Quantcast


Phillies Trade Rumors: Intriguing Names, Conflicting Info

Posted by Corey Seidman, Wed, July 27, 2011 07:00 AM | Comments: 50
Analysis, News, Opinion, Posts, Trades

Tuesday was a busy night for the NL East. The Phillies dismantled the Giants thanks to four homers, tremendous defense and the first complete game of Vance Worley‘s promising career. Four hours later, the Braves downed the Pirates on one of the worst calls in major league history. The game went 19 innings, but one error in judgment by a mistaken umpire made the previous 37 half-innings meaningless.

While Jerry Meals’ name will be bandied about as much Wednesday as Carlos Beltran or Hunter Pence, the fact remains that the trade deadline is more important to the Phillies today then this morning’s controversial call. With the story changing every two hours, what do we know?

Carlos Beltran

Well, we know that the Phils have “cooled” significantly on Beltran. That was reported first by Jayson Stark and later confirmed by Ken Davidoff (Newsday) and Joel Sherman (New York Post.) The Mets apparently asked the Phillies for Domonic Brown straight up. Ruben Amaro wisely declined. Sandy Alderson then asked for Jarred Cosart. Amaro again said no.

As of this moment, it appears that the Mets will get much less than anticipated for two months of Beltran. They will not get the sought-after A-level prospect nor will they get a gaggle of high-upside youngsters. Stark opines that the Mets may have to settle for an interesting prospect and some salary relief. Money has not been an issue for the Mets in this particular case (as strange as that may sound.) But with the prospects of a big-time prospect dwindling, saving money might be the best bet.

Watch for the Braves to make a final push at Beltran. They will be without catcher Brian McCann for at least 15 days now, as McCann strained an oblique in last night’s marathon.

Hunter Pence

Hunter Pence has been talked about for weeks. (PHOTO: AP)

Two days ago, the Phillies were out of the Pence sweepstakes and the Astros rightfielder was all but off the market. A day later, the Phillies were once again regarded as his most aggressive pursuer. Pence would work well in Philadelphia, as my brother shrewdly pointed out two months before everyone realized he was on the market. But if the cost is as ridiculous as some have speculated … pass.

There have been nonsensical rumors of Pence for Brown, Cosart and Jonathan Singleton. I wish that everyone who supported that, believed that or didn’t automatically dismiss it could be thrown in a duffel bag and shipped to Easter Island to learn the basics of common sense. An organization does not trade its top prospect, its most intriguing offensive prospect, and a 23-year-old major league ready player with enormous potential. When it does do that, we laugh at it ten years later, as we do when it comes to the Expos trading Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips and Grady Sizemore to Cleveland for Bartolo Colon.

If you can get Pence for Singleton, Brody Colvin and another piece … maybe. Okay, probably. But Houston is under no pressure to trade Pence. He has another two years of team control left at a reasonable price for his services, and if Ed Wade feels he can get just as much for Pence next year, why trade him now?

B.J. Upton

Upton is being referred to as the alternative to Beltran and Pence. The Nationals and Giants are hard after him, and the Phillies have expressed some interest as well. But it’s not a fit here. Upton’s value is derived mostly from his stellar defense in centerfield. But the Phillies already have a speedy centerfielder who would probably stay at his position while Upton moves to right. The Phils are looking for a big-time bat, not a slight defensive upgrade.

Upton hit .300 in his first full season thanks to an inflated, non-line drive driven .393 BABIP. That, along with his #1 overall draft status, unfortunately made most think that .300 was his true talent level. It is not. His true talent level has proven to be ~.250 with good baserunning and defense, and no firm spot in a batting order. He’d make sense for Washington, but not the Phils. Especially considering the pricetag.

Colby Rasmus, Carlos Quentin

Two new names to the trading block. Rasmus is being actively shopped despite his youth and promise because of seemingly perpetual disagreements with the Cardinals coaching staff. Tony La Russa’s latest comment was that Rasmus “doesn’t listen to his coaches,” leading to his prolonged funks. Rasmus is having a poor year, but is still OPSing .753 with 11 homers. He has made many defensive miscues this year in center, but he is the perfect example of a player in need of a fresh start. I can’t see Rasmus coming here because the Phillies will be St. Louis’ top competition for an NL title in the years to come. They won’t trade him here unless they are absolutely wowed.

Quentin doesn’t look to be a real possibility, either. The White Sox have been schizophrenic, wanting to buy one day and sell the next, but most believe they’ll either buy or stand pat at the deadline. Even through all the struggles, the Pale Hose are 1.5 games closer to first place than the Braves. Quentin has been a major part of that. Why would they trade him so soon after sweeping the Indians and playing the Tigers well?

Heath Bell, Mike Adams, Leo Nunez, Koji Uehara

Nunez is apparently off the market. Uehara has incredible numbers and doesn’t stand to make much money next year, but the Orioles have been a bit more protective of him than most would expect.

Bell is probably going to the Cardinals — at least he would in the most logical of worlds — and Adams looks like he’s staying put. That is, of course, unless the Phillies make a serious run at Adams. Since 2008, Adams has a 1.67 ERA and 0.90 WHIP. How? Well, because he learned a cutter prior to ’08, and has since perfected it to the point that nobody other than Mariano Rivera has saved more runs with the pitch. Adams’ cutter has been worth 26.7 runs above average the last four years, helping him transform from a journeyman into one of the five best relievers in baseball.

The Phillies probably don’t need a reliever. But not going after Adams is like not pursuing an opportunity with a really hot girl because you’re content with an average looking girl you fight with a bit too much.

Avatar of Corey Seidman

About Corey Seidman

Corey Seidman has written 207 articles on Phillies Nation.

Corey is Analysis Editor for Phillies Nation and also writes for CSNPhilly.com.

 
 
  • Posts: 0 TheDipsy

    My guess is Beltran. I don’t why its so important to get a guy that the team can keep under its control. Give me two months of Beltran. I checked him and he bats higher as a righty than a lefty over his career. I think people are gonna really start to hear Worley’s name now and I’m starting to think that he might fetch you a lot. If I’m not mistaken, that was his last start before the deadline, no? Beltran and a prospect for Worley. Ha.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 Frank Riccard

    “The Phillies probably don’t need a reliever. But not going after Adams is like not pursuing an opportunity with a really hot girl because you’re content with an average looking girl you fight with a bit too much.”

    Been there, ha ha.

     
  • Posts: 0 Jeff

    That call in the braves game was the worst I have ever seen. He tagged him a foot before the plate. What reason was he safe. The catcher walked into him. Amazing. Ump should be fired b

     
  • Posts: 64 bacardi

    Avatar of bacardi

    that call was the freaking worst OMG like really…lol…I think its best if they knock on Pence door then…

     
  • Posts: 0 JoeyM

    I read your brother’s article it’s awesome, hopefully they can get Pence without giving up Worley or Brown. Idk too much about Singleton or Cosart but I really want Pence hopefully they can work something out.

     
  • Posts: 0 John

    As long as we don’t deal Worley.

     
  • Posts: 3570 Lefty

    Avatar of Lefty

    It’s tricky this year because so many teams are buyers. Glad that some like Beltran’s stock had fallen. I don’t believe Hunter Pence was ever really available to us, I think he was a smokescreen. Why would Wade trade him, it make no sense.The few fans left would all turn in their season tickets. They’d burn him Wade in effigy especially after the year Happ has had.

    IMO- One of two things will happen. Either the White Sox or the Twins will lose a game or two in the loss column, and finally decide that Quentin and Cuddyer should be shopped. Those will be our last minute targets. And one of them will drop in our lap.

    I’m thinking Charlie would prefer Quentin, and I’d prefer Cuddyer. But one of those two teams will drop out and suddenly become sellers. My best guess, next Sunday at 4pm- Carlos Quentin will be a Phillie.

     
  • Posts: 1431 Pat Gallen

    Avatar of Pat Gallen

    Id also like to see Carlos Quentin in Philly, but here’s the thing – the White Sox will want a ton for him. Cosart, Singleton, Colvin, May, all of those guys will be in play for Chicago. There is no way to get either Quentin or Pence and not give up at least one of those four.

    I keep seeing people talking about Kendrick and Lidge – come on people, they aren’t worth anything to another team.

     
  • Posts: 3570 Lefty

    Avatar of Lefty

    Pat’s right. No one wants our garbage, although we might be able to sneak one in as part of a deal. But Pat, the thing about the White Sox is that Ken WIlliams said he’s either going to contend, or “turn over the entire roster”. To me, that’s the key. If he is going to do that, then each piece may be worth just a little less.

    If all he was going to do was trade Quentin, then I would agree that he would have a heavy asking price. But say he trades 3 guys before Quentin, maybe he softens a bit because he has already picked up some solid pieces.

    Honestly after listening to Stark on here last night, (thanks for providing that) I’m a little less enthused that we can get anything done.

     
  • Avatar of The Original Chuck P

    If the Braves don’t make a big trade today or tomorrow I’ll be shocked… McCann goes down and suddenly it feels like the season is over in the clubhouse. They’re still the favorites for the Wild Card but they need some help… they can’t lose the clubhouse. Chipper hurt his leg (again) in a rehab start so his return has to be questionable and at some point they’ll realize how much of an uphill battle they actually have to keep the ship afloat.

     
  • Posts: 1103 Manny

    Avatar of Manny

    WOW That call at home was probably the worst one I’ve ever seen… It wasn’t even close. The runner was a dead duck, got tagged, and then he was called safe? Wow. Just wow.

    I’m not crazy over Quentin… maybe cause he’s an AL player and I’m not that familiar with him, but I don’t know if he’s as great as the White Sox think he is. The past three years (2008-2010) he actually hit RHP way better than LHP (.225 avg vs .269)…. same goes for his SLG. However, I was looking at Beltran’s splits and apparently he’s also doing SUBSTANTIALLY WORSE vs lefties than vs righties (average, OPS, OBP)… In that sense, it seems that Quentin might be a better fit for us.

    I think that if we’re gonna get a bat, the number one priority should be that guy’s performance against LHP. It would be cool to see an article/post that breaks them down by splits. Ultimately, our major concern at this point should be the steady diet of LHP we’ll face during the playoffs… and whoever we get should help us get rid of that weakness.

     
    • Posts: 1103 Manny

      Avatar of Manny

      I just realized Beltran’s BAbip is extremely low vs LHP this year… It’s at .203 so he’s probably getting unlucky this year. His career stats show he’s notably better vs lefties. My bad.

       
  • Posts: 0 bart shart

    Matt Kemp for Ross Gload. Great deal for the Phils.

     
    • Posts: 0 frankriccard1336

      Be reasonable, Bart.

      We’re going to have to give up Gload AND a major piece like Dannys Baez for someone like Kemp. Plus its the Dodgers, so they’ll want some salary relief as well, like maybe an autographed Von Hayes bat that they can sell on eBay.

       
      • Posts: 1103 Manny

        Avatar of Manny

        Haha! Excellent.

         
  • Posts: 1103 Manny

    Avatar of Manny

    Just read that we won’t even give up Singleton for Beltran. I think that’s a good thing..

     
    • Posts: 3570 Lefty

      Avatar of Lefty

      It is good, very good, not for a rental. Give them Rizzotti instead

       
  • Posts: 0 philajaime

    I wouldn’t for a second defend the ump in that Braves game, but I’ll play devil’s advocate for the sake of…well, nothing, actually:

    Meals allegedly had the only viewpoint that mattered, and the only viewpoint the cameras didn’t have: the view between the catcher’s mitt and Lugo’s jersey.

    Lugo said “he didn’t feel the tag”, but let’s disregard his testimony as he’s trying to score at all costs. See Derek Jeter feigning a HBP.

    But the catcher’s claim he did tag him is just as invalid, as he is similarly biased towards getting Lugo out.

    The ump, the only (ideally) impartial party at the scene, said the catcher missed the tag, so he ruled him safe. I don’t know how he missed the tag; he didn’t appear to. But maybe he did. That’s what the ump called.

    It could be all of the camera angles of what seemed to be an easy out were misleading. Maybe there was an infinitesimal gap between the catcher’s glove and Lugo’s body. Whatever the case, there’s no instant replay for plays at the plate, so Braves win.

    I’m just glad I’m not a Bucs fan, because I’d have trouble coming in to work this morning after watching something like that. The ultimate moral is this: Don’t use a pitcher in the 19th…use your utility infielder with a rocket arm!

     
  • Posts: 3570 Lefty

    Avatar of Lefty

    It is. I wish the Royals hadn’t pulled Melky Cabrera off the block, he wouldn’t have cost much and now it doesn’t look like we’ll end up with any of the premier bats we attempted to get anyway.

    BTW- Form earlier, I didn’t say I want Quentin, I said thought that would be Charlie’s preference. (wants a masher) I want Cuddyer, but think we will get Quentin. It’s just a hunch.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    I like the idea of Carlos Quentin too…. but I think that Beltran is the best fit.

    I would give up Cosart for Beltran – because by the time Cosart gets to the Majors and can contribute, there will be no more Utley, Rollins, Halladay, Oswalt, etc . . .

    Our best chance for a World Series win is right now.. those odds improve with Beltran (or others).. I’d like to see us get it done, but I expect that the Braves will be more willing to deal one of their young arms since they’ll be without their best offensive weapon for two weeks with McCann on the DL ….

    I dont want Upton, Pence will cost too much, Willingham isn’t that much of an improvement… etc.. Give me Beltran, please

     
  • Posts: 413 Publius

    Avatar of Publius

    Quentin is a good player, I just don’t think he’s worth the cost. Plus he’s a constant injury risk. If I had my druthers, I would go Rasmus > Pence > Beltran > Upton > Quentin, with only going to the last 2 if the others are taken completely off the market.

    The need for a bat outweighs the need for bullpen help, though with so many decent relief arms on the market Rube should be able to get a nominal upgrade for relatively little cost.

     
    • Posts: 1103 Manny

      Avatar of Manny

      I have the same exact preferences. But where would you put Cuddyer? I think I’d have him between Pence and Beltran.

       
      • Posts: 413 Publius

        Avatar of Publius

        Between Beltran and Upton. Beltran is a beast, is in a contract year and has a track record for flat out exploding in the playoffs. Cuddyer is basically Josh Willingham having an above-average year.

         
  • Posts: 413 Publius

    Avatar of Publius

    Looks like Rasmus is off the table, going to Toronto

     
    • Posts: 1103 Manny

      Avatar of Manny

      Another good example of the Blue Jays buying low… Happened with Yunel Escobar (who is now among the best SS in the league and having a career year)… Now it will probably happen to Rasmus, as well.

       
  • Posts: 20 tyROBasaurus

    Avatar of tyROBasaurus

    With all due respect, I don’t care if that in 10 years the prospects we trade for Hunter Pence turn out to be stars. The Phillies currently have about a 3-year window to win championships. Once Doc and Lee break down, as Howard continues to deteriorate, the window will close. We must be as aggressive as possible to win *right now* while we have elite talent. I don’t think I’m alone in my train of thought here. With the makeup of this current group, I would go for the proven commodity in Pence to help us win the World Series this year and next. The 2021 season isn’t even on my mind. This is the Phillies renaissance period, the future is now. Do what it takes *now*.

     
    • Posts: 1103 Manny

      Avatar of Manny

      I disagree. Three years ago we were saying that the window would close in 2010/2011. Now with a couple moves that window has been extended to 2014/2015. The front office can do moves to keep us competitive in the short-run and the long-run. I don’t think it’s a PICK ONE type of thing. The future matters. I want the Phillies to be a good team till the day I die, and given that there’s a market for it in Philly, that is definitely possible.

       
  • Posts: 0 Ryan H.

    I honestly don’t think the phillies need to, nor should they make any moves. this team is ready to win it all as is. I’m fine with the outfield. I don’t want to part with promising prospects to get a guy who’s going to take AB’s away from Ibanez or brown. and Mayberry is a more than capable 4th outfielder and a great right handed bat off the bench. don’t mess with what ain’t broken.

    we have gotten so used to automatically expecting the big July deal but this year its not necessary. consider getting Polly and Oswalt back like our trade deadline acquisitions.

     
    • Posts: 413 Publius

      Avatar of Publius

      Phillies have a team OPS of .666 vs. left-handed pitching, which is the fifth worst IN ALL OF BASEBALL. The Padres, Pirates and Giants all hit better against lefties than the Phillies. The Braves and Giants’ bullpen are 1-2 in all of baseball against left-handed hitters. Come playoff time, the Phils have a glaring weakness that our main opponents are well-equipped to exploit. The Phils NEED a right-handed bat.

      Don’t confuse regular season success with guaranteed playoff success. This team, awesome as it is doing, has a glaring flaw that will be exploited like crazy come October and needs to be addressed.

       
  • Posts: 2599 Chuck A.

    Avatar of Chuck A.

    Ryan H, …. with all due respect…..you’re wrong. Teams, no matter how good they are, CAN’T STAND PAT. Ya can’t win a championship with that mindset.

     
    • Posts: 0 Ryan H.

      if you don’t think this team is capable of winning a championship as is, youre crazy. in fact, this team is by far and away the overwhelming favorite to win a series right now. and no matter what trades happen with out competition that ain’t gonna change.

      you have to take into account that whoever you plug in to the lineup is taking away AB’s from somebody else. Raul is an everyday player who is heating up right now and putting together another solid season. Brown has to play. maybe you want to platoon him with a right hander who had some pop, and you already have a guy in mayberry to do that with. I just don’t see who you can pick up that is going to make you that much better that would be worth parting with prospects for.

       
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    If Beltran has better Career OPS vs. LHP … and vs. RHP …. and he’d be cheaper to get, I don’t understand why everyone wants Pence so much …

    Beltran has more power, wouldn’t cost Domonic Brown… and has perfomed exceptionally well in playoffs-past …

    I would give up Cosart in a second to get Beltran today

     
    • Posts: 2599 Chuck A.

      Avatar of Chuck A.

      I think it’s because Pence is younger and not injury-prone like Beltran. I like Pence and think he would fit in well in Philly….but it sounds like he’s gonna be more expensive anyway. Beltran, although a rental, will make a bigger impact NOW and might be a lot cheaper.

       
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    @ Manny . . . . the single biggest way the Phillies have managed to keep this window open is to keep raising the PAYROLL . . .

    its not like their just making smart moves.. they’re adding the best players in baseball and paying them as such.. That’s not something you can expect them to keep doing, so without going over the lux tax… or exceeding $200 Million… the past few moves have been the exception, not the rule .. so to NOT go for it now because we think they can keep adding, and adding, and adding to keep that window open for years to come is not realistic in my opinion

     
    • Posts: 1103 Manny

      Avatar of Manny

      Not necessarily.. they can pair up the best players (Halladay, Hamels, Lee, Utley, Howard) with some home grown talent (which we have) –or trading them for MLB pieces— and keep the window open. That is, as long as the farm system is doing well and ownership is willing to sporadically acquire top talent since they can sellout every single game… So far, I don’t see anything that runs against that notion.

       
  • Posts: 0 Fish

    Why does no one talk about Marlon Byrd? How about Byrd?

    He’s under control for next year (6.5 mill).
    He can play all 3 OF postions.
    He’s RH.
    He’s a career .290 something guy with occasional pop,
    He could bat 5th.
    He plays hard and he’s a good club house guy.

    It seems like a logical choice, but no one is talking about him. Why?!?

     
    • Posts: 413 Publius

      Avatar of Publius

      Reverse platoon split. Hitting a terrible .230/.266/.393 vs. lefties. Mediocre defense. Doesn’t bring anything special that’s worth the salary or prospects to get him.

       
  • Posts: 413 Publius

    Avatar of Publius

    Well looks like Beltran is going to SF, dangitall. And we’re down to Pence, Upton, Ludwick, Quentin, Willingham and MAYBE Cuddyer. Blargh.

     
  • Posts: 14 arminius

    Avatar of arminius

    Marlon Byrd would be a great addition.

     
    • Posts: 413 Publius

      Avatar of Publius

      Marlon Byrd actually has a reverse platoon split. Against lefties, he’s hitting a terrible .230/.266/.393, which is WORSE than the Phillies’ current line against lefties. He doesn’t add anything to the club with their biggest weakness, left-handed pitching, and thus isn’t worth the pieces it would take to get him.

       
  • Posts: 2599 Chuck A.

    Avatar of Chuck A.

    Personally, I’d love it if the Twins lost like the next 4 in a row, fell out of the race…..so we get Cuddyer.

     
  • Posts: 770 betasigmadeltashag

    Avatar of betasigmadeltashag

    Ill keep all the prospects and put Mayberry Jr in RF get Dom some work in the off season with his swing and defense. Then next year hope Brown is ready and the outfiield will have three fast good to great defensive outfileders. JR is your RH bat. The Phillies move will be off the waiver wire

     
  • Posts: 0 Jeff

    Reports say phillies offered singleton and cosart for pence. The Astros haven’t said no. Beltran to giants for wheeler.

     
  • Posts: 64 bacardi

    Avatar of bacardi

    Looks like the Giants are getting Beltran…Jeff you just beat me to post…lol

     
  • Posts: 0 Jeff

    Lol. Met fans on wfan are not happy about a single A pitcher.

     
  • Posts: 0 toddfromfairmount

    Lets go get Carlos Quentin.

     
    • Posts: 413 Publius

      Avatar of Publius

      An expensive corner OFer who hasn’t played more than 130 games and whose defense rivals that of Ibanez? No thanks.

       
  • Posts: 0 Hot dog

    I like Pence, but if you are going to get Pence you should have just kept Werth. If you get Pence do you keep Brown or Mayberry on the bench. Makes no sense in platooning Raul and Brown both lefties. Send Francisco in the deal also, I do beleive Mayberry has won the position.

     
    • Posts: 2599 Chuck A.

      Avatar of Chuck A.

      Explain how the Phillies would have kept Werth if another team is offering a ludicrous $126M contract. Just explain that.

       
    • Posts: 0 Jay V

      I hope you’re joking. Pence is pretty much 2x the player is as Werth…and cheaper.

       
 
Leave a Comment

>> Create a new Phillies Nation account.
>> Already registered with Phillies Nation? Log in here.
>> Comment without logging in:






Please ensure your comments comply with our Comment Policy.