The freaking Mets – please – yeah okay, they’re bound to tank at some point. But the truth is they both have softer scheds than us. They also have owners willing to spend through the roof too.

    I agree with Matt M – the Phils are one of the, if not the most talented team in baseball. The line-up is coveted by other coaches. And I don’t think that some major shake-up should happen in order to “fix” whatever problem is wrong here. But there seems to be a real issue somewhere that this team is unfamiliar with. Can they fix it? Sure. Will they? Probably. Will they do it in enough time to win the division? That’s another question entirely. But I do think there’s something in them that enjoys being considered the “underdogs”. So maybe that will help.

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Jeff…we have had PLENTY of games like that over the years. ALL TEAMS DO. Yes…it was frustrating….but not a deal-breaker.

    I would hardly call Halladay getting “crushed” yesterday. 8 innings pitches, 8 K’s and 3 ER is NOT being crushed.

    The Phillies couldn’t hit Pavano yesterday (give him props…he pitched a good game). If the Phillies score 5 runs it’s a different story.

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy


    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 Matt M

    One thing I’ve been trying to look for but can’t find is how the Phillies play defensively behind Halladay compared to the other pitchers on the staff. And I’m not just talking about fielding% but some of the advanced numbers for them. It seems like they make some really stupid plays and don’t get to as many balls when Halladay pitches.

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    I guess by some of the comments on here we should really consider trading Halladay by the deadline. He’s certainly not living up to what was advertised. He probably won’t win 30 games now (only 20). And he getting “crushed” by good teams (you know…giving up 3 runs in 8 innings).

    Oh God!! The sky is falling!!!!!!!

  • Posts: 0 Peter Wrinkles, jr.

    Didn’t Christ say to Apostle Thomas (Doubting Thomas), “Blessed are those who do not see yet still believe?” I hope the ‘Doubting Thomas”fans, including myself, are all wrong. And the ‘Believers’ are all correct.

  • Posts: 0 Jeff

    Read this article…so true

    A league source tells YES Network’s Jack Curry that the Philadelphia Phillies “would love” to get starter Cliff Lee back. We know for a fact that Ruben Amaro wants another starting pitcher because he’s already talking to Pedro Martinez.

    “Spoke to baseball official who has regular contact w Phils. He said they are itching to add a starter and would love to get Cliff Lee back,” Curry tweets.

    How on Earth could this trade even happen at this point? What would the Seattle Mariners even want for him? I’m sure they don’t want Phillippe Aumont back. He was recently sent down to Single-A ball, which, for those of you not familiar with baseball, is a demotion when you used to be pitching in Double-A.

    The Phillies got what appears to be next to nothing in the Lee trade despite Amaro telling us that he had to move the stud lefthander in order to replenish the farm system. How is that working out?

    Would a trade involving Jayson Werth suit you? If I had said that a month ago, I’d probably have received death threats. But what about now? Have you looked at Seattle’s offense? It’s wretched.

    We know that Dom Brown ain’t going anywhere, so forget that. That would be an awful decision. How about packaging Kyle Kendrick and Greg Dobbs? Is that too much to give up for Lee?

    But let me also add this to the mix. The report says that they would love to have Lee back. And I think we can all agree that that statement is true. They’d also love to have Tim Lincecum and Jason Heyward too (and maybe even a pony), but it doesn’t mean that’s happening. This move would be unprecedented as far as my memory serves and would require the Phillies to swallow a large scoop of pride.

    But I guess anything is possible, even if it’s not likely.

    So I’ll ask: What would you be willing to give up (if anything) to get Cliff Lee back?

  • [...] Halladay's Quality Outing Again Ends in a Phillies Defeat … [...]

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Because Cliff Lee is THE answer, right?? What??….he’s been elevated to a God-like status??

    Give me a break…..

  • Posts: 0 Jeff

    hey chuck did you watch him pitch in the world series? please name me who we got in return for him? thanks

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Jeff. Let me answer that. Its not, “what would be willing to give up?”, its “what would they be willing to take?”

    My answer: Joe Blanton and Ryan Madson. It looks assinine on its face but dig a little deeper and see if you can feel my reasoning. Joe Blanton is a solid #3 starter in the major leagues. Could be a #2 for half the teams. He pitches a lot of innings and keeps you in games. He is also owed about 22m over the next three years. To me, for a pitcher like Blanton, that’s value. And he gives a team cost certainty because he’s signed and not anywhere. For a team reloading for next year OR building for two years down the line, he is a good fit. Madson represents good value too at $4.8 through ’11. Teams believe he is a closer in waiting. He’s got great stuff. At worst he is a real good set up man and what is the market value for one of those.? My guess would be above 4.8m.

    Thats what I would give up. Seattle would like the deal because they are getting good talent at a good price for multiple years. I think that would appeal to them. This is not the deal to put them over the top but its certainly one that would help them.

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 Matt M

    Jeff-What does getting Cliff Lee back solve? It’s just going to hollow out the minors even more by trading someone like a Jarred Cosart, and it won’t fix a (for the most part) inconsistent bullpen, or upgrade the bench, which are really hurting this team right now. And you know he’s not going to stay here and who knows what they’ll do with the two picks they would receive as compensation.

  • Posts: 0 teejvee

    If Seattle would take Werth and Kendrick for Lee, I’d do it .
    I think Werth is gone anyway.

    But that trade makes no sense for them

    The only thing they would want is Brown.

    I can’t see the Phillies going that route.

    But this talk is way too premature.
    By the trade deadline , the Phillies could be 8-9 games back and out of it.

    Or right in the thick of it .

    If the former, the Lee deal makes no sense.

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    And it comes down to this….Cliff Lee wants…and will probably get….a multi-year deal that the Phillies and probably 27 other teams won’t give him.

    So guess what?? Next year he’s a Yankee or a Met.



    answers to your questions: 1) Yes. I watched the World Series….just about every pitch. and 2) Aumont, Gillies, Ramirez.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    we lose a series 2-1 to the Red Sox, one of the better teams in baseball

    we win a series 2-1 against the Yankees, the best team in baseball

    we lose a series 2-1 against the Twins, one of the best teams in baseball

    4 wins,5 loses … 2 of the loses get attached to Roy Halladay

    all of those games were without Jimmy Rollins, JA Happ, and Ryan Madson… Jose Contreras has been great, but maybe Madson holds that Saturday Twins loss?

    Regardless.. the phillies will be alright, Cliff Lee isn’t coming here. .

    Amaro said last Wednesday night that getting Rollins, Happ, and Madson back on the roster “is 3 great additions/trades for the 2nd half of the season”

  • Posts: 0 NickFromGermantown

    I wasn’t saying that there is a moral obligation here. I’m saying that if you are a team player who already has more money than you’ll ever know what to do with, your primary concern should be to help your team win championships. That $5MM per year could easily be spent on another component that improves the team with no material impact to his personal life. That’s not a moral obligation. It’s called not being selfish.

  • Posts: 0 Phan in the outfield

    Ayy! Enough with Cliff Lee. I don’t think that article was real. I can’t believe Amaro would even have the guts to bring it up. Lee is gone and he isn’t coming back. Next discussion.

  • Posts: 0 psujoe

    FYI, Howard is on pace for another 123 RBI’s with no Jimmy in the lineup. In other words he’ll end up with another 140 RBI.

    Lee isn’t coming back.

  • Posts: 0 Peter Wrinkles, jr.

    I’ve read about this guy ‘The Dipsy.” All good things. His solution to acquire Cliff Lee is compelling. He should be a baseball analyst. Good stuff, and very compelling. Cliff would be a nice addition. This Dipsy fellow (I assume Dipsy is a fellow, but could be a gal) is on the ball. A problem solver. Keep the ideas flowing, Dipsy. And, thanks.


    Ruben A……… I mean Peter Wrinkles, Jr.

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    So now we’re calling Ryan Howard “selfish” because he’s getting paid what he’s probably worth??

    again….at the end of the year, Howard’s numbers will something like .280 / 40 / 130-140.

    Any complaints about that??


    interleague play (this stretch) : so far, 4-5

    I we even just go 3-3 vs the Indians and Jays, that 7-8…basically .500.

    I think most of us would take that if you consider the Phillies struggles in interleague over the years.

  • Posts: 0 Phan in the outfield

    Nick: Intellectually, in theory, we understand what you’re saying. In a perfect world, that outcome would be lovely. But the truth is being unselfish is just flatout not human. Human beings are survivalists and that means selfish. Sports teams are not the Titanic, nobody is saving their child, wife, or mother here from certain death. It’s not the players job to do the financial work, and it shouldn’t be. The FO & the owners deal with the finances. Players – well – uh, play. Some work harder than others, some play better than others, but that’s another discussion.

  • Posts: 0 Jeff

    Thanks Chuck and were are all three of those guys? We gave a way a big time pitcher for crap. I understand our offense stinks at times and our bullpen is garbage. the bottom line you will not win a series with our starters against big teams. Moyer, blanton, Hamels. It has to scare some. Lee, and Doc feel much better about winning. I just hope we are not 10 behind the braves. we play them soon and need a sweep.

  • Posts: 0 Matt M

    Jeff-Hamels is having a very good year. He and Doc are a very dangerous 1-2 combination come October, and Blanton has been surprisingly effective in the playoffs.

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    So now you’re “scared” when Hamels pitches?? He’s been as consisitent a #2 as there is this year.

    And Moyer has surprised us all.

    As for the guys we got in the Lee deal: did you really expect Bob Gibson, Willie Mays and Rollie Fingers to suddenly appear?

    Sometimes it takes a few years before guys like that can make an impact.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    I don’t think people know how many games are in a full-season of baseball

    its 162 …. so we don’t “need a sweep” against the Braves

    we don’t need to trade Werth away..

    what we need is a healthy lineup, with their Leadoff hitter and Gold glove SS.. and we need the “fans” to have a little faith in this team.

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Oh, and Jeff…we just won a series against the best team in baseball…..WITHOUT Halladay getting one of the wins.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Didn’t they change Aumont’s arm-angle in the spring?

    which would explain why he’s having some trouble with his consistency and throwing strikes … but they’re trying to save stress on his arm, and make his sinker heavier

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Hamels, Myers, Moyer, Blanton


    Halladay, Hamels, Blanton …Moyer/Kendrick/Happ

    the first rotation already won a World Series.. which means that the second (our current) should definitely be good enough to get the job done

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    From here on out think 2 of 3…..

    With 95 games remaining that’s a 63-32 record. That means that the Phillies would win 98 games.

    Even if they only went 57-38 they would win 92 games.

    Most likely anything around 92 wins gets them a playoff spot.

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