Phillies Trade Deadline Thread: July 22

Posted by Pat Gallen, Thu, July 22, 2010 09:10 AM | Comments: 115
Analysis, News, Posts

8:35 am: This morning on ESPN Radio, Tim Kurkjian talked about the ongoing Roy Oswalt chatter. Kurkjian stated that the Cardinals are talking about Oswalt, because, why wouldn’t they. A top-three of Carpenter, Wainwright, and Oswalt would be virtually unbeatable in the playoffs. However, he sees a Cards/Oswalt union as unlikely because of his contract. Kurkjian believes they have to leave some money available for when Albert Pujols is ready to sign on the dotted line again.

As for the Phillies, he wonders if they, too, can get a deal done because of the finances involved. But the ESPN Insider says Oswalt might have to give up his demands to have his 2012 option picked up before a trade is finalized, if he wants to go to a contending club. Oswalt is owed roughly $6 million this season and $16 million next year before the option year comes into play.

-Late last night, Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com said that the Phillies could go without adding a pitcher altogether if they cannot grab a top arm like Oswalt or Dan Haren. Haren is an interesting case. He would cost slightly more than Oswalt as far as prospects are concerned, but his contract is friendlier. He is owed the remainder of his $8.25 million salary this season and $12.5 million in both 2011 and 2012. He has a $15 million option for 2013 or a $3.5 million buyout. There have been indications that the Phils will stretch the budget for the “right” pitcher, per Salisbury.

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  • Posts: 0 Manny

    “There have been indications that the Phils will stretch the budget for the “right” pitcher”

    Oh, like that pitcher we basically had under control for all of 2010?
    It makes my blood boil!

  • Posts: 0 Jeff

    you are right manny. this team had there guy. now we are giving up more to get a lesser pitcher. its amazing how bad of a job ruin is doing. you give lee that 9 million for this season. then sit down after and work something out.

    oswalt is now saying if the stros trade him to the cards he will give up that option. he is an a s s h o l e. who needs him. i hope they trade him to the cards. so the astros face him.

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Guys, GIVE IT UP!!!! It’s in the past….OVER. For the love of God, MOVE the EFF ON!!!!

    Ruben will do something and all will be good….IN THE LONG RUN.

    But this contstant Cliff Lee horsesh*t has got to stop already!!!

  • Posts: 0 Toady Lickspittle

    I do not believe that the Phils will do anything. This is all talk, talk, talk to get our hopes up. Top management will not spend the money and want attendance and team interest to soar despite becoming just a mediocre team.

  • Posts: 0 Red McNertney

    I think we will soon hear good news.

  • Posts: 0 Pink

    I don’t think ruben would have made such obvious hints about acquiring a pitcher if he did not intend on doing what he had to to get it done.

    Also, if they don’t get a pitcher what happens? Do they call Happ and KK back up for saturday and sunday?

  • Posts: 0 Manny

    Just let Happ pitch.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    I read that Oswalt would possibly soften his demand of the $16 M, 2012 Option being picked up, if he was dealt to the Cardinals

    from everything i’ve read on the guy, he either wants to stay in the midwest, or pitch for the Yankees ….

    Red Sox are said to be “very interested” in Jayson Werth (i see them as his likely 2011 destination, but not them trading for him)

    The Red Sox are not big fans of Jacoby Ellsbury lately, and the Rays are said to not love BJ Upton ….both would be great returns for Werth in my opinion … Ellsbury could give us a LEGIT leadoff man (Rollins could bat 5th), but Ellsbury is another Lefty (but would that matter if Rollins is still the switch hitter at #5)?

    BJ Upton has all the talent in the world, and I really think that he could learn from, and conent with Rollins and Howard …

    Mets are said to be looking to move Jeff Francouer … I think he sucks, but I also think his RH bat could be more useful than Ben Francisco.. you could probably get him for almost nothing from the Mets, and he has a laser-rocket arm in RF

    Career .268 hitter, averages 20 HRs a year (due in large part to his 29 HRs in 2006) .. 93 RBIs a year

    I wonder if Charlie and Milt could get him going at all, he’s only 26 years old

  • Posts: 0 Chris.I

    They NEED either Oswalt or Haren even if its just to rebuild for ”next season”, because the FA market next season for starting picthing isn’t impressive at all. If they don’t make a trade by midnight tonight, my guess is they wont make one at all

  • Posts: 0 Chris.I

    This feels like we went back into time to the year 1997 when nobody wanted to sign here…This is how bad this team is playing! Its really starting to become a joke

  • Posts: 0 Tusker

    Don’t get Oswalt or Haren. Wait till the offseason and get Lee. If there going to expand there budget prove it. What’s this love affair with Haran anyway. Also isn’t Oswalt 33 anf often injured. Lets keep what prospects we have left after the Raping from Ruben and come back next year with the hunger that they are seemingly missing this year. Oh yeah trade Werth.

  • Posts: 0 Pickles Rarnt

    The Phils need to start rebuilding for next season. This one is lost. They cannot score runs on a regular basis. They desperately need bullpen help. In the playoffs, if they were to make it, they would fold quickly and embarrass themselves and the city.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Oswalt is possibly the MOST underrated pitcher in baseball …

    Haren is among the most OVERrated.. I think Hamels is better.

    Lower Career ERA, the same Career WHIP, and Hamels has a better Batting Average Against… More Ks-per-9 in his career

    Cliff Lee aint coming back, in a any trades, or as a Free Agent .. he’s going to the Yankees, at something like a 5-6 year, $20 M per season contract

  • Posts: 0 Chris.I

    The Yankees are going to do whatever it takes to get Lee…Thats their main objective this offseason. My guess is that he gets close to a 8 year 175 Million dollar contract. How can the Phillies compete with that? Lee is out of the question at this point

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    How did Kershaw get suspended 5 games, but Lincecum get nothing for throwing up-and-in against Kemp … and then drilling him with the very next pitch?

    Kershaw later hit Rowand in retaliation.. but they should have the same penalty.. either 0 games, or 5 games

  • Posts: 0 Morris Buttermaker

    “but I also think his RH bat could be more useful than Ben Francisco”

    A soaking wet brown paper bag is more useful than Ben Francisco.

  • Posts: 0 pat carbone

    trade Happ and prospect for Haren. Haren is a good pitcher who has struggled at times. He is younger and cheaper and could be the number 2 on this time for 5 years. Then trade werth for wade davis. Wade davis is a future number 2 at most number three. call up dom brown and get a cheap right handed bat. This not only sets you up for the next 5 years but can salvage this season

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Yeah, Cliff Lee is NOT going to be a Phillie next year….so you goofs need to just clear that thought from your heads.

    I absolutely think that Hamels is better than Haren….and he’s 3 years younger. Still only 26!!!

    I think I would prefer Upton over Ellsbury. That’s just me.

  • Posts: 0 Chris.I

    I don’t think Hamels is better than Haren. I don’t think Hamels is better than Shields either

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    If Francisco got the chance to play everyday.. you’d see a productive player

    as is the case with every bench guy, the more they play, the more they produce

    Pat Carbone, Happ is more of a “throw-in” than someone you could center a trade around … he would be included in a trade, but not the main piece

  • Posts: 0 Tusker

    Oh brother Brad Lidge says he will talk to Oswalt


  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Chris I … look at their numbers, their ages, and then tell me how you think Haren and Shields are better than Hamels??

    …the biggest problem with Hamels isn’t anything he’s done.. its that the fans thought he would win 7 Cy Youngs in the first 4 years in the Majors

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Hamels should have 12 wins right now… instead he’s 7-7, but he’s been a legit #2 any way you look at it

  • Posts: 0 pat carbone

    ok then give them two prospects and happ for haren. doc, haren, hamels, davis for the next 5 years is golden.

  • Posts: 0 Chris.I

    Don your right…He is a #2 guy, and his 3.63 era doesn’t lie, but IMO I just don’t think hes better than Haren…Maybe I was going too far with Shields, but Shields and Hamels are almost identicle in every way.

  • Posts: 0 Josh

    Shields and Hamels are identical? How? They don’t even throw with the same hand and their stat lines are complete opposites.

    Lets not compare Hamels to scrubs. I do think Haren is a stud and would be a nice equal to Hamels as a 2 and 3 in the rotation.

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    BJ Upton: 26 years old in August….career .261 hitter, career .970 fielding pct (mostly in CF)

    Jacoby Ellsbury: 27 yrs old in Sept…..career .295 hitter, career .997 fielding pct (again mostly in CF, but has some RF and LF experience, too)
    AND….led the league in SB in both ’08 and ’09.

    Maybe I should rethink my preference….although I DO think Upton has TONS of talent and potential.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    They want TWO pitchers that they can put into their rotation RIGHT NOW, along with one or two additional propects, for Dan Haren

    I highly doubt he’s Philadelphia-bound

    The Wade Davis trade could happen, because they think Hellickson has more upside (not sure why he’s still in the minors??)

  • Posts: 0 Tusker

    Ok Oswalt is a B**** his agent just said this “he doesnt want to play anywhere that has an “aggressive media or fan base”

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    yea Oswalt wants to go to St Louis… if he waives his demand for that option year at $16 M …. that tells you how bad he wants to go there

  • Posts: 0 Ted Bell

    I think that if the Phillies ended up with Oswalt they would start losing games by 3-1 scores rather than 6-1. I guess that’s progress, but it doesn’t address the problems that will continue to exist with this lineup.

    I heard this joke yesterday:

    Q. What’s the opposite of “architect” ?
    A. “Amaro”

    I’m Ted Bell.

  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Well, we all know that St. Louis does NOT have “aggressive” fans.

  • Posts: 0 The Second John

    Is it time to give up on the season yet?

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    St. Louis doesn’t need Oswalt. I don’t understand why they would trade for him. Did St. Louis even mention that they were interested?

    Oswalt (we pick up the option)


    Kendrick (still only 25 and does have upside)
    Lidge (Houston need to eat some cash, too.)
    And a better than average prospect. (Like Freddie Galvis, etc)

    The Dispy

  • Posts: 0 The Second John

    BTW Moyer to DL.

  • Posts: 0 Publius

    Dipsy –

    Really? I mean…REALLY? You don’t know why the Cards need Oswalt? EVERY TEAM could use a front-line guy like Oswalt. A rotation of Carpenter/Wainwright/Oswalt/Garcia is a rotation that is unparalleled in depth, especially in a 5- or 7-game series. That pitching staff has AT LEAST this year and next, possibly even 2012, together, and could make the Cards an impending force for the next 3 years, regardless the offense (which still has Holliday, Pujols and a blossoming Colby Rasmus). Come 2012, the Cards will probably begin rebuilding anyways, considering how Pujols and Holliday will be 34 by then.

    As for that proposed “deal”, no way Houston takes Lidge and Kendrick, using Happ as a centerpiece, unless Philly eats all contracts involved or the prospect is someone like Singleton, whom hopefully Rube is loath to give up.

  • Posts: 0 The Second John

    Dipsy, they would never go for that trade. That’s a terrible trade for them.
    They would probably go for a package like this:



    Brody Colvin
    Harlod Garcia
    Jay Happ

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Kendrick and Happ can’t get you ANYTHING … let alone Lidge, who they already traded away .. and Galvis, when they have Manzella now, and their #2 prospects, is a SS

  • Posts: 95 Paul Boye

    Avatar of Paul Boye

    Oswalt and Lindstrom for Happ, Kendrick, Lidge and Freddy Galvis.

    Welp, I’ve seen it all, now.

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Well Publius, two things: Jaime Garcia is a great third starter. assuming that they would go with a four man rotation in the playoffs, the Cards would be the ones looking for the Guthries of the world. Roy Oswalt at 16m is a luxury for them. They have to resign Pujols. I don’t think they do that.

    I think Kendrick has value. You don’t obviously. He is still only twenty five years old. If you believe Happ will be a poor man’s Andy Pettite over the span of his career then all of a sudden you may be overpaying for Oswalt, considering how much he has to leave Houston. He is not staying. Wade wants him out and he wants out.

    Now, we’ll take the 30 year old Lindstrom, who is having a good year, and you take Lidge to offset salaries a bit. And you can have Galvis, Mayberry, Savery, Carpenter, blah blah.

    Under normal circumstances, I say that the Astros would not make this deal, but given the need to dump Oswalt, they don’t have a lot of choices nor many teams to deal with. I think they’re mind set is that they make the best deal they can.

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 0 Ted Bell

    St. Louis has already Carpenter, Wainwright and Garcia – which is a formidable post-season rotation. They may like to have Oswalt, but they’re also well aware that they’ll be paying Pujols $30 million a year in 2012 (I don’t see any scenario where they’d let him walk…it would be a PR nightmare). I don’t see them making a move for Oswalt.

    Houston would never take Lidge back…that’s just wishful thinking.

    I don’t want Oswalt here if it means picking up the 2012 option. It’s really time for RAJ to start making this team younger.

    Domonic Brown has played his last couple of games in LF. Change is coming…

    I’m Ted Bell.

  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Second John – THAT’S too much to give up.

    The Dipsy

  • Posts: 95 Paul Boye

    Avatar of Paul Boye

    If giving up Colvin, Garcia and Happ is too much, you’re not getting a deal done.

  • Posts: 0 Philly Texan

    I don’t know why St. Louis would trade for Oswalt. They have three terrific starters already.

    They need offense and bullpen help. Their lineup is worse than ours. They’re scoring runs right now, so they’re winning. But that won’t last. That patchwork lineup they’ve built around Pujols won’t get it done in the playoffs and they’ll lose games 3-2, just like last season to the Dodgers.

    I’d love to get Ellsbury.

    Can he stay healthy?

  • Posts: 0 beanzalo

    You know, other than giving up Cliff Lee, on paper, Rubin did everything right. They went into this season with their best lineup of the past 5 years, they bolstered the bench. The starting lineup looked good, not great but very good. Relievers were in question much as they have been. Who knew there would be so many injuries? Who knew the team would forget how to hit?

    In the first month of the season, they looked unstopable, then they lost their minds! I really don’t blame Amaro (‘cept for letting Lee go). Now it’s time to rise to the occasion and see what he can do to make this all work. Things don’t look very good for getting Oswalt or Haren. I don’t think we’ll see a new starter.

    We will see Werth go however. Probably not a bad idea overall, but you give up the right handed bat. We need to see the kid up here NOW. No waiting it out like they did with Howard.

  • Posts: 0 Chris.I

    Oswalt is good, but in all honesty…I wouldn’t want him here if he doesn’t want to pitch here. I hope St.Louis signs Oswalt, gets knocked out the 1st round in the playoffs by the Braves. Besides I don’t understand how the Cards plan on getting Oswalt AND signing Pujols? I just don’t understand the logic

  • Posts: 0 Publius

    Why do people think that 3 excellent starting pitchers is “enough” when you can have 4?

    Also, re: Pujols, if the Cards are continually competitive, and with Oswalt they definitely will be, they can probably afford to open up their pursestrings a bit more and expand their payroll, especially when it’s the face of the franchise.

  • Posts: 0 The Second John

    If that’s too much, then what would you give up? The deal that you proposed earlier isn’t going to get anything done.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Jaime Garcia has been great … he’s also unproven … and is already way over his previous high in innings pitched

    he’s at 110 right now.. LaRussa said in May “We haven’t said right now that he’s not throwing more than 175 innings or something”

    weird that he mentioned ANYTHING at all about 175 innings, so you would have to think that’s on the minds of the Cardinals already..

    Combined with the fact that Carpenter and Wainwright didn’t get it done in the playoffs last year, and I think you can definitely see why they’d want to add Oswalt to the staff

    Can we trade the Astros Raul Ibanez for Carlos Lee?

    Lee makes $18.5 M per season the next 3 years, which sucks .. but if they picked up $5 M of that each year, is that useful? Saves them for a crappy contract, gives us a legit power threat from LF .. instead of $55 M for Lee, they would only pay Ibanez $12 M + $15 M for Lee = $27 M

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