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Lidge balked at save, Phillies win in extras 3-2

Posted by Kieran Carobine, Sat, August 28, 2010 08:06 AM | Comments: 58
2010 Game Recaps, Posts

During the 2008 season it seemed Brad Lidge was unstoppable. And he pretty much was. He converted all 41 save opportunities during the regular season as well as seven more in the postseason. Lidge always found ways to get the job done. Now a days he is content on finding ways to blow the save.

Lidge entered the game in the ninth after Roy Oswalt (9-13, 3.12) pitched an incredible game going eight innings and only allowing one run. Oswalt was in line for the win and having only thrown 101 pitches many thought he could have finished off the game. Instead Charlie Manuel brought in his closer. Lidge allowed a lead off single to former Phillie Matt Stairs. He then intentionally walked Adrian Gonzalez before hitting Ryan Ludwick with an 0-2 pitch to load the bases. A balk would allow the runner to score from third and send the game into extras. It was Lidge’s fifth blown save in 22 chances.

The way the Phillies have been hitting lately, they were even lucky to have Lidge in a save situation. Coming into last night’s game the Phils had only scored seven runs in their last four games getting swept by the Astros at home. San Diego’s Mat Latos (13-5. 2.29) did a great job keeping the cold streak alive. Latos went seven innings allowing only one run on five hits.

The Phillies eventually would pick up their closer in the 12th inning when Jimmy Rollins scored the winning run on a Placido Polanco single. The box score will say Rollins scored on Polly’s single. What it won’t say is that Padres centerfielder Luis Durango made a perfect throw and Rollins had to adjust his slide going wide to avoid the tag. It was a slide that provoked adjectives like ‘fantastic’ and ‘unbelievable’.

Well whatever you thought it was, it was the game winner for a team that desperately needed a win. This win puts the Phillies only two games back in the NL East and tops in the Wild Card a half game ahead of the Giants.

Worth noting: Rollins was one of the few bright spots with three hits at the top of the lineup. Ryan Howard continues to struggle going 1 for 5 with four strikeouts.

Avatar of Kieran Carobine

About Kieran Carobine

Kieran Carobine has written 180 articles on Phillies Nation.

Kieran has been writing since 2010 and is based in Virginia Beach.

 
 
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Thanks for setting me straight on the Fuentes thing. I thought that since the Phils had the worse record that we had priority. This not being the case, I feel stupid and retract what I said about Phils management. Would have been nice to have him.

    The Dipsy

     
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  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Where’s Scott Eyre??

     
  • Posts: 0 Me

    ahh!! i feel ridiculous… i watched the bottom of the 11th & said 2 myself… okay rollins is leading off… i have a good feeling & fell asleep during his at bat i think (mayb commercials)… wow… just wow

     
  • Posts: 0 Lefty

    Well, this old man just couldn’t stay awake, I fell asleep right after the top of the 11th around 1:15. But, What a great way to wake up! Seems like it took weeks to move up a little on Atlanta. Good job Phitins.

    Lidge was just awful last night. He had horrible command, plunking a guy on a pitch that was supposed to be high cheese, he couldn’t even control his intentional walk pitches!! Then he balks because he thought he was going to drop the ball?

    From MLB Rules-
    “If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when –
    (I skipped a-j to get to the point)
    (k) The pitcher, while touching his plate, accidentally or intentionally drops the ball;”

    I couldn’t find a rule for what would happen if he’d just “fell on his face”, but maybe that would have been better??? I don’t know but did anyone stay up for potgame live? Did Botallico talk about it?

     
  • Posts: 0 Lefty

    Excuse me- “postgame live” -Although potgame live might have been fun to watch too.

     
  • Posts: 0 Bob

    As bad as things have been the last week remember that the Phils are have the best win percentage in 1 run games in MLB.

    Lidge has been outstanding for the last 3-4 weeks, I can excuse that blown save and will say that he showed some heart to get out of that inning. Would of been easy to fold the tent and go home with a numbing 3-2 loss.

    The hitting is not there at the moment but the Padres are no joke of a pitching staff. Phils did an amazing job of grinding that out after getting OUTSTANDING pitching all around last night. Remember a guy named Chad Durbin? This bullpen has come around and it starting to resemble 2008.

    For all the flak this team has taken the last 4 days and rightfully so, give credit where it is due.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    AGAIN a PhilliesNation writer doesn’t get his facts straight.

    Yesterday, Michael Baumann incorrectly said that Ryan Howard “continued his run at remarkable incompetence” in another thread when it’s very clear that he was hitting well (close to .300 avg), leading the league in RBI and starting to hit more home runs before he got hurt on Aug 1. Not sure how that’s “remarkably incompetent”.

    Now, Kieran Carobine states about Brad Lidge, “Now a days he is content on finding ways to blow the save.”

    Keiran….before last night Lidge had been perfect in August. In 10 games prior to last night dating back to Aug 1, Lidge had given up ZERO runs, walked ZERO and only allowed 4 hits in 9.1 innings. And he converted 7 out of 7 saves.

    And, if you take out the meltdown on July 31 in Washington when he served up the 3-run walk-off to Zimmerman, he was perfect in save opps (5 for 5) dating back to July 8th when he blew a save against the Reds.

    So my question is….just how is he finding ways to blow the save??

    Granted, the outing was frustrating to watch. Hitting someone on 0-2 and then balking in a run had me ready to pull my hair out. But, seriously, how often does he balk anyway?

    And, give the guy credit. He buckled down….UNDER PRESSURE (The Pads could have won on any kind of hit)…and got the 3rd out.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    The gameday was littered with mike bull schmidt… no need to feel stupid, Dip. I mean, it’s not like they make the waiver crap easy to understand.

    Think it’s funny that everyone complains about Jimmy (always complaining about him hitting leadoff) but no one says a damn thing when he does something like he did last night. There is NO ONE else on the team that scores in that situation… 3-5 with 2 runs a game where runs were not coming easy.

    It’s also interesting to reflect on how important Durbin is/was to this team… at one time, he was an afterthought but the guy has really been the one consistent cog in that pen.

     
  • Posts: 0 George

    “Now a days he is content on finding ways to blow the save.”

    What kind of asinine and off-base comment is that? Do you honestly think Lidge is content with his performance? He’s been working hard to right himself from last season and was doing a darned good job lately. There are other “elite” closers who’ve blown four and five saves this year. Get off Lidge’s back. Maybe he isn’t the 2008 Lidge, but to trash his attitude with your unfunny analysis is unacceptable.

    It’s time someone said something positive. The Phils’ pitching was very good, and the offense did just enough against the toughest staff in the league. The Phils won this game on a very aggressive “small ball” type of play. To expect an offensive outburst against the Padres is expecting too much.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Wheeler and TMac were mentioning about how engaged Jimmy was last night. Like maybe he’s coming to life. The team NEEDS that spark, that energy from him.

    ——-

    Durbin is really the rock of that pen right now. Need to find a way to keep him.

    ——-

    Gameday thread: 600 or so entries. Maybe 50 of them were worth something. Honestly, some of you people need help.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    George, did you read my post a few minutes ago at 9:50?? I said basically the same thing. And I’m really getting tired of some of innacurate statements by these writers. Michael Baumann STILL hasn’t defended his dumb statement from yesterday abut Ryan Howard.

    Pat, Brian…seriously…you guys can do better than this!!

     
  • Posts: 0 George

    I can’t fault the Dipsy for being confused about the waiver rules. One professional piece I read didn’t really have a clue, either, stating only that Fuentes had been traded-as though he didn’t even have to go through waivers!

    I’ll also give Baumann a pass for his Ryan Howard “incompetence” remark. I’m pretty positive he was talking only about Howard’s streak since he came off the DL. Maybe he should have worded his piece better to reflect that, but it’s not the cardinal sin that everyone made it out to be. (Let’s face it; Ryan has looked incredibly incompetent LATELY!)

    The Lidge comment today, however, was and always will be out of line.

     
  • Posts: 0 Bob

    Dont worry, the next loss some will be ready to fire and trade everyone.

    Some were foaming at the mouth to rip Charlie for pulling Oswalt and waiting for Lidge to fold.

    I didnt agree with pulling Oswalt 1 bit however the job eventually got done and ground was gained on Atlanta and the wild card lead is back.

    Championship caliber teams find a way to win games like last night.

    Side note: If that was “playoff atmosphere” from San Diego, that is sad. Those fans need to have another gear. Great representation from the Phils fans last night, dont expect any different today and Sunday

     
  • Posts: 0 Kate

    Lidge was not going to be perfect the rest of the season. Get over it. He’s been pitching a lot better in tough spots than he did last year.

    Yes, he was pretty painful to watch last night. So was most of the offense.

    We’re still catching Atlanta.

     
  • Posts: 0 Lefty

    Really glad to see JRoll engaged and taking a leadership roll last night, don’t know if it was normal and maybe the cameras just caught it last night, but hope it was the unusual and will now become the norm.

    I get the feeling Cholly may have asked for a leader to step up in one of his many meetings lately. Glad to see our former MVP take the job.

    @Chuck, we agree most of the time- you are absolutely right to take on the editors when they write inacurrate opinions, but IMO you shouldn’t bash other posters-they’re not professionals, and in an open forum are entitled to their opinions too. (Well except maybe Bravo Man) I’m glad the site is so popular.

     
  • Posts: 0 George

    Chuck, your post came up while I was composing mine. So no, I hadn’t read it.

    I’m not so sure these statements are inaccurate factually, because no facts have been cited in either case. That’s what’s truly troubling to me. This blog is basically opinion, but opinions need some basis in fact to be more than just incendiary bull crap. If Carobine could quote a psychological report or two to back up his Lidge statement it would be a different story. But without that it’s just a load of manure, and not worthy of being posted on PhilliesNation.

    I agree; these guys can and SHOULD do better.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Maybe Baumann WAS referring to Howard’s RECENT activity since coming off the DL. I’ll give him that. However, my argument is that Ryan is essentially still rehabbing (that excuse will be over soon though) and that if anyone expected him to be on fire after the DL stint then they had false expectations.

    It’s funny how another fellow blogger on this site has to come to Baumann’s defense, though. Michael, I’m still waiting for you to back up your argument.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Lefty, I am assuming that you are referring to my comments about the Gameday threads??

    Some of those (most of them) are ridiculous and laughable. Read some of jeff’s comments.

     
  • Posts: 0 Lefty

    I don’t expect perfection from Lidge, I just want to know if he’d have been better off falling as he said “on his face” rather than dropping the ball. (please refer to post at 9:22) I wasn’t trying to be a smart—, I looked up the dropped ball rule because I really want to know. Does anyone have any idea? I looked on CSNPHilly .com, and just about every source I can find.

    Had he fallen instead of stepping off, would it have been a balk? Anyone?

     
  • Posts: 0 George

    I may have disagreed somewhat with pulling Oswalt, but I could easily see Manuel’s point. Oswalt swinging away, and perhaps even having to run to first could have proven just enough to tire him the rest of the way. He could have returned in the ninth and easily given up a one-run lead. I can see the point of trying to get the leadoff hitter on base to try for some insurance.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Well, Oswalt was dominating in the 8th and seemed like he still had a lot in the tank. He was at 102 pitches. While reasonable minds can differ, I’m leaving him in.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 George

    Lefty: If the pitcher is in the act of throwing and he falls, it’s still a balk because he didn’t complete the pitch. The most famous “falling off the mound” was the first Allstar game played at Candlestick Park in SF. I’ve forgotten the pitcher’s name, but he was making his pitch when a wind gust actually blew him off the mound. It was called a balk, even though it certainly wasn’t a matter of the guy trying to deceive the runner.

    I suppose that if Lidge had rolled the ball forward as he fell, it could technically be called a pitch. But that would be an umpire’s judgment call. Also, in that case he may not have been able to retrieve it in time to get the runner at home.

     
  • Posts: 0 bacardipr05

    I will say this Oswalt looked pretty good. I was worried a little about him at first. No moving on to my point and im sure some know this if Oswalt where kept in the game and blew the headlines here and other places would of been different. Everybody would of have been saving why did Cholly keep Oswalt in. This is the way it has gone for the Phils this year. On a side note i think it was RAJ intention to have Baez be plan B for Lidge. As well all know that isnt working out. Chuck i gave on the Eyre thing 2 weeks ago. Although it would have been great to have him. Next year and I dont know RAJ is going to have to rebuild the bullpen basically. It would be nice if he could start now by signing someone but i dont see that happening the Phils dont have many trade offerings.

     
  • Posts: 0 Lefty

    @Chuck – I was hoping you weren’t talking about me!

    No seriously, I think the more the merrier (as long as it doesn’t shut the site down) , and everyone’s opinions are fair game. I like the poster you mentioned a lot, we seldom agree, and he’s a glass half empty type, but he’s a true Phils fan!

    I find it similar to what people say about our stadium attendance, at CBP and on the road. You can say what you want about Phillies fans,
    “they booed Hall of Famer Mike Schmidt” etc. etc., but they’re ALWAYS there. Petco Park can’t get people to come see the best team in the NL right now, Atlanta can’t fill their place either. We may say what we want when we want, right or not- but we’re there.

    IMO -It’s the same in here, there a only a very few real trolls. Mostly it’s a pretty good group, and they speak their minds, and I’m just saying it’s okay.

     
  • Posts: 0 Bob

    The day Philly fans stop booing something is the day all sports will cease all together

     
  • Posts: 0 Lefty

    George-Thanks
    I couldn’t find that anywhere in MLB rules but I do vaguely remember the All Star thing. So basically once his mitt hit the ball there was nothing else he could do, but step off and make sure the ball didn’t drop because that’s a balk, and falling wouldn’t have helped.

     
  • Posts: 0 Manny

    Just a minor detail that everyone seems to be forgetting about:

    Oswalt was due up in the top of the 9th… you want to start the last inning with an out in a one-run game? Charlie’s move was the right one. Lidge came really close to the save (2 outs, 0-2 count on Ludwick to end up hitting him… and then the balk). It’s unfortunate, but it happens.

     
  • Posts: 0 Bob

    @Manny

    The way Oswalt breezed through that 8th and the way the bats are (hopefully were) stuggling it’s an easy call for me. Oswalt at 101 pitches, let him start the 9th. You’d still have the top of the order to get a run with 2 outs to play with.

    If he were around 115 pitches then I could understand. And if Oswalt got into serious trouble, I would go to Lidge.

    But it all worked out and that’s the important thing

     
  • Posts: 0 Lefty

    On the Cholly pulling Oswalt subject, don’t forget that in the 7th Roy2 gave up two well hit balls that Werth and Ibanez made good plays on. It’s true that he pitched better in the 8th, but Lidge had been going pretty good lately. I’m okay with the decision. Just doesn’t work out sometimes.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Lefty, no, I wasn’t referring to you. You make sense and seem to have a level head. No worries.

    ——

    While I could have argued for Oswalt to stay in, I also agree that Charlie made the right move. With the way Lidge had been over the last month (really since July 8th if you forget the Zimmerman walk-off), you have to make that move.

    And, like Manny said, he almost got it done.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Seriously, though, guys….Blanton vs. Garland today. Is anyone else a little worried about that matchup?

     
  • Posts: 0 Bob

    If that is Roy Halladay in the same scenario last night, is anyone saying that going to Lidge is the right move?

    Not being nasty about it, just curious?

    But that was a great show of faith by Charlie to put the 9th in Lidge’s hands and I move that can pay off greatly down the line

     
  • Posts: 0 Bob

    @Chuck

    Not too worried as Blanton has been better lately. Not sure that 3 runs can get it done today but know this offense can hit Garland.

     
  • Posts: 0 JAY-AKA-PHILLYBOY

    GREAT WIN LAST NIGHT,JIMMY CAME THREW BIG TIME!I THINK ROY2 SHOULD HAVE FINISIHED THE GAME,IF YOU WERE WATCHING LIKE WE WERE,HE WAS ABSOULTY DEALING!!HE HAD JUST PUT 13 OR SO IN A ROW DOWN AND WAS LOOKING REALLY GOOD!GLAD IT ALL WORKED OUT………GO PHILLIES!!!!!

     
  • Posts: 0 Adam

    Amazing state posted last night during the post-game interview with Rollins: The Phils are 24-6 this year when he wins and something like 550-227 all-time when he scores. There is no doubt that when he gets on base and has a big game, the Phillies win. It is that simple.

    Unreal job by Oswalt last night. The Lidge balk was just so typical Lidge BS as he walks a tight rope all the time but hey you gotta dance with the girl you brought.

    Padres bullpen is all kinds of nasty. Not one pitcher in that pen who appeared in the game last night had an ERA above 2.65. Gregerson, Adams, Hatcher, Bell all have ERA’s under 1.80. While there pitching is flat out outstanding their offense is so meager. It is amazing that that team scores enough runs to win games.

    Now onto the real issue(s). How awful are Utley and Howard right now? They clearly were not ready to come back and I would not mind if we saw the following lineup for a week so the two of them could get their timing back: Rollins, Polanco, Ibanez, Werth, Sweeney, Victorino, Ruiz, Pitcher. The fact is those two guys are just killing rallies all over the place. Howard looks befuddled at the plate (he takes a remarkable amount of fastballs and swings are a ton of breaking pitches) and Utley’s bat just looks slow (he quite literally cannot hit a fastball as he simply rolls over on it and taps it to second base.

     
  • Posts: 0 bacardipr05

    Adam you make some good points however Utley and Howard will not get their timing back sitting on the bench. However maybe instead of starting both they should start one an sit the other. Or some sort of thing like that.

     
  • Posts: 0 Bob

    @Adam

    As you said with Lidge “you gotta dance with the girl you brought” apply the same to Utley and Howard.

    A week off will do them no good unless they are actually hurt. They will get their timing back and in the mean time we just need some more soild pitching. Steal a page from SD’s playbook.

     
  • Posts: 0 JAY-AKA-PHILLYBOY

    VERY INTERESTING FACT-THIS PHILLIES TEAM IS THE OLDEST IN BASEBALL AT 31.9 YEARS…………….MAYBE THEY COULD BE WEARING DOWN!….. .. BUT JAMIE MOYER ADDS 5 YEARS EASY…………

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Bob….

    Yes. With the pitcher due up in the top of the 9th in a one-run game you have to go to your closer…who has been really good lately. I don’t care if it’s Oswalt, Halladay or Cy Young. (Well, maybe Cy goes back out there)

     
  • Posts: 0 Lefty

    Chuck- Garland being a sinkerballer is actually to our advantage. It stops us from trying to hit home runs that end up as pop-ups. We’ve hit him pretty well, but his record at home is way better than on the road. My guess is that Joe B will also benefit from pitching at Petco. (Just get through the 1st flippin inning Joe) By the way for those that did not see it, I posted an interseting article last night that showed Petco ranked 30th (last) in every hitter friendly stat. Obviously a big reason why their pitching is so good this year. The article gives a lot of good info about CBP too, and ranks all stadiums from hitter friendly to pitcher friendly. If you’d like to read it, it’s in last nights game thread at 9:39pm.

     
  • Posts: 0 Bruce

    Manuel applied the unwritten rule of baseball for the 9th inning of a one run game. An insurance run is the goal and you don’t want an automatic out with the pitcher leading off. If you don’t have confidence in your closer, then chances are the team won’t get to the playoffs. Also keep in mind that Manuel may have concerns of keeping Oswalt fresh for his next start and later for the remainder of the season. After all, Oswalt finished with a 102 pitch count after 8 innings.

     
  • Posts: 0 sportsphan

    Saw that Strasburg will have surgery that will require 12-18 months of recovery time. No one has to be afraid of him for the rest of this season and next. Since the Phillies were “responsible”, do you think they could award us the NL Championship simply out of gratitude? Thank God for the win last night, but we’re still not hitting.

     
  • Posts: 0 Bruce

    Someone here was critical of “Gameday” threads. It’s really more of chat filled with rants as a release valve for frustrations. Of course, the rants are not to be taken seriously. And one should not expect analysis or revelation about the game itself. That’s why I don’t bother going there. I prefer to be analytical rather than spontaneous and take the time for researching stats to support my arguments. :-)

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    That was me that mentioned the Gameday threads. I rarely participate. Occasionally, it’s fun to check it out and the come-from-behind win against the Dodgers a few weeks when we got to Broxton again was one of those games.

    But, I guess you’re right…it’s just a place to rant and there really isn’t much value to most of the comments.

     
  • Posts: 0 Shazbot

    It’s about run expectancy. 1 inning of RO over Lidge is not going to be more than the about .13 runs leading off with a PH over the P is worth. Always the decision to make, regardless of the score. It’s just sentiment that would make you do otherwise.

    I like sentiment, though, but certainly not with a 1 run lead in a tight playoff race.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Actually, I don’t mind the matchup today. When Blanton gets hurt, its very often from the long ball and, Petco being a place where you have to hit the ball 500 feet to get it out…well. Garland doesn’t impress me much. Go Phils.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 jonnyboy

    lets go phillies!

     
  • Posts: 0 Brooks

    Frankly, I am stunned as well about the comments made regarding Lidge’s performance. He has been as good as we’ve seen him in a long, long time. Perfect in August until last night and yet NO meltdown as we have seen in the past.

    Kieran, lighten up.

    Regarding the performances by both Utley and Howard. Ryan had been on the wane since at least 6 games before his stint on the DL. He was 2 for 20 with 2 runs scored and 3 rbi (all in 1 game). And, if you think he is striking out more now – he had 12 strike outs in those 20 atbats – that is an astounding 60% of the atbats where he struck out. Since coming off the DL, he is 4 for 29, no extra base hits, 1 rbi in 7 games, no runs scored and 16 strike outs (which is a better percentage than prior to the DL).

    Please, you can stop using the fact that he needs to get back in sync after his off time – that is not the case. I don’t recommend sitting Howard or not for any period of time anyway but, the man needs something. Perhaps to relax?

    Chase is another story. No problems with striking out, at least not anywhere near the size of Howard’s but he is not the hitter we fell in love with for sure. Chase hit 1 hr in the month of June. 87 atbats, 1 hr for the entire month. He had 5 extra bases in that month a .368 slugging percentage. Since Chase came off the DL, not too much difference. No hrs since, hitting .237 in August with 2 doubles – the only extra base hits he’s had. He has 4 rbi compared to Ryan’s 1 in August. Wow.

    Please, talk help me to understand extended slumps again? This is the heart, the big $$ of our lineup and they are in complete fail mode now.

    The O needs some help – who do they fire next?

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Here’s my issue with Howard. I have no problem with the timing argument. All players go through slumps of various lengths from time to time. A lot of that has to do with timing, stance, whatever.

    But it just doesn’t seem like Ryan is even seeing the ball. Last night…… I think it was the last at-bat when he struck out looking……..he just shook his head. It wasn’t even close. It was a strike and with two strikes, Ryan needs to be in a protect mode right there.

     
 
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