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Phillies Trade Rumors Friday: Hunter Pence Edition

Posted by Pat Gallen, Fri, July 29, 2011 01:43 PM | Comments: 113
Analysis, News, Opinion, Posts, Trades

Would the Phillies be giving up too much for Pence? (PHOTO: Yahoo)

UPDATE, 5:15 pm: ESPN.com’s Buster Olney just tweeted that a source tells him the Phillies have no intention of putting Domonic Brown up for sale.

The saga continues.

———————————

UPDATE, 4:30 pm: Michael Baumann did a little research today on how prospects pan out in the majors, here is a look:

Proof that the Baseball America people know what they’re talking about (Click on the year to see that seasons full list of top prospects):

2005:
Top 10 2005: 8 major league regulars (Mauer, Felix Hernandez, Delmon Young, Ian Stewart, Kotchman, Kazmir, Rickie Weeks, Hanley Ramirez), 1 MVP, 1 Cy Young, 4 batting titles.  Other notables: Matt Cain (13), Prince Fielder (15), Chad Billingsley (19), Jeff Niemann (20), Carlos Quentin (22), Nick Swisher (24)

2006:
Top 10 2006: 7 ML regulars (Young, Justin Upton, Stephen Drew, Liriano, Billingsley,Verlander, Matt Cain) Other notables: Fielder (11), Howie Kendrick (12), Alex Gordon (13), Ryan Zimmerman (15), Quentin (20), Markakis (21), Jon Lester (22), Chris Young the outfielder (23) and Tulo (25)

2007:

Top 10 2007: 7 regulars (Dice-K, Gordon, Young, Hughes, Cam Maybin, Longoria, Justin Upton). Lincecum at 11, Andrew McCutchen at 13, Bruce at 14, Tulo at 15, Gallardo 16, Carlos Gonzalez 18, Matt Garza 21, Clayton Kershaw 24, Billy Butler 25, Ryan Braun 26

2008:
Top 10 2008: 9 ML Regulars (Bruce, Longoria, Joba, Clay Buchholz, Rasmus, Maybin, Kershaw, Franklin Morales, David Price). Others: Wieters (12), Ellsbury (13), McCutchen (14), Wade Davis (17), Mike Moustakas (18), Elvis Andrus (19).

The point of this exercise is that the guys on these lists tend to turn into solid major leaugers, and the percentage of success rises the higher up you go. Some of the guys on these Top 25 lists don’t pan out. Andy Marte, Andy LaRoche, Fernando Martinez, Brandon Wood, and Homer Bailey all showed up more than once, it it’s not an exact science. Others, like Kazmir and Delmon Young, can flame out quickly. But if the experts say someone is a top-10 prospect, 4 out of 5 times, those prospects turn into good major leaguers (which is comforting, because they’re the goddamn experts), and more often than not, they grow into superstars.

—————————————-

1:43 pm, Friday: Wow. It looks like the Phillies are doing their best to trade Dom Brown. That’s what Jayson Stark of ESPN.com is saying.

From Stark:

…That leaves the Phillies, who have made Pence far and away their No. 1 target. But because the Phillies and Astros haven’t been able to agree on players beyond the Phillies’ initial offer, other clubs reported Friday they’re now exploring potential three-team deals to put the pieces together.

The reason for that is this: The Phillies initially offered their two best prospects, pitcher Jarred Cosart and first baseman Jonathan Singleton, and were told that wasn’t enough. The Phillies then offered to include their right fielder, Domonic Brown. But the Astros, according to one team that spoke with them, would prefer to spin Brown elsewhere for multiple prospects than take him themselves.

So the Astros don’t even like Brown and want to move him immediately for other prospects. That, plus the fact that the Phillies will also be giving up their two top organizational prospects for Pence.

My take: Hunter Pence assures you NOTHING. To pillage the farm system AND give up Domonic Brown for a good, but not great, player is mind-boggling to me. We’ve seen Domonic Brown for 88 games and 240 at-bats in his major league career. He was once named the top prospect in all of baseball. He’s showing great plate discipline. He’s also having a tough time in the field, which can change with seasoning.

And people want to send him out to pasture for a guy who has peaked at .280-ish, 25 homers, and 80 RBI. Hunter Pence is a good player – I’ll say it again – and I have nothing against the guy personally. He could be a great person, and he might be a joy to cover if he does come to Philly, but what we know is he isn’t a great ballplayer. That is WAY too much to offer for a guy who isn’t a great defender and doesn’t do any one thing great.

You cannot call Domonic Brown “untouchable” when it came to trading for Roy Halladay (Cy Young 2x), Cliff Lee (Cy Young 1x), and Roy Oswalt (NLCS MVP) and then deal him for a Top 15 outfielder in MLB. In my opinion, you can’t.

Avatar of Pat Gallen

About Pat Gallen

Pat Gallen has written 1600 articles on Phillies Nation.

Pat is Editor-in-Chief of Phillies Nation. He also covers the Phils for 97.5 FM in Philly.

 
 
  • Posts: 0 TheDipsy

    Cosart, Singleton, and Brown? Do we get a hand job with that?

    The Dipsy

     
    • Posts: 1435 Pat Gallen

      Avatar of Pat Gallen

      Better be the best hand job ever given.

       
    • Posts: 0 Matt M

      290 average, 25 hrs and 90 rbi’s per year for about 4 years or service. that’s better than average, sounds a lot like Werth only younger and cheaper. Would you rather see Brown dive for a ball or jump the wall for a ball he cant reach that might cost a playoff game. They shouldn’t have traded Michael Taylor, Klye Drybek, Andres Cardenes Lou Marson or Michael Bourne either. Prospects are potential a proven talent is usually the better choice.

       
      • Posts: 0 agam22

        The difference is they traded the prospects you named for Lee and Halladay, not a decent outfielder that doesn’t walk and has seen his power decline every year since he’s been in the majors. If they wouldn’t trade Brown for the best pitcher in baseball why the hell would they trade him for a guy who’s maybe in the top 30 for outfielders?

         
  • Posts: 0 bill poore

    way too much for Pence!!!!! Matt Kemp,YES.

     
  • Posts: 426 Publius

    Avatar of Publius

    God this trade would make more problems than it solves. Who plays LF next year? Who fills in a couple years down the road if Cole goes elsewhere or Roy/Cliff get injured? Where do we find the money to re-sign Jimmy, Madson and/or Cole in a couple years with Pence hitting arbitration?

    All these questions arise just for a good (not great) OFer who hits decently against lefties with average D. Oy.

     
    • Posts: 1435 Pat Gallen

      Avatar of Pat Gallen

      Pub, you know me, I’m often very fair when it comes to putting my thoughts out there. But you and I see eye-to-eye here. This would NOT be good.

       
    • Posts: 1183 Manny

      Avatar of Manny

      I join the chorus here. WTF are the Phillies doing????

      Any two of our top 3 would be too much. Cosart AND Singleton is too much. Now they’re talking about Brown. You better be effin kidding me.

       
  • Posts: 0 teddy

    i hope this is all smoke to get the braves to cough up a lot more than they want for pence

     
  • Posts: 0 Ryan

    Who cares about the farm system? Those guys are years away from being Major League ready, and they could easily end up being nothing. Wasn’t Michael Taylor a can’t miss prospect? And Mark Prior, what’s he doing? Weird things happen with these guys. With Pence, you know what you’re getting. You don’t even know what you’re gettign with Dom Brown. When you have an opportunity to win that is so rare, you HAVE to pull the trigger and go all in. You have too.

     
    • Posts: 0 Charlie

      but you dont have to. They can win the WS with what they have and still keep their pieces together to contend for the next 5 years instead of 2.

       
      • Posts: 0 kcdaylight

        The Phillies cant win it all the way they are…They last two nights …2 runs and we looked BAD .I think Quinten is a better fit but the Sox are not selling yet…Just check our line up and see how bad we are -really ..No power at all

         
    • Posts: 0 Ryan H.

      Michael Taylor was never a “cant miss” prospect. he was a guy who had one monster minor league season and his value shot up and the phils traded him at the top of that value before reality set in. Mark Prior? he was a dominant pitcher for a minute but was derailed by injury. if not for injuries he’d still be dominating the national league most likely.

       
    • Posts: 0 CZ

      This is so misguided. What you are failing to realize is that Domonic Brown is basically as good as Hunter Pence RIGHT NOW! You don’t even have to dig into sabrmetrics to see this. Brown has a higher AVG, OBP & OPS since the break and neither of them are very good fielders. The difference is that Brown is 23 yrs old and will only get better. Pence will only regress. Brown is cost controlled for 4 or 5 more seasons so we can then afford to pay a LF next year and resign Jimmy and Hamels. There are so may things wrong with this trade that I don’t have enough energy to state them all.

       
  • Posts: 0 Ryan H.

    my god please tell me these reports are completely fabricated. this is insanity. hopefully somebody from Houston is just making this stuff up hoping it will cause Atlanta to up their package to get him.

     
  • Posts: 0 robert

    You would want a years worth of Hand jobs for this trade! I agree totally with your opinion on this one! Its make no sense to say Brown is untouchable for lee or Halliday and then trade him with 2 blue chip prospects for an average outfielder……
    Even though we will control him for 2 more seasons , they are arbitration years! I would make a run for Ludwick and roll the dice. That is what the playoffs are all about.

     
  • Posts: 0 Mazinman

    I don’t think the trade is necessarily Cosart, Singleton, and Brown. I think Cosart, Singleton, and someone else was one trade and now they are working on another. Considering that reports have the Braves backing off I think that takes away from of the pressure from the Phils.

    Honestly, I am getting tired of hearing about how great Domonic Brown is when I haven’t seen that anywhere on the field with any consistency. The way I see it, years from now we will either regret trading away baseball’s newest superstar Domonic Brown for only Hunter Pence or that we did not get Hunter Pence for that disappointment Domonic Brown when we had the chance. At this point it can go either way so I would rather do the one that gives us the best chance of winning the World Series this year and next and that is Hunter Pence.

    By the way, if Domonic Brown is so great then why are the Astros so quick to want to move him?

     
    • Posts: 1435 Pat Gallen

      Avatar of Pat Gallen

      Manziman, there is a reason why Brown was rated the #1 prospect in baseball. Because EVERYONE in the know thinks he’s a player. That couldn’t have changed with 240 at-bats at the major league level, could it?

       
      • Posts: 0 Mazinman

        Yes Pat because EVERYONE are always right and the prospects EVERYONE considers the best always end up being superstars.

        Its one thing to be considered one of the top prospects while still in the minors but it is another thing to still be considered that in the Majors. I can only judge by what I see with my own eyes and that is that Brown is not close to being a star. I could very well be totally wrong here but that’s what I see. For comparison, Heyward of the Braves may be struggling this year but he showed his potential last year. I have not seen Brown play up to his potential yet.

         
      • Posts: 0 Ryan H.

        manzinman: how do you think heyward is so much better than brown? last year heyward hit .277 with 18 bombs. this year he’s hitting .223 with 11 so far. brown is hitting .250 with 5 homers so far. not really much of a difference there.

         
      • Posts: 0 Mazinman

        I did not say that Heyward is better than Brown. What I said was that Heyward demonstrated his potential with a strong rookie season so even though he is struggling this year at least you have a foundation of success in the Majors that you can work with. Brown has not shown that.

        We know that Domonic Brown is not the kind of player that jumps into the Majors in his rookie season and sets the world on fire like Howard or Posey did. If he is going to become a star that will take time. The question here is now long that will take, if it happens at all. I believe that is not a question that a team that is hunting for a world championship can afford especially when their entire offense right now is one big question mark.

        Either give me someone with more offensive consistency or someone who play good defense out there. Either one is better than Domonic Brown right now.

         
  • Posts: 0 BirmCori

    Way too much to give up, but in all honesty, I think Brown can be moved. If he’s a bargaining chip, let someone else vet him and train him. We pulled him up way too soon and he’s not ready for the big leagues yet. Mayberry can fill his shoes just fine and between Mayberry and Pence’s experience, we may have something going on again in Right Field. So far, all Brown’s been is hype. I’d like to see him do more to prove he’s worth it. Nice kid, wish him well, but we did him a dis-service by bringing him up too soon.

     
  • Posts: 0 JohnHoz

    I totally agree with this article. I’m tired of hearing about this very pedestrian ballplayer and Wade can go pound sand for turning down such a generous offer. Our top two prospects should have more than got it done, but turning down Domonic too??? Brown will be better than Pence can ever hope to be someday soon. I believe in the old adage that sometimes the best trade is the one you don’t make, as is the case here.
    Still need a RH bat, go after Upton for lower prospects or give Mayberry Jr. more playing time. We have the best record in baseball, Astros the worst…SCREW THEM!!! Wish we could move Francisco for Upton or Quentin.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ryan H.

    I’d trade dom brown for a legitimate righty power bat. like maybe Manny ramirez circa 2008. but that’s about it.

     
  • Posts: 0 Jeff

    Dom Brown for a Manny of 08. LOL. You guys are just plain stupid. First off get it out of your head. Brown is not that good of a player. He gets that high mark in AAA. NOt MLB..Much different picthing he cant hit. There is no way anyone would trade him for a great manny r. I am so glad I trust Ruben and his is running this team then you guys. Now go back to your 9-5 jobs.

     
    • Posts: 426 Publius

      Avatar of Publius

      Dom has an OPS+ of 103. League average is around 100. He’s 24 and cost controlled for another 4 or 5 years. He’s ALREADY producing at league average and has 3 more years to develop before hitting his peak.

      But you obviously have a preconceived notion of his abilities and are gonna hate on him regardless, so I’ll stop here.

       
  • Posts: 0 bart shart

    Pat, you are absolutely correct. Pence is a good player, by no means great. The Phils need to say bye-bye to Ed Wade’s madness and seek a right handed bat elsewhere. Names like BJ Upton, Ty Wigginton, Jeff Francoeur, Melky Cabrera (switch hitter), Carlos Beltran all come to mind and would serve the team well for at least two years. Don’t trade Brown or Vance Worley. The sooner we get off of Pence and move to other possibilities, the better our deal-making will be.

     
    • Posts: 0 Ryan H.

      i’m in favor of the wigginton / francouer route myself. a part time platoon player with some pop. I’d prefer wigginton if he’s available. you could get him cheap too.

      don’t forget there are always waiver wire deals too. we’ve seen some pretty good players contribute to playoff runs that were acquired after the july 31st deadline

       
  • Posts: 0 Fig

    I think the Phils need to look at John Mayberry a little harder. I think he could be as good as Werth, if not better. He needs time to play, just like Werth needed. Why trade away Brown and prospects for Pence, when we have what we need to win the Series now.

     
    • Posts: 0 Ryan H.

      exactomundo!!!!! you’re already the favorite to win the series (vegas even says it so you can’t argue) and none of these pieces in trade talks really make you substantially better as a team. makes no sense. people are totally carried away with pence. he’s just a guy. nice player but nothing special.

       
    • Posts: 0 john

      yeah and we were suppose to have what we needed last year too, but what happened??? our offense which has been shaky last year and all this year blew!!!! oh and we score one run the past 2 games over the same 2 pitchers who kept us from goin to the series last year, wise up fellows!!! we need consistency and pence will give us that!!

       
  • Posts: 0 TheDipsy

    Pence is a very good player and I would love to have him. DBrown is not a good player right now. His swing sucks and he can’t play the field and he’s a little dopey. But a lot of future stars were like that. After watching him, I think less of him now than if he never would have come up at all. If we keep him, he’s gonna have to change his swing and learn to effin field. That said, he built just like a young Straw. Thinking about Darryl makes me cry he was gonna be so good, Met or not. What a swing.

    Maybe we have something else coming back with Pence, like a reliever or something. Think about it in the inverse though. If I’m an Astro fan (they exist) and this deal gets made, I drive to Ed Wade’s house with a malatov cocktail in the backseat and a warmed up right arm. KnowwhatImsayin…woooorrrrrrrrrd.

    The Dipsy

     
    • Posts: 4146 Lefty

      Avatar of Lefty

      Well stated counselor. There has to be more to this, the third team is assumed to be for Houston’s benefit only, maybe there is something else for us too. It’s the only way it makes sense.

      I would not want to be Ed Wade, Pence is very popular in Houston. Iknowhatyoursayin’
      Said

       
  • Posts: 0 john

    Wow, reading these comments is making me go insane… I would like this trade, for one brown has cost us more games this year with his horrible defense than hes won for us with his horrible production.. and prospects come and go, and only a few turn out to play in the majors, why not take a given .280+ hitter who has pop for the rest of the year, and trade away what may never come to the majors.. I really hope the phils make this move, it makes the most sense.. Brown has been painful to watch so for, yes he may be young but his defense is so shaky and it seems like he doesnt care to improve it..

     
    • Posts: 426 Publius

      Avatar of Publius

      Batting average, failing to realize that Dom’s defense is better than Rauls, ignoring salary implications, overblown hyperbole….this post has it all! Nice!

       
      • Posts: 0 john

        rauls defense this year has been way better the browns… and ur salary would hurt but we do get some people off the books in the offseason that will be helpful

         
      • Posts: 0 John

        Other John:

        Raul Ibanez is a horrible defender. He has given up 22 defensive runs this year. Brown has only given up 3. Not to mention that Brown is young, cost-efficient, under team-control, and has the potential to be a star. Not to mention Brown has been nagged by that hand injury, and has still put up a .338 On Base Percentage. That’s better than every Phillie not named Chase Utley, Shane Victorino or Carlos Ruiz. His .737 OPS is better than every Phillie not named Chooch, Utley, Howard or Mayberry. All this at the age of 23 in his first season. His average may not be there, but he’s taking walks and that’s a good sign. For comparison, Pence’s OBP is .356 and his OPS is .828. Pence is an All-Star and 28 years old.

        Brown is helpful. His fielding needs work, but it’s nothing compared to Raul’s. Pence is a good complementary piece. But he’s not worth 3 Top 50 Prospects. Certainly not Dom Brown, who is already approaching the numbers of Hunter Pence at age 23. All of this with a slightly-unlucky BABIP of .275, well below Pence’s insanely lucky .370 BABIP.

        He. Is. Not. Worth it.

         
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Here’s my take on this trade. . . . . Who would help you more in the playoffs, World Series this year . .. Pence or Brown ?

    To me.. its Pence, and i’d do the deal.. you have no idea what any of the A-ball players will ever become.. to add an All-Star quality OF, and a much-needed RH bat, I would do that today


    What I don’t understand is why we didn’t give up Cosart for Beltran?? I heard David Montgomery axed that deal because Beltran is just a rental …. a rental that would have allowed us to keep Brown and solve the RH bat problem

     
    • Posts: 426 Publius

      Avatar of Publius

      Pence may help better now, but not by much. Next year, and the year after that? It could easily be a push, and when you add in salary, Brown is a lot better option. This would be a massive overpay for a very small gain, which could be found cheaper through other methods, like waiver wire or getting a Melky Cabrera or Ryan Ludwick.

       
    • Posts: 1183 Manny

      Avatar of Manny

      Pence was playing over his head up to the All-Star break. He’d be a marginal upgrade over what we have now. Sure we’d up our chances to win it all this year (when we already have the highest chance to win it in the first place without making any moves!!) but significantly reduce our chances of being a playoff team 2, 3, 4, 5 years from now.

      And I’m surprised that of all people, Don is the one who wants to go all in for Pence… after forever advocating that it would be better to be a contending team every year and keeping it somewhat affordable for fans… Bringing Pence would change that… the implications are enormous.

      Check this post out: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/philly-offer-for-pence-too-good-to-pass-up/

       
  • Posts: 0 Jeff

    You guys keep bringing up melkey and upton. we already have three players like them. if the stros dont like our prospects what does that tell you…third team will take brown and will make it work. this trade will happen soon. i watch hunter play because he is on my fantasy team. this guy is a solid player. he will hit .295 with 25 homers and 95 rbis in our ballpark maybe 100 with our lineup. brown wont touch those numbers. get brown out of your head. he is only talented because this town has builded him up. my mets friend said he did not want him on the mets for beltran. costs us a bunch of games with his horrible fielding.

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

    Trade Dom Brown?
    How could you?
    Trade Worley?
    How Could you?
    Trade Cliff Lee?
    How?
    Trade JA Happ and his 6.12 ERA?
    Never

    You move players to make the team better.

    Take your tampons and douchebags out and understand you move players.

    Can you ever move Howard?
    No sorry you cant.

     
  • Posts: 0 Jeff T

    Will not renew season tickets if this happens

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

    Imagine moving Utley and Rollins.

    Oh youd cry dear jesus how.

    Oh you would cry and it would be glorious.

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

    Imagine trading everyone but Lee, Halladay and Hamels.

    You couldnt pick a worse team from scratch.

    And youd cry about losing them.

     
  • Posts: 2 Rob Senter

    Avatar of Rob Senter

    It’s funny, a lot of folks are talking about how low Dom Brown’s average is and what a bad hitter her is, blah blah blah. Apparently these folks are all too young to remember that Mike Schmidt his a buck 98 his first full season in the majors with only 18 homers. I didn’t hear anyone back then screaming that we should trade him away for Ron Cey (or whatever other third baseman was out there). You gotta give the young guys time to grow into their major league selves, and that’s where my problem with this trade comes in. Yes, Pence is a nice player and made the All-Star game but my God I’d rather see Brown play a full season or two to see what he can do before I decide he needs to be traded away. As I recall, it was once said that Chase Utley would never be an everyday second baseman in the majors and look what he’s done.

     
  • Posts: 1183 Manny

    Avatar of Manny

    From Fangraphs: “The package being offered up for Pence is almost as good as the one that the Toronto Blue Jays received when they traded Roy Halladay to the Phillies. Arguably one of the top-three pitchers in all of baseball and a true No. 1 ace, the right-hander netted Toronto pitcher Kyle Drabek, catcher Travis d’Arnaud, and outfielder Michael Taylor. Halladay was a 5.0 to 7.0 WAR pitcher at the time of the trade. Pence is a 3.0 to 4.0 WAR position player. “

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

    If somehow you could get Toronto to take Howard and his 25 million for Bautistanad his 14 million.
    Youd cry

     
  • Posts: 0 PhillyfanTA

    There are a few good points in this thread… but, bottom line = I trust our pro scouts and Ruben Amaro (the team that landed Doc, Lee, and Oswalt) more than the average fan outlook.

     
    • Posts: 426 Publius

      Avatar of Publius

      And is the same team responsible for overpaying Howard and Ibanez? You put your trust in shaky hands.

       
      • Posts: 0 PhillyfanTA

        @ Publius…. Those alleged shaky hands are responsible for the best record in baseball! Every GM in every sport occasionally overpays… but, you are guaranteed to miss 100% of the shots you do not take! I still trust them….

         
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    If Mike Schmidt, in his rookie year… was the weak link in an otherwise World Series-ready team ….

     
  • Posts: 0 Jeff

    @Pub, you have no idea my little friend. Yes, Mr. Jr did somethings I dont agree with. Over paying Howard everyone would of at the time. The guy was a monster.

    Lets see, getting Doc, Lee-twice. Oswalt, Polly, Lidge for our world series run, but your right he is shakey. Thats why he is running a mulit billion dollar franchise and you are working 9-5 at your job. Let him do what he needs to do. We need Pence to protect that linup of lefties. Maybe it would help Howard. Stop already with all this nonsence. I realize the Eagle s u c k but let the phillies do there thing

     
  • Posts: 0 John Mac

    Send Brown packing !!!! This kid can’t play defense and has zero hustle, and another 2 years in the league are not going to change that. I can’t remember the last time I saw a major league ball player so shaky in the outfield!! I cringe everytime the ball is hit to right field. He will be out of baseball in five years !!!!

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

    Just a FYI for all the big men on campus.
    Pence isnt even enough.

    He helps but he doesnt beat the Giants.

     
    • Posts: 0 Bus Stop Rat Bag

      yeah because losing 1 playoff series and 1 3 gamer means we cant beat the giants!! where was all the people saying we cant beat anyone last september?? there was none because we beat the giants just as many times as they beat us last year.

       
  • Posts: 64 bacardi

    Avatar of bacardi

    M taylor is doing good in AAA they just havent bought him up yet so you cant pass a verdict on him yet.

     
  • Posts: 0 Jeff

    John I agree. When the ball is hit to him I get the tums. Tony Bruno killed Brown. He jogs to the corner the other night. No way that run should of scored. Then the bad dive. He already had two meeting with Charlie about it. I am done with this kid. Yes, done…pence is a work guy like Ultey. Look at his dive into second. Get him Pence. This article is pointless…Then again its philliesnation

     
  • Posts: 0 Ryan H.

    where does this notion of brown not “hustling” come from? if anything, this guy is guilty of hustling to much. trying to stretch doubles into triples and singles in doubles. at least that’s what i’ve noticed.

     
  • Posts: 0 Jeff

    @ryan…look at rowands ball the other night in the corner. look at the ball he did not hustle to first. he is a lally gager. thats all. you guys think he would bring manny of old..lol lol..howard and utley would not bring in manny of old.

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

    Brown hustles and he is learning and hes good

    Me? I’d trade everyone just to watch you guys cry on here.

    JA Happ

    boo hooo

    Vance Worley Booo

    Dom Brown? Booo

    Heaven forbid you could get any sane rational person to eat half the Howard contract.
    You would cry for days.

    Every player is the best.
    Halladay, Hamels and Lee are the best. The rest are chattle.

    And you move one of them if needed.

     
  • Posts: 0 tjayvee

    the myth : ” The Phillies need a rh bat”

    the reality: The only two teams that matter at the point are Atalant and sF. Onlt SF has a lefty starter and he’s thie #4 . Doesn’t figure to see much, if any action, in the post season.
    Both teams have at several lights out lefties in the BP meaning the managers can make several l/r switches late in the game.
    What the Phillies NEED is for Howard and Utley to show thay can hit the top of the rotatition righties from these teams So far, they have come up empty.

     
  • Posts: 0 diamonddog

    Sound to me like we have a lot of Braves and San fran fans posting comments. H.Pence would be a huge upgrade in right field. Brown should have learned how to play right field in the minors appairently he’s a hard study. Brown has way to long of a swing for the majors and reminds me of Lonnie smith when he runs. Pence will make this lineup far better for all concerned. On the positive side we won’t have to give Worley. Do you think we can package up francisco in that deal to to unload him? I could live with Pence, Victorino and Mayberry in our outfield next year.

     
  • Posts: 0 TheDipsy

    Brown will never earn the nickname “Charlie Hustle”. Maybe he’s just so “fluid” that he just “appears” not to try. That the game comes too easily for him. Either that, or he’s got some mutt in him. Other things about Brown that I do not like:

    1. His swings is too long and his hands are held too high. Are the Phillies to take apart his swing and put it back together again and expect that he be a good hitter? That was rhetorical.

    2. He cannot run in a straight line to the ball when it is hit to RF. How long has he been playing the position? 10 years? If he can’t track a ball properly are we gonna teach him? What were they teaching him in HS and the minors? Fielding for an outfielder should not really be an issue by the time he gets to the majors.

    These are real problems with Brown’s game. Glaring ones. And you want him in to field his position adequately in Fenway or Yankee stadium? Thats gonna be a problem.

    Do what you want Ruben. I thinks its a 50/50 thing.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 2920 Chuck A.

    Avatar of Chuck A.

    I’m in the camp that advocates doing the deal. Gotta improve the lineup for THIS year. Pence is the RH bat needed to COMPLEMENT the Phillies lineup.

    Yes, I know Brown MAYBE will be this great player. But we really don’t know. Gotta play for now and go all in.

     
  • Posts: 0 tjayvee

    Dipsy.

    I think you are dead on about Brown. Of course the Astros see that as well.
    The only thing going for Brown at that point is that he is a recognizable name But I think
    the Phillies would have to give up much more to get Pence.

     
  • Avatar of The Original Chuck P

    Sick to my stomach… you give up Brown, I don’t know what kind of team you’ll be looking at in two years but it won’t be anything like the one we’re looking at today. No way we’ll be able to afford to replace Ibanez and Rollins this year and keep Vic, Polly and Hamels when their time comes.

    Pence might give you more than Brown between now and October… I’d say it’s debateable but I’ll give it to you. But next year, you’ll have to pay Pence the raise he’s owed PLUS you’ll still have to find an outfielder to replace Ibanez. I’m not sure how the Phillies can keep up with the escalating payroll when they keep giving away their prospects.

     
    • Posts: 2920 Chuck A.

      Avatar of Chuck A.

      In 2, 3, 4 years this team won’t be like this year’s team REGARDLESS of whether we keep Brown or not. If Brown showed us more RIGHT NOW….I’d be more hesitant. But, as of now…other than POTENTIAL….he’s shown me very little. That all could change as he develops over the next few years.

      Do the deal.

       
  • Posts: 1435 Pat Gallen

    Avatar of Pat Gallen

    Please take a look at the updated post above. Mike Baumann came up with some good stats pertaining to the top prospects

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

    You replace Ibanez and Rollins with a warm body in left (anyone literaly) and a competant defensive SS

    Neither are tough to accomplish.

    The love affair with the bird in the hand is mind boggling.

    Brown tries and he is learning. He lacks instincts like Mike Devereaux did. You cant ever teach a football player those.

     
    • Posts: 1435 Pat Gallen

      Avatar of Pat Gallen

      Andrew, name one competent defensive SS the Phillies could get next year instead of Rollins? They don’t exist.

       
  • Posts: 0 Lucille Jeffreys

    Andrew of Waldorf —– How dare you insult women with your foul messages. I have half a mind to meet you somewhere so I can beat some sense into your chauvinistic idiotic brain.
    This is NOT 1950, 1960 or 1970 you dumb jerk. I spent 20 years in the Marines dealing with creeps like you and hope I get to meet you. Then we will see how chauvanistic and stupid you are. I hope you can handle a fifth degree black belt. I read this blog and usually never comment. But your blatant ignorance has really pissed me off. YOU PUNK !!! You probably don’t like African American women either.

     
    • Posts: 2920 Chuck A.

      Avatar of Chuck A.

      You go, girl!

       
    • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

      I do not know who you are. If you are a troll or anything else.

      This post made my day and I will come to a parade in Philly if it happens ( would involve Howard hitting so unlikely) and I would love to meet you.

      I am sorry if I insulted women for it was not intended.

       
      • Posts: 2920 Chuck A.

        Avatar of Chuck A.

        That’s right cause how many RBI will Howard have in the postseason, Andrew???

         
      • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

        @ chuck I am laughing so hard.
        God bless the phillies and any deal they make.

        This one post may make Howard a better hitter. It made my life.

        I am making it my facebook status.

        I hope to see Lucille and the Dipsy at the parade.

         
      • Posts: 0 Bus Stop Rat Bag

        would you shut up already?

         
  • Posts: 2920 Chuck A.

    Avatar of Chuck A.

    Pat, I saw that. Very nice list. In 3, 4, 5 years I hope that D Brown is on a similar list that someone puts together. He’s got all the potential in the world. But, again this is about THIS year. Simply put….do you want Pence or Brown come the postseason?? Cause that’s really what this is all about…the postseason.

     
    • Posts: 1435 Pat Gallen

      Avatar of Pat Gallen

      Chuck A., I’d still rather have Brown. Hunter Pence is not a game changer. If we were talking about Matt Kemp or a top rated OF, then fine. People are falling in love with Pence because hes the hot name at the time, and at the same time the Phillies have a gaping hole with RH bats. That shouldnt mean a trade should be made hastily.

       
  • Posts: 0 thatguymax

    I honestly want to see dom brown stick around for, if no other reason, then to grow and mature with mayberry… I feel like in the coming years they will be a serious force in the future and a great 1-3 batters

     
  • Posts: 0 Mazinman

    Apparently Olney is saying the Phillies have no intention of adding Brown to the trade. I wonder what the discussion is then.

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

    Andrus Jeter Tuiliwitzski Ramirez Reyes Ian desmond furcal cabrera castro escobar aybar

    Its really endless. Just play defense we dont need you to hit first and pop up. Someone else can.

     
    • Posts: 1435 Pat Gallen

      Avatar of Pat Gallen

      Haha, this comment made my day!

      Yes Id rather have 40 year old Jeter at $15 million per season, too! And Ian Desmond and his 30 errors.

       
  • Posts: 1435 Pat Gallen

    Avatar of Pat Gallen

    The Phillies gave up Drabek, Taylor, D’Arnaud for Roy Halladay.

    Before you tell me that none of them have done anything, think back. They were the top 3 prospects in the Phillies system and they got you Roy Halladay.

    You mean to tell me that the Top 2 prospects and Dom Brown ARE NOT ENOUGH to get you Hunter Pence? Hunter Pence is not that kind of player, he’s a Top 20 OF at best.

     
  • Posts: 0 TheDipsy

    Lucille – I am sure AWF didn’t mean anything by his message referring to tampons and douchebags. As I am sure you are aware, douchebags are very unhealthy for regular use by women, and AWF should know this. His use of the term was reckless and in this way he was insensitive. While I cannot get your back regarding his mention of tampons (they are necessary and effective), I will stand behind you if AWF is actually bigotted against African American women (known to the rest of the world as “black chicks”). Don’t think I missed that Mike Devereaux crack either.

    That said: Lets clean it up on here. This is supposed to be a forum for Phillies related discussion and not a rave up so that narrow minded middle aged men and alternative lifestyled, black, female, ex-marines (Semper Fi and thanks for serving BTW.) exchange racially and female hygienically charged barbs. JMO.

    The Dipsy

     
    • Posts: 2920 Chuck A.

      Avatar of Chuck A.

      hahahahahahahahaha. Priceless sh!t on here..

       
 
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