Bullpen Trade Targets: The Hidden Solution
Posted by Corey Seidman, Thu, July 07, 2011 12:10 PM | Comments: 25
Posts, Trades
The Phillies’ top priority seems to shift weekly from outfield bat to bullpen arm. Charlie wants a bat, Ruben wants an arm.
Fueling the idea to seek out an external bullpen piece is the shaky health situation of the back-end. Ryan Madson, Jose Contreras and Brad Lidge have all spent time on the DL, eventually leaving closer duty to an electric but inexperienced lefty with only 41 innings under his belt prior to 2011.
Some have argued that adding a reliever is unnecessary … that soon the Phillies will have Madson, Lidge, Contreras and Antonio Bastardo to choose from late in the game. But what has gone largely ignored is the chance that Lidge and Contreras will offer very little upon their returns.
Lidge has been up-and-down with his fastball velocity (up now, it seems) and did not make it back at the original timetable. He has never missed this much time in a season, nor has he pitched in the middle innings. Why are so many acting as if it’s a guarantee that 2011 Lidge will be 2008 Lidge, or even 2010 Lidge?
As for Contreras, he was great last year, posting a 9.1 K/9 and 2.5 BB/9. He held the opposition scoreless in his first 12 games this year, but then came the arm troubles. Over his next five outings, Contreras would allow six runs on nine hits in 2.2 innings. His velocity was down, his swinging strike rate was down, and eventually he went down for a second DL stint. Contreras has pitched six innings in the last 70 games.
With the lack of assurance surrounding Lidge and Contreras, the Phillies back-end ultimately becomes Madson, Bastardo, Stutes. The two youngsters have been phenomenal and look to be key cogs for years to come. But Bastardo won’t go the rest of his career without allowing a run, and Stutes will at some point tire. He has had several outings where he had absolutely nothing in the tank, where his fastballs stayed up and his batted balls were pounded. A recent game against St. Louis sticks out.
This is why an external option may be necessary. If Lidge and Contreras sputter when they return, another quality reliever would give the Phillies true back-end depth. If Lidge and Contreras pitch well, another arm would at least push Contreras a step back into Herndon territory, ensuring that debacles like last night don’t take place again.
So, who are some available, realistic names?
We’ve all heard his name, we all know his exploits. Over the last five years, Bell has pitched to a 2.53 ERA and 1.12 WHIP in nearly 350 innings. He racks up the saves, minimizes the blown saves, strikes guys out, limits the free passes, and has a devastating fastball-curveball combination.
Bell is an impending free agent and the Padres have struggled, making him a ripe trade target. But one wonders if it would be right to go after Bell.
What are the pros and cons?
Pro: He’d instantly stand alongside Ryan Madson as the Phillies’ best reliever.
Con: It would cost a significant prospect to obtain him.
Pro: A combo of Madson-Bell-Bastardo would be lethal and unmatched in the game. Not even the Braves have three unhittable late-inning options.
Con: Bell is a free agent after the season and will be courted by many teams, meaning a trade may end up being a half-season rental.
Pro: Acquiring Bell in-season would give the Phillies time to negotiate and get comfortable with Bell in case Madson leaves in free agency.
What do you think, would you give up a pitching prospect like Trevor May or Jarred Cosart to land Bell? Padres GM Jed Hoyer is a shrewd negotiator who will not be fleeced for his top commodity.
If you wouldn’t part with one of those pitchers, here is Option 2:
Uehara, you may be unfamiliar with. His name and repertoire have been hidden by the Orioles’ constant futility, but this righthander has been awesome for three consecutive years. Would you believe that, despite Bell’s mighty impressive K/BB numbers, Uehara has a strikeout-to-walk ratio almost twice as good since 2009? Or that his WHIP has been .08 lower than Bell’s? In Uehara’s last 82 innings, he has walked 13 and struck out 105. Those are Halladay-Hamels-Lee numbers.
Since 2009, Uehara leads all major league relievers in K/BB ratio, at 8.08. The next pitcher is at 5.93. And all this in the AL East!
The fact that only 3% of the population knows Uehara makes him a less compelling solution than Bell. But Uehara may be better, and he’ll assuredly be cheaper. At age 36, it is not as if Uehara is a young, team-controlled player. He came over from Japan in 2009, signing a two-year, $10MM contract. Prior to 2011, he re-upped for one-year/$3MM with a vesting option for a second year.
The Phillies would not land Uehara for a nothing player, but they wouldn’t have to part with top-tier talent, either. For the future, Uehara is vastly more signable than Bell. The latter will get a three-year, $30+ million contract this offseason. Uehara might stick around for two years, $9MM.
Perhaps we’ve been looking at the wrong name all along…

















Posts: 0 Don M
I love it . . . but Who does it cost to get him? Worley? I think they have enough young pitching… I don’t think Rizzotti is enough . . . I’m guessing they’d ask for Singleton?
Is it worth giving up a player that MIGHT be good 3-5 years from now, for a reliever that has a chance to impact a World Series run right now . . . Yep … though hopefully im being crazy, and overvaluing Koji by a lot.. I just see the O’s interested in offense more than extra young pitching, as they hope that Britton, Matusz, etc can be their guys . . .
Posted: 02:52 PM on July 7, 2011
Posts: 1050 Manny
I had no idea Uehara was THIS good.. look at that WHIP! He’s 36 so I really doubt that we’d need to depart with premier talent like Singleton to get him…
Posted: 02:57 PM on July 7, 2011
Posts: 3 cjsjags
I would like to see Amaro put together a package deal for Uehara and Markakis since he is back to his old self
Posted: 04:46 PM on July 7, 2011
Posts: 0 Don M
Rizzotti is actually hitting better than I thought this year, and he’s got nowhere to go with the Phillies . . . but I think he’s not seen as some great prospect ..but a 1b option for them with Lee done soon might be worth it
Posted: 03:13 PM on July 7, 2011
Posts: 311 Corey Seidman
No…they wouldn’t ask for Singleton. If they did they’d be laughed off the phone. Uehara might cost something like J.C. Ramirez – a middle-tier Phillies prospect.
Posted: 03:13 PM on July 7, 2011
Posts: 220 The Dipsy
Corey – you guys are dead wrong. While it is true San Diego and the O’s stink, they’re not stupid. There will be teams that need closers at the deadline and J.C. Ramirez ain’t gettin it done. For either one. The Phils will have to bid. I like Bell and and a deal for Bell has two additional components: A) He could close next year because Madson is NOT coming back, and B) Ryan Ludwick could come over in the same deal. And then the Phils get well. The Phillies will have to make the money work but they always do. And if the Pads ask for Singleton for Bell…I go pick up Singleton and drive him to the airport.
The Dipsy
Posted: 03:20 PM on July 7, 2011
Posts: 311 Corey Seidman
We weren’t talking about Singleton for Bell, we were talking about Singleton for Uehara, a 36-year-old on a team going nowhere.
Singleton for Uehara is laughable. Singleton for Bell is exactly the reason the Phillies don’t need to be pursuing Bell.
Posted: 03:24 PM on July 7, 2011
Posts: 0 Don M
Why isn’t Madson coming back?
I would think with multiple bidders, the O’s would at least be able to get ONE of our “top” prospects . . . and I doubt the Phillies want to breakup their Clearwater crew in a trade for bullpen help … I thought Singleton was both Struggling, and moved back to 1b ?
Again, after looking at it.. Rizzotti is blocked here, and hitting pretty well again in AA.. maybe Rizzotti/ Ramirez is that too much to give up
Posted: 03:27 PM on July 7, 2011
Posts: 0 Don M
Aren’t other teams going to see the view that you have though Corey . . . that Koji is “just as good as Bell” . . . and with that, his value goes up. Its not like the Phillies are going to steal this guy for nothing, right?
Posted: 03:30 PM on July 7, 2011
Posts: 311 Corey Seidman
Nobody said Madson wasn’t coming back. But Madson is represented by Scott Boras and will get at least 3 yrs/$36MM after the season. At least. And I’m not sure the Phillies will be willing to do that with a hole in left field and the necessity of a Cole Hamels extension. People like to think that every single Phillie will give a hometown discount but this isn’t la-la land. It’s Madson’s one chance to make a ton of money and he *should* go for every single dollar.
Posted: 03:30 PM on July 7, 2011
Posts: 220 The Dipsy
Why shouldn’t the Phils be trading for Bell? Corey…what do you think Madson is gonna ask for next year? Its gonna be mad money. If we trade for Bell we have a stud closer for the stretch run. Then it goes Bastardo, Stutes, Madson, Bell at the end of the pen. Not bad. Then if Madson gets frisky with his contract demands we can tell him to go fly a kite. Singleton, while a nice prospect, can’t field. He’s blocked at first. He’s probably gonna get traded somewhere down the line as it is. I’ll take Bell and a loogy from somewhere and then I think we’re good.
The Dipsy
Posted: 03:30 PM on July 7, 2011
Posts: 311 Corey Seidman
Because Singleton is still incredibly young and trading him would be a knee-jerk reaction to one half of performance in 2011. Heath Bell will require as much money, if not more, than Madson. You don’t trade a potential blue-chipper like Singleton for a half-year rental. And it makes no sense to trade him for a guy you would sign to the same contract Madson will command.
Posted: 03:34 PM on July 7, 2011
Posts: 311 Corey Seidman
There are very few teams that need a 36-year old reliever. The Braves don’t. The Giants don’t. The Reds have more pressing needs. The Red Sox have more pressing needs. The Yankees have more pressing needs.
It comes down to the Phillies and Cardinals, really.
Posted: 03:32 PM on July 7, 2011
Posts: 0 Dave Evans
Make a trade with the Mets and bring in Carlos Beltran. He would give you a right hand power hitter and someone to play rightfield.
Posted: 03:40 PM on July 7, 2011
Posts: 0 bacardipr05
If they can some how get Ludwick in the deal then by all means they should try. Its just worry me with an older team very soon they will have to start to turn this team over. What made the Phils great is some of players grew up in the Phils farm system. Rollins, Utley, Howard, Ruiz an Hamels. I wonder if RAJ knows something that he isnt saying know that he is shifting to a bullpen piece. Perhaps he doesnt think Lidge will return or maybe Contreras is hurt more than we know. I say sign Madson if the Phils want to be the Yanks of the NL they need to pony up an forget about the Luxury Tax for a year or two. The Braves which for a decade was considered the Yanks of the NL (in a way) want to reclaim their top spot. If Boras is on the Madson train this most likely mean he will command a Lidge type of contract. I say if he stays around 12 Mil a year an once he comes back from DL if he was as good as before then they should look to resign him.
Posted: 04:39 PM on July 7, 2011
Posts: 861 The Original Chuck P
I’m not a fan of overpaying for relievers (especially when you’ve got studs in your rotation that make 6th and 7th inning relievers unnecessary). Lidge doesn’t need to dominate when he comes back. Neither does Contreras… they just need to get us through an inning or a half inning. It’s a great situation to be in, really… let them work back to near full strength. As long as we’re playing well, there’s no rush. It’s all about October – get these guys ready for October. I hate seeing Carpenter and Baez but if they can get us through these next few months with only a small handful of blown saves, then I say keep the farm in tact and let’s see if our guys can rehab and get back to where we need them to be. If you can fit a Bell/Uehara into the mix without giving up too much, that’s fine but please never mention Singleton’s name again. For a half year relief rental… really
Posted: 04:45 PM on July 7, 2011
Posts: 0 Don M
After the great run of the late 90′s with WS wins in 96, 98, 99, 2000 . . . . the Yankees didn’t win until 2009 …but Im pretty sure they had the highest payroll BY A LOT in all of those seasons. … with their new stadium they’ve priced-out many of their most loyal fans, etc . . I dont want to see us become the “Yankees of the NL” …in that sense
Posted: 04:46 PM on July 7, 2011
Posts: 0 bacardipr05
Assuming Madson comes back an Jose comes back i dont think the Phils need a top end reliever. Maybe a middle of the road guy that can come in the 7th with a respectable ERA that will pitch an inning or two an not get smacked around for the most part. By that i mean not one of those guys that suck an get cut an have a” potential upside” to them. Say games when Phils are say up by 2 runs or more.
Posted: 04:52 PM on July 7, 2011
Posts: 1050 Manny
Frankly, I rather wait and see how Contreras and Lidge respond after they recover from their injuries, which should be before the trade deadline expires. If Contreras and/or Lidge is able to rebound, then we really don’t need another reliever. Lidge pitched great late last year, but people tend to forget that. He was in top form during the playoffs, which is what we should be aiming for again this year. Contreras was nasty earlier this year as our closer.
One of Lidge/Contreras, Madson, Bastardo, and Stutes as late inning options is a very solid combo come playoff time. I’d be hesitant to keep sacrificing our top guys in the farm for another pen arm, unless it’s a middle-tier guy like Corey mentioned. I’d rather see Amaro extend Madson before he hits FA.
Posted: 05:50 PM on July 7, 2011
Posts: 0 Lefty
I couldn’t have said that better. That’s exactly the way I see it.
It’s a pretty good bullpen assuming health ( big assumption I know)-
Bastardo, Stutes, Contreras, Madson, Lidge, Kendrick and maybe call up Zagurski to be our Loogy.
Herndon and Baez – buh bye! Chuck, I’ll pay for the gas if you would take them both to the airport please.
Posted: 08:53 PM on July 7, 2011
Posts: 0 bacardipr05
I dont think theyll give up on Herndon yet. They seem to like him for now. Baez yea he needs to go. Let Mathieson an Zagurski get the loogy spot. Herndon needs more time at AAA.
Posted: 02:38 AM on July 8, 2011
Posts: 0 TheDipsy
Well Manny and Lefty, I would be e all for that approach also. Unfortunately, the trade deadline is July 31 so we will not have a full picture by then. I know deals can be made after the deadline but it gets harder because of waivers. That said, I the deadline comes around and things are cloudy, are you better safe than sorry and reach out for a deal? I think I do.
The Dipsy
Posted: 07:44 AM on July 8, 2011
Posts: 3464 Lefty
Fair point Dipsy. I guess you have to play it safe.
Posted: 12:57 PM on July 8, 2011
Posts: 46 RatBastardNJ
I might be in the minority, but I believe it is a starter that the Phillies might need most. I am unsure if Blanton or Oswalt are even returning this year. I very much believe that KK is more valuable as a middle inning reliever. KK, Lidge, Contreras, Madson all returning means sending down the minor leaguers who need more time down there. Gotta believe finding a cheap starter for a rental for the remainder of the year would be cheaper than the names above. I also vote on not trading Singleton…this guy might be a stud in a few years and to get a possible half year rental or a 36 yr. old reliever does not compute.
Posted: 09:37 AM on July 8, 2011
Posts: 0 Dave Snyder
Why not try to trade the dead wood on IR like Lidge and Contreras?
Zug would also be good to use for bait. Pay Madson and keep Stutes and Perez, and go get a RH bat!!
Posted: 10:05 AM on July 11, 2011