The Phillies Are Failing Roy Halladay

Posted by Corey Seidman, Wed, June 30, 2010 05:55 PM | Comments: 64

It’s gettin’ old.

The Phillies lost yet another start of Roy Halladay‘s on Wednesday, falling 4-3 to the Reds. Doc went complete, allowing thirteen hits (but no walks) and striking out ten.

If one were to simply look at the box score, a statement like “Halladay did not pitch well” might ring true, but the fact of the matter is that the best pitcher in baseball was again brilliant on this particular day.

Halladay was razor-sharp through the first five innings – allowing only five baserunners to reach. Of the five, four hits were on very good pitches.

Doc made two mistakes all game and both left the yard. Aside from the homers of Joey Votto and Jay Bruce, Halladay scattered his hits and completely overmatched Reds batters when he needed to. Save for the perfect game – his swing-and-miss stuff has not been better in a Phillies uniform than on this day.

But in what is becoming an ugly tradition, the Phillies, as a unit, failed Roy Halladay. A patchwork lineup managed only three runs, all of which came on a fourth inning Dane Sardinha homer.

Eight other hits (all singles) were tallied, and one walk was drawn, but 1-for-6 with runners in scoring position ain’t gonna get it done.

The Phillies (3-7) have managed 27 total runs in Halladay’s last ten starts, and even THAT is misleading – take away the 9-0 Blue Jays win and the Phils have scored a mere 2.0 runs per game for Doc since May 12. Unacceptable.

Offensive woes are one thing, but the Phillies defense has been equally shoddy for Halladay – committing nine errors in his starts. Zack Greinke is the only major league pitcher whose defense has erred more on his behalf – the Royals have committed 10 errors for the reigning AL Cy Young.

Poor plays were made today by Ryan Howard and Jayson Werth, each of whom played balls they should have caught into doubles. Neither were officially scored as errors, but the trend strangely continued.

There is absolutely no explanation for the poor defense behind Halladay. The Phillies have been an excellent defensive unit for several seasons, and Halladay is the perfect pitcher to field for – he works extremely fast, throws strike after strike, and keeps you on your toes.

Remember the preseason predictions of 22-4 for Doc? Or 20-6? Or how about the fans and analysts taking it a step further and (unrealistically) predicting 30 wins?

Well, due to no fault of his own, Roy Halladay is 9-7 through 17 starts and the Phillies are 9-8 as a team when he pitches.

My question is, how many of you would have believed the above sentence in March?

Say whatever you want about the homers of Votto and Bruce. Doc was his usual dominant self on Wednesday and once again suffered an undeserved loss.

Avatar of Corey Seidman

About Corey Seidman

Corey Seidman has written 210 articles on Phillies Nation.

Corey is Analysis Editor for Phillies Nation and also writes for CSNPhilly.com.

  • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

    Somehow the old man just leaves him in.
    I mean no one saw that coming????????????????????
    Luckily my internet was out till now.
    So no real tirade.
    Halladay gets the Jeltz? No tirade.

  • Posts: 0 Heather

    “due to no fault of his own, Roy Halladay is 9-7 through 17 starts and the Phillies are 9-8 as a team when he pitches.”

    Due to NO FAULT of his own? Come on now, don’t let your Doc Love blind you to some poor starts. You can’t hang the Yanks or the Sox loss (for starters) on poor defense.

    I know you love Doc, but the hyperbole is a little much.

  • Posts: 312 Corey Seidman

    Avatar of Corey Seidman

    It’s not hyperbole. He pitched poorly against the Red Sox and Yankees and deserved to lose.

    The sentence was that he is 9-7 through no fault of his own – as in, he doesn’t deserve to be 9-7.

    Does pitching poorly in two games mean a pitcher should have seven losses?

  • [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by iPhillySports, Corey Seidman. Corey Seidman said: Just posted to @PhilliesNation: "The Phillies Are Failing Roy Halladay" – http://tinyurl.com/263k346 [...]

  • Posts: 0 Matt Kwasiborski

    We are paying 20M for a 9-7 record at this point? And I don’t think he left Toronto for this. He would be in a better position with the Jays right now then he is with the Phils.

    He needs to buckle down and not give in, even once!

  • Posts: 0 Brandon from Waldorf

    dear heather,

    stay in the kitchen and make me a sandwhich leave baseball for the men to talk about.

  • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

    Brandon come on by. We should goto a blue crabs game.

    If Roy goes 9-23 I wont say a word.

    Before the season started I said to my friends the phillies wont score for Roy and wont play good defense for him. I knew this before he ever made a pitch for the phils.

    Its a given.
    I am just wondering if this team is done. Theres a chance of it and they arent a young team. Thats problematic.

  • Posts: 0 bacardipr05

    they should of pulled him at 7th

  • Posts: 0 Philly Texan

    Dear Brandon from Waldorf,

    March your own lazy, sexist ass into the kitchen and make your damn sandwich, dickface.

    Leave the baseball talk to the non-douchbags (men and women alike).

  • Posts: 0 Kate

    I love Doc, but the biggest victim of the lack of offense this season has been Cole Hamels.

  • Posts: 0 Brian Michael

    Halladay may not totally deserve the Jeltz, but the 13 hits sealed it for me.

    I totally agree that he was left in there too long, so Manuel deserves some of the, er, credit.

  • Posts: 0 sportsphan

    I miss Clifton.

  • Posts: 0 Heather

    Corey: So you meant “9-7 through no fault of his own” as in partially deserved for when he pitched badly and partially undeserved for when his offense let him down.


  • Posts: 0 Skip Pennington

    Simpyly put, the Phillies are too old. Younger teams will eat them alive with hussle and youthful talent. Where are their talented players? Time to bring up Dom Brown.

  • Posts: 0 Corey Seidman

    What does being old have to do with what happened today? What does being old have to do with Utley and Polanco being hurt after FREAK things (slide, hit by pitch).

    Seriously, there are things wrong, but saying “the Phillies are too old” is beyond ridiculous. They’re not the Giants.

  • Posts: 0 Jordan a real Phillies fan

    Skip and waldorf why don’t you just put on a Mets shirt. The Phils aren’t to old. They have may off year. Or maybe not since they have about the same record as last year. And if they can keep a .500 record until Utley and Polly get back they will be fine.

  • Posts: 0 Jordan a real Phillies fan

    Thanks Corey. These people are ridiculous.

  • Posts: 0 Kennedy

    What gets me is that they traded Lee for non-Blue Chip prospects, over false salary constraints. I think the team is pulling about $2-2.5 Mil per home game in revenue from the park (tix, concessions, merch) alone. Add in TV Money, Merch, endorsements, etc. and they have plenty of room for Cliff Lee on payroll.

    Right now, we just need to pray Howard has a Howard summer and Werth gets his shit together. Our pitchers need Ruiz, badly.

    The Bullpen will be fine. Happ will probably spend the summer there if he can’t get back to starting, Madson is coming back soon, and Mathieson is always available as a fallback.

  • Posts: 0 Manny

    Halladay was good today but seriously, why let him stay in the game so long? It doesn’t make any sense. Contreras threw ONE pitch last night… let him finish it today… or you could’ve easily used Contreras in the 9th last night (he had warmed up and everything just for ONE pitch? Might as well leave him in and use him… it was a THREE run lead after all).

  • Posts: 0 Bobby D

    Exactly as I states earlier, the offense lost today’s game. Every Inning after the homer ended quickly and quietly.

    They’re still in good shape but they certainly have issues.

  • Posts: 0 Manny

    And yes, we gotta say it LOUD AND CLEAR, with every single day that goes by, the Lee-Mariners deal looks dumber and dumber…

    I read that there are currently 18 teams at least within 5 games of the Wild Card spot in all of baseball… that’s a lot of teams in contention! More than one is gonna need a pitcher like Lee and one of them might throw a blue-chip prospect (Montero, anyone?) to get him… Lee isn’t just a “nice” pitcher with a “great postseason”… he’s a legit No.1 ace.. hitting his prime, Cy-Young winner… It really bothers me that we practically gave him away… for whatever reason (money, prospects..) it doesn’t really matter. You don’t trade a guy like him when you’re team is a WS contender. All other contenders, regardless of money or prospects, would have loved to have him under control for a full year.

  • Posts: 0 MikeB.

    Is wrong to give Halladay the Jeltz Award for this last game. Give it to one or all of our offensive wonders who failed so miserably at the plate today. Was going to say Werth for that defensive miscue but he says the wind blew the ball away from him. Halladay was far from spectacular but he held down the Reds until late in the game and kept his team in the game. Should have been relieved after the seventh inning. Votto did a tremendous job hitting a low, inside, fast pitch for a home run off of Halladay in the 6th inning. Was not an easy pitch to hit. He turned on the pitch and put a perfectly timed golf-like swing on the ball and lined it over the left field fence. Have to give the opposing team hitters credit sometimes. As has been the case for most of June, the offense failed to support Halladay again.

  • Posts: 0 Manny

    typo: your, not you’re (ugh I really hate those)

  • Posts: 0 Kate

    So, when Hamels goes down, it’s his pitching, but when Halladay goes down, it’s all the offense’s fault?

    It’s time for Phillies fans to stop talking about Cliff Lee.

    We’re still in the race here. Just as slumps come and go, so do hot streaks. The Braves and Mets are going down by August and our boys are a second half team.

  • Posts: 0 MikeB.

    My mistake on the direction of the Votto home run. Should be right field fence, not left field.

  • Posts: 0 MikeB.

    The pitching looks like it is lining up pretty good for the Atlanta series at CBP, but not so great for the four games against the Reds unless the Phils plan to start Happ in the Reds series. Then again, they are going to have to come thru on offense to win these games.

  • Posts: 0 George

    Halladay had thrown just barely more than 100 pitches after seven, and everyone wants to take him out? He’s the ace, has gotten through many innings with seven or eight pitches, and everyone wants to take him out?

    Oh yes, let’s have Baez or Lidge come in. (Contreras is not really an everyday option due to his age.) If ANYONE from the Phils ‘pen had allowed a run or two, the SAME PEOPLE who wanted Halladay out would have complained that he should have been left in.

    And enough gripes about the Phils being too cheap to hold onto Lee. I doubt if any one of the idiots making that claim have actually seen the books. And enough gripes about the “low quality” of the prospects. They’re all years away, but haven’t been given a chance by fans who think that all trades should be for Steven Strasburg types. The Lee deal is not just beating a dead horse, it’s beating a fossilized horse.

  • Posts: 0 Corey Seidman

    Thank you, George. Seriously, thank you.

  • Posts: 0 MikeB.

    Can’t agree with you in regards to letting Halliday stay in, George. Reds are a good hitting team and Roy gave up a fair number of hits up until the eighth inning. Should have relieved him in hopes of preserving the potential victory. I read somewhere where Contreras is capable of pitching two, three days in a row or more. He has not exactly been over-working his arm lately. Charlie’s over-reliance on Halladay in this game along with the failures of the offense led to the loss. I am not a one to comment on blown losses by the bullpen. It happens.

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Dammit! Harold Katz was so STUPID for trading Moses for Ruland and Cliff Robinson. Ruland’s knee is blown and Moses led us to a championship, I don’t know anything about Roy Hinson but I know I would rather have Brad Daugherty.

    What purpose does the Lee exercise serve? Day after day. Its over. Its ok to disagree with it but enough. Its not constructive and its getting boring to read.

    Halladay is better than Lee. Its as simple as that. That little three game streak Lee went through after he got here where he got bombed? Halladay doesn’t get bombed. Ever.

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 shag beta sigma delta

    I say yes, it is not the pitch count that is the reason you take him out, he barely got out of the 7th with a questionable strike call, and the Reds were hitting him all day, I know most of you do not like our pen, but if used correctly, like today, you had Contreaous who had one pitch last night, JC had what like 10, and the rest of the pen if used correctly, can get you six outs. I really hate how some managers go from pitcher to pitcher every game, but this part of the season with injuries and how our pen shapes up, that is what you do today. Get Doc the win even if you have you use 5-6 pitchers in the last two innings bringing a different one for each batter. Charlie lives and dies by his gut, he was given Roy as his horse and believes the Hype that he has to go 9 innings every time out, you know what he doesn’t. Like the post said he was solid through 6, well in the 7th he was starting to lose it, bite the bullet and take the guy out, he is going have like 33-35 starts this year, and to get him a 7 inning win would do wonders for him.
    I am still pretty positive about this team,even if the Mutts and Braves win tonight, only 2 games back in the lose column and they have not been playing on all cyliders for 4 weeks. It is key to take all four games in Pittsburgh at worst 3 of 4 and then at least on win against the Braves if not two. If they can sweep the pirates they may be at least tied with the Braves then split with the Reds at home and hopefully after the All-Star break, Happ, Madson, Chase and Poly will be back ready to go and take the division in the second half

  • Posts: 0 karen

    Yes, Halladay has not been perfect each game. Yes, Halladay stank against Boston and the Yankees. BUT, he has been given little, if any, run support. Even his perfect game……won from an unearned run off of an error. Yes, we have injuries but Jroll, howard, raul, werth are top guys with good salaries……yet, they let roy day each and every outing.

  • Posts: 0 Nick

    Well on a positive not domonic brown hit his second homerun tonight!

  • Posts: 0 Nick

    Well on a positive note domonic brown hit his second homerun tonight.

  • Posts: 0 Heather

    Nick: I’m just wondering when Dom Brown is deemed “ready.” Why, oh why couldn’t one of our key injuries have been to an outfielder??

    I mean, not that I want anyone to get hurt…but if someone had to go down…why couldn’t it be someone Dom Brown could replace?

  • Posts: 0 mark

    The team has no identity,

    Last year , year before, this was team that bashed homers AND could steal bases AND would come back late . This team never hits homers, doesn’t run and never
    comes back.

  • Posts: 0 Heather

    BTW, 4 runs on 13 hits in 8 innings is not a “dominant” performance, like the author of this article states.

    Decent, yes. Dominant, no.

    Let’s call a spade a spade. Halladay was not “dominant” today.

  • Posts: 0 mark


    But it IS tough pitching when your team doesn’t score,

    By this time he can see when this team is going to tank, and they aren’t going to score.

    A few flukey games v Cle.and Toronto aside, this is a very bad offensive team.

  • Posts: 0 SAM


  • Posts: 0 karen

    Sam, while I expect others to dislike this….cliff lee was definately better based on the time he was here and even what he is doing in seattle. The thing that bothers me the most is that philly loved lee…..we are no better today than we were prior to halladay trade. As for the prospects traded, it is not fair to judge them now…..different systems focus on different things…

  • Posts: 0 Kevin

    I thought the same thing earlier about leaving him in, but good call on the record. Here’s our ace at 9-7. I thought, with a near perfect season, he could win 25. 20 may be a stretch at this point. How many games is this guy supposed to go that far in? I mean this is at least the second time I can think of that he has been left in too far (dare I bring up the 132 pitch LOSS to the Pirates). He’s not a machine, and Charlie needs to get that through his head. Doc will continue to throw pitches like a machine because he never wants to leave a game, but there’s a certain time in a game when enough is enough. Today proved that, and the Phillies will suffer because of it. If they want to work their way back to the top of this division, they need to play their card wiser, and make better decisions than this.

  • Posts: 0 Greg

    Karen, using facts, please explain to me Lee’s superiority to Halladay.

    *HINT*There aren’t any*ENDHINT*

  • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

    Who knew Seattle would suck with Lee. They were supposed to compete. But they arent so now they are going to turn him for a better package than the Phils got. Its going to sting.
    Why did the trade have to happen the same day as the Halladay trade?

    Must win 3 of 4 vs Pirates
    Actaully 4 of 4 might be needed.

  • Posts: 0 RobertOrr34

    Yes, Cliff Lee is pitching very well for quadruple-A Seattle, auditioning to be traded elsewhere, and Doc is 9-7, so what? Try this on for size: in his 7 losses, the Phils bats have produced 12 runs total. Let’s say they put up 3 runs a game (below average but at least some kind of offense) and he’s 11-2 with a no decision in New York and tonight. Right now. he’s pitching like an ace, and so is Hamels, but they both have been victims of the jekyll-and-hyde nature of our lineup. Also, historically, Roy is a 2nd half pitcher (3 CG in September last season), so I think a 19-9 or 20-8 record isn’t out of the question for him. Once Ubaldo returns to being a mortal pitcher, Roy is right up there in the NL Cy race, just like we expected…let’s not be soo friggin’ hasty to bash possibly the best pitchert wee’ve had in Philly since Lefty (depending on how you feel about Curt Schilling)

  • Posts: 0 ActuallyChilled

    No matter how you spin it, acknowledge this curious chain of events:

    1) Lee is one of the best pitchers in the game, if not the best right now. He’s as good as Halladay at this point. Possibly better. Don’t even argue with this.

    2) The Phillies offense is sucking. They aren’t coming back in games like earlier years.

    3) The fun seems gone with this team. The drive to win is not the same.

    Honestly I wish we had Lee. He was the right man for this team. What was the point of getting Halladay anyway? I know that he is the best pitcher over the last decade, awesome. But there is a reason the USA team loses basketball games in the olympics on a regular basis.

    I think its good to talk about Lee because we have to send a message to Phils management about what the building a winning team is about from our point of view. You don’t toss out insanely awesome pitchers for another insanely awesome pitcher. You keep the insanely awesome pitcher, keep Drabek, and trade the rest for a #2 1/2 like starter or a really good relief guy, and don’t sign Baez.

    Life is not perfect, many of us wouldn’t be saying this if the Phils were playing good ball right now. But somehow it seems that the Lee trade was cold and un-Philly like, and perhaps the players felt it.

    So much shakeup isn’t really always a good thing. Let it simmer a bit. Perhaps add a Poly at 3rd, some bench guys, and keep your Yankee killing heros for God sake.

  • Posts: 0 RobertOrr34

    Many fo your points are valid but Halladay has a much longer, proven track record as an Ace than Lee does. that’s why I would take him over Lee.
    But, Lee’s side (his agent at least) said they were blindsided by the whole of change of events, but that shouldn’t be enough to offset the good vibes from the previous two seasons (we are speaking in intngibles here so this is impossible to qualify), but when Myers and Flash Gordon left after 2008 the team just plugged in substitutels and kept rolling.
    Also, personally, I believe this offense is just as strong as the last 2-3 years, but this seems to be a resurgent year pitching-wise for everybody, so what were 15 game mini-slumps the last 2 years are 25 game mega-slumps since so many starters are having good seasons thids year. The lack of charisma I atrribute to Rolins’ prolonged absence; this is his team, and the first 2 games he came back proved it. There’s a lot to be said for missing your emotional leader, the resilience to make a comeback just isn’t there, Is it any coincidence that in his 2nd game back he knocks out a walk-off home run?

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy


    1) In my view, Lee is an excellent pitcher who is pitching great. Halladay is a great pitcher. Nobody, except for you, would take Lee if these two were standing on a playground and you had to pick one for your team. I do understand that Lee, in addition to pitching great, holds a special place with Phillies fans.

    2) Its one thing to boo a trade. To sound off. To voice dissatisfaction and let the management know you’re unhappy. Its quite another to make refer to it repeatedly with the same anger reserved for health care, oil spills, and financial regulation.

    Maybe it was cold move by RAJ. In fact, it was. But that plays into emotion and not the actual merits of the trade and that may be a factor in some of these tirades. Go Phils.

  • Posts: 0 Ted Bell

    It looking more and more like surgical stabilization will be in Chase Utley’s near future, which will put him out of action for 8-12 weeks. We may not be seeing Utley on the field again this season until late September (if at all).

    I’m Ted Bell.

  • Posts: 0 NickFromGermantown

    Some clarifications:

    - The Phillies are the oldest team in baseball.
    - Halladay is not being paid $20M this year.
    - Halladay pitched good, but not great yesterday in terms of the average pitcher.
    - The Phils need to get back to doing what they do best by hitting the ball. I they can’t do that consistently, they are in major trouble.

  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    I actually am not sold on Lee being traded…Seattle is playing better and if they can get to 500 and above by the deadline or close to it, they may be willing to open the check book for Lee. Seattle’s owners(Nintendo) have so much money its insane. They also bring in a ton of money from their Asian markets. Seattle has money and they are ok spending it. I could see them giving Lee a long term extension and this off season going all out for some bats. In my world, this would be perfect. I have no desire to see Lee pitching for the Mets.

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