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Hamels, Madson, Rollins: Two Out of Three Ain’t Bad

Posted by The Dipsy, Sun, August 28, 2011 06:08 PM | Comments: 50
Analysis, Opinion, Posts, The Dip

(PHOTO: NJ.com)

This post was written by one of our commenters, The Dispy.

The general consensus is that, after the season is over, the Phils will have three big contract issues to deal with: the pending free agency of both Jimmy Rollins and Ryan Madson along with an extension for Cole Hamels. The Phillies, by design or good fortune, have a lot of expiring money coming off the books.

In my view, they are not cash strapped, yet good business and an eye to the future dictate they be prudent when letting their money go. That said, lets tackle these contracts one at a time:

1. Cole Hamels: He is the “must do” out of the three. Its not my money, but I would not be much interested in playing hardball with Cole. He is a star, he’s young, and he’s lefthanded. If I were Cole I’d want five years. Cliff got it so why shouldn’t he? Buying out his 2012 arb years is worth what….16m? Then give him 20m a year after that.? Dipsy’s price: 5y96m

2. Ryan Madson: The “reluctant” closer. He may be good enough to be a closer but he’s never done it for an extended period of time. No track record. While that may change as the season goes on, today is today. By way of comparison shopping, Francisco Cordero makes 4/46, Valverde makes 2y14m, Papelbon 1/12 on an arb year, and in a drug addled stupor, Brian Cashman gave Rafael Soriano three years at….gulp….35 million. And he doesn’t even close. I have a feeling that this is where Boras’ is going to hang his hat when the phones heat up. If that’s what Madson’s price is going to be then I say “happy trails to you!” Lets also be mindful that they’re are gonna be closers floating around next year and we would just pick one. Yes, it is just that easy. And then there’s always that Bastardo fella. Dipsy’s price: 2y/21m-ish.

3. Well, those two were easy for me. Lastly, it’s Jimmy Rollins. Do we really have to talk about all his strengths and weaknesses? For me, he gets props for being a leader. And he is one of those VERY rare players that I’ll tack on a buck or two for being a company man. The number I keep hearing is 3/36. No. No. And no.

While still an excellent fielder, Jimmy has been susceptible to prolonged offensive slumps and injury ever since his MVP season. While he has played well in his contract year, he is now hurt. Again. I, for one, do not want to sit through three long years of injury and spurts of offensive ineffectiveness. We’ve done that with recent players. Its just too much money when you don’t know what you’re getting. If you accept the premise that left field will be upgraded offensively next year, then I think the Phils can do just fine with a capable, professional shortstop. Jimmy has indicated that he is not in any frame of mind to just go year to year or accept a “I-just-wanna-stay-in Philly” type of deal. Dipsy’s price: 2y22m with a mutual option for a third year. Incentives might be good here but Jimmy won’t have it.

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About The Dipsy

The Dipsy has written 29 articles on Phillies Nation.

 
 
  • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

    I know people say they are not cash strapped. And I understand that reasoning.
    But did you know Houston is paying half of Oswalts contract this year? And some of Pences and the Jays had to send 6 million with Roy.
    The Phillies really cant or wont go into the world of the luxury tax. So while its not our money. And I don’t care what they make in relation to the world. I do care in relation to what it does to the franchise and what they are able to do now and in the future.
    Its not an endless money pit where you can grossly over pay half the team.

    Here’s my take.
    Cole Id let him pitch next year. Id not wrap up long term as the arm issues lately scare me.
    Already have enough pitchers wrapped up long term. I see the Lee and Halladay deals as great for now. But I am not so sure in 5 years when they are 37 and making 25 million.

    Madson Id like to have back at a decent price.If you lost him though would have to replace him and that’s not that difficult.

    Jimmy needs to move on. Thank you for your service but this is an old team already. And at some point have to start bringing in or bringing up some younger players.
    Will miss the glove.

    Nice column Dipsy. Nice to see some people still care around here and are putting in some effort.

     
    • Posts: 980 betasigmadeltashag

      Avatar of betasigmadeltashag

      it is eay to say let Jimmy walk it is time to bring up young talent, but the phillies do not have young talent to bring up and teams are not giving up major league readdy ss for a dime a dozen. You pay for a defensive SS. And you let Cole pitch one year and go into FA and you lose him because someone will give a 28 YO lefty with playoff experience and a WS MVP 7-8 years at 20-22 mil a year. That is why you extend him this year for 5 years at an avg of 20 per if you can. Doc only has two years left after this one right. He signed a three year extension starting this year. And Cliff has 3 more with options that come in if he pitches a certin amount of innings to get him to five. Which is the same deal you give Cole with the six year beind based on the innings pitched in the fifth. Cole is young and GOOD he is the ONE you need to sign.
      Closers can be found easily if not cheaply, and I think and have been saying since ST that Bastardo is the Closer for the near future for the phillies, so you offer Madson 2 years 9-10 million and year and ala Jayson, take or let some bottom feeder team overpay you and y ou can be in last place with a lot of money

       
      • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

        None of these players should be considered untoughable or given whatever they want. Cole just had an MRI on his shoulder and hasnt had a start in three weeks.
        Lets see how this postseason plays out on all of these guys.
        Id not think about extending anyone till after the psot season. And we see what they are made of.
        I jsut thnk it all makes too much sense for Jimmy to leave and think he will. Like I thought Werth was going to leave for 2 years and took crap for thinking. Over and over I was told they cant let Werth go. Hes gone hes not missed and the Phillies are actually better in RF now. 8 months later.

         
      • Posts: 980 betasigmadeltashag

        Avatar of betasigmadeltashag

        Cole has not been tested in the post season , you really do not know what he is made of now. WS MVP does not mean anything to performace in post season. And you can not compare Wreth to JRoll, it is a lot easier, especially with what the pHillies had in the minors and on the team to find a guy who could play right field and hit as well as Wreth. you do not need a power hitter or even an aveage hitter at SS and as of now they do not have the depth at infield as they did in outfield. And I do not think JRoll is going to get 5 years 15 million per from anyone. Maybe 3 years but I do not think there are too many teams that will give him 4. And I do not see him going to the Astros, or nationals or a team that is not in contention

         
      • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

        All I am saying is that letting players walk or reach the market isnt devastating.
        I think asked this last week. How many Phillies in the last 10 years have gone to free agency signed somewhere else and the Phillies regretted it?
        I coulnt that at 0.
        There are at least 2 players ( guess who) who were extended past this year that I wish were FAs in 2012.
        So patience is a virtue sometimes.

         
      • Posts: 980 betasigmadeltashag

        Avatar of betasigmadeltashag

        Don’t you think that goes to show that the FO does a good job on who to keep and who to let walk?

         
  • Posts: 0 Frank Riccard

    I agree w/ this.

    Madson is great and all, and I was a big champion of his ascension to the closer role at the beginning of the season, but he’s just not worth overpaying.

    Cole gets whatever he wants.

    I’m praying J-Roll doesn’t make things too difficult. SS is an especially shallow position in general, and this year, unless Hanley Ramirez somehow becomes available all of the sudden, losing J-Roll would only leave us w/ Reyes, who I firmly believe will be either a Giant, or a tremendously overpaid Met.

     
    • Posts: 84 Tom

      Avatar of Tom

      Would rather see them get a good young player who just need a little guidance like Ramirez!! JRo’s best days are behind him!! He’s never been a prototypical lead-off hitter anyway!! Shane can do that!! Definitely sign Cole for the extension that he deserves!! The recent MRI on his shoulder was only precautionary! In today’s market teams will always do that to cover their butt!! Madson is a great setup guy but not deserving of big time closer money…if he wants that, let Bull Dog walk!!

       
  • Posts: 0 bacardipr05

    I agree with most of it. I wouldnt want to offer Jimmy a 3 year deal.Certainly 4 is way out of the question. Depending on the money i may go 3 years reluctantly. We all love Jimmy but he is been injury prone he could be the next Polanco only not as good as a hitter. The Phils have to examine offering aging players lengthy pricey contracts. We also have to keep in mind Jimmy has a lot of Mileage on that body. He was up at the ML level at the age of 21 Polanco came up at 22. Hamels has to be the top Priority for the time been. I would like to see Madson back but not on a crazy contract.

     
  • Posts: 220 The Dipsy

    Avatar of The Dipsy

    I think that going 5 years on a starting pitcher is a risky proposition. I was OK with the Halladay and Lee deals because these guys were still reasonably young with long histories of good arm health. I believe that a four year deal with Cole is possible, and preferable for that matter. But I think that if he pitches for the rest of the season as he has up to now and with no lingering shoulder problems, than you just have to pony up.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 1435 Pat Gallen

    Avatar of Pat Gallen

    I would flip flop Rollins and Madson. Closers are a dime a dozen anymore, but decent shortstops are not. J-Roll is still better than everyone else out there that will be available. I would love to keep Madson, but not if it breaks the bank. I agree that they should offer Rollins a 2 year deal with some sort of option- maybe- for a 3rd. Galvis looks like he could be ready in a few years.

     
  • Posts: 220 The Dipsy

    Avatar of The Dipsy

    A few years? How about a few months?

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 1435 Pat Gallen

    Avatar of Pat Gallen

    Give him a little bit of time. Don’t want to rush him, he’s only 21.

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

    Also the Phillies are in the best salary situation in the league. They are currently second in payroll behind the Yankees. But realistcly thier situation is the best. Because the Yankees have to grossly over pay people to go there. So really the only thing they can do to mess it up is go Mets on themselves and over pay a ton of players long term.

    I just have to believe there are a ton of good glove light hit SSs out there. To me Jimmy is that now anyway. You dont need overpay or have a superstar there. Just someone who can field his position.
    Like Ruiz.

     
  • Posts: 220 The Dipsy

    Avatar of The Dipsy

    Agreed. While Galvis may not be ready, purportedly his glove has been for the last 4 years or so. No, I don’t wanna rush him( tearing it up in AAA I hear), but if he can field like they say he can, he can bat .245 and bat eighth. He’ll look real good there.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 BART SHART

    I like the article, Dipsy. I agree with the thinking. My only concern is Rollins. I do agree with your offer of two years, and a good offer it is. I just hope we are ready for Freddy Galvis, but the only way to find out is to let him play. I would love to see him in September.

     
  • Posts: 5195 Lefty

    Avatar of Lefty

    If the kid has a great glove, he’s ready. Here’s a guy that came up with a great glove, but didn’t hit until his fifth season. He was a pretty good major leaguer. ( not so much as a manager)

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bowala01.shtml

     
  • Posts: 980 betasigmadeltashag

    Avatar of betasigmadeltashag

    Three points and I agree with all of them mostly. Good write Dispy. If Madson wants to get overpaid he is going to get overpaid somewhere else, Maybe even the Mets or the Nats. The thing is he will not go to a team with a closer if he chases the money cause he wants to be a closer. 2/ 20 million tops. I like Jimmy and if this injury does not effect him in the playoffs, may be a good thing for contract talks and other clubs over paying him. I would not be against

     
  • Posts: 220 The Dipsy

    Avatar of The Dipsy

    Here’s a better example: Ozzie Smith.

    The Dipsy

     
    • Posts: 5195 Lefty

      Avatar of Lefty

      Yes exactly or Mark Belanger- a championship player.

       
  • Posts: 980 betasigmadeltashag

    Avatar of betasigmadeltashag

    giving him the third year at the right price if that is what it takes. He takes 3 years 33-35 million and I you can live with that, any chance he moves to 3rd when polonico is done and the end of next year.
    And Cole is a must the only young arm of the four aces, along with Worley now. But you know he is going to want and deserves five years, and even a 6th if he pitches x number of innings ala the Lee deal. and if you can get him for 96 million that would be a no brainer. On the open market if he pitches like he did this year next some one may give him CC money 5-7 years at 22 million or more. That is why you can not let him hit the open market. Great job Dipsy very well writen and thoughtful piece.

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/biancbu01.shtml

    How about that guy? Ok well maybe thats too far.

    On a serious note. I like JMJ alot in left.
    Brown apparently not playing well or adapting to left.

    Couldnt you trade baseballs #1 prospect for a good fielding competant SS?

     
    • Posts: 5195 Lefty

      Avatar of Lefty

      What do you mean Brown is not playing well, who said! Why would you trade him? He’s going to be better than Babe Ruth.

       
  • Posts: 980 betasigmadeltashag

    Avatar of betasigmadeltashag

    I do not think Brown has much pull on the open market, he needs to either step up in his playing time when rosters expanded or the begining of next year because eight now he has shown to be able to perform offensivly or defensivly in the Majors. Especially if JMJ plays well throughout the playoffs and next year I think Dom will be expandable, but he will have to show he can play in the bigs. Would like to see Galvis play if the phillies lock up home field early.

     
    • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

      Agree some BETA. He should have been traded when his value was highest or he should be playing.
      Now his value is down. I dont see it going back up unless he shows it in the majors now.
      The time to trade him at max value is gone. Now almost have to play him and hope he pans out.

       
  • Posts: 0 jake

    Everybody talks about loyalty..jimmy has been a phil since day one and deserves to finish his career with them..its been 23 years since we had a great career phil, time for another…give him 30m for 3y…hamel he should be worth 85 for 5…madson say bye to…sorry folks cuts have to come from somewhere..heathe bell will be available for next year..

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

    Loyalty is Ruiz making 2.75 this year and 3.7 next year.

    He catches a staff like no one else does.
    Halladay bought him his own Cy Young award.

    He runs about as fast as I do. But those little legs turn and churn.

    He wants to win so badly.
    In 2015 Carlos has a buy out of $500,000.00

    500 K.

    The firstbaseman makes 50 times that in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 ,2016.

    When you are down 2 to lead off the ninth inning who works a count?
    Who tries to hit that solo shot to just come up a run short?

    But thats your hero. Ill take Carlos and Shane they are my heros.

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

    Thats loyalty son. Give me my nine 2.7 million dollar men vs your nine $25,000,000.00 men and I’ll win every time.
    Just so you know its not close either.
    Comparing them is not logical. They arent in the same league.

     
  • Posts: 220 The Dipsy

    Avatar of The Dipsy

    Loyalty. Hah. Thats a hot one. DBrown better start playing well. A bad end to the minors and another bad season is winter ball and next thing ya know, he’s a suspect and not a prospect. He’s already a little “heady”. I would trade him for a good young SS or a real good LFer. How about Brown for Werth, with the Nats giving us 50m in cash? The Nats would do it. Ha.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 2991 Chuck A.

    Avatar of Chuck A.

    Nice article, Dipsy. I absolutely am on board with Cole being the main priority and giving him 5 years. All the reasons you mentioned.

    And I agree also with NOT, under any circumstances, overpaying (whatever that really means since so may players are overpaid) for Madson. I love Madson and would love him back but not at some killer expense.

    Now as for Jimmy, where I differ is that I really think that 3 years guaranteed is the MINIMUM he will take. The Phillies can and in theory should start with 2+ but 1) He won’t take it, cause he’ll get 3 or 4 from somebody and 2) It will most likely piss him off so much that he’ll go elsewhere regardless. If the Phillies are really serious about J-Roll, I think you have to “overpay” a bit and go 3.

     
  • Posts: 2069 Brooks

    Avatar of Brooks

    Thanks for the right up Dipsy – these are huge issues coming up. It seemed at one time there was more creativity when coming up with these contracts.

    I think Cole gets market value for a #1 pitcher.
    Con: Has he shown it yet? Realistically his highest career win total is 15. I personally feel he is a potential CY award winner but, he has yet to demonstrate this to the league.

    I think if the Phils are smart, they might be able to talk Cole into a 2 year deal with huge incentives beyond. Say 2 for 25-30mil, based on performance as an option throw in the third for an additional 15 – 18. More incentives, if he does win a CY in either of those 2 years, make it a huge basket of cheer that would make him one of the highest paid pitchers in baseball. Beyond that if he has shown his worth – he will be 30 and we can toy with a 4 or 5 year renewell.

    Onto Madson – the Phils are in pretty good position here, make a firm offer of 2 years between 11 and 13 mil per. Once again, incentives can play a huge role.

    Lastly Jimmy – this is actually a really tough one. Please recall that his first 3 years as a Phillie his offensive production was even less potent than this year. In the last 3 years (since the MVP) his BA is just over .250, he does not steal as many bases, certainly does not hit triples like he used to and he has been injured in 3 of his last 4 years playing (the 1 healthy year, his average was .250). My point is our favorite son is in huge decline and there is no looking around it. Yes, he is still one of the premier defensive SS in the world but what does that warrant?

    I would go out on a limb and offer him the same money for a 2 year deal and put the incentives back in action (Team MVP, BA close to .300, MVP ranking….) with the option for a 3rd year. My thought is he would not even look at it.

    What I would like to see if there is anyway we could ink our nemisis, Jose Reyes who seems to be in his prime right now. Chance? Perchance?

     
    • Posts: 2991 Chuck A.

      Avatar of Chuck A.

      I really don’t relish the thought of having to “root’ for Jose Reyes. He’d be awesome though.

       
  • Posts: 0 TheDipsy

    Jose Reyes gets hurt, too. As for Jimmy – yeah, he’s not gonna like that offer. The Phils have shown that handing out longer contracts to older players has not worked for them. Ibanez, Polanco, Moyer, to name a recent few. Personally, if they sign Jimmy on his terms, like 5/55, and then watch him perpetually be injured or slumping, will make ME nuts. Saying goodbye to a beloved player is hard. Every great team has to do it at some point or other. @Brooks – Players REALLY don’t like incentives.

    The Dipsy

     
    • Posts: 2991 Chuck A.

      Avatar of Chuck A.

      Except that we are not at that point yet, in my opinion. It’s not like saying goodbye to a beloved player that’s much older and probably needs to be put out to pasture.

       
  • Posts: 0 moondog

    Very simple really. Lock up Hamels for 5 years. A pitcher had a MRI? Every pitcher in baseball has one. Lee was on the DL last year for Seattle.
    JRoll is declining before our eyes. His defense is already slipping and the DL stints are not going to end. Galvis can play. Remember Polanco’s deal is up after 2012. Spend money on a third baseman. Make Jimmy a fair offer but move on if someone overpays. Same with Madson.
    If you are serious about winning you are going to have bad contracts. Get over it. Yanks, RedSox, Giants , Phils have bad contracts. They eventually run out. The idea is not to be the Cubs or Mets and overpay and have no chance.

     
  • Posts: 0 TheDipsy

    “If you are serious about winning you are going to have bad contract”.

    Its true. “Better to have tried and signed a good player and missed than to never have tried at all”. Or, there is (from basketball): “You gotta shoot to score”.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Going back to Domonic Brown… for next season – in an interview a few weeks ago Jayson Stark painted the picture that just about all of the Phillies development team/scouts, etc.. said that Domonic Brown “IS NOT READY” to be called-up to the majors …….but at Charlie Manuel’s insistence that some offense be provided – Ruben Amaro decided to bring Brown up to the show …

    We saw glimpses of his tools and his potential – but we also saw just how RAW he really is …. among the reasons that the development people did not want to bring him up was that his predicted struggles would hurt two things: 1) his own confidence and 2) The fans view of him …

    ….. You don’t get to be named as one of the Top Prospects in baseball just by chance … he was ranked there because people in the know have seen the potential that Brown has ….When the Phillies drafted, signed, and started to develop Brown – they did so knowing that he’s more of an “athlete” than a polished “baseball player” …

    He’s still young, and has to figure out how to add consistency to his game

    ….
    That said… if you were going to want a SS – JUST for his defensive abilities, you wouldn’t trade for that player becasue you seemingly have that already in Galvis …. but if you want your lineup to be Vic, Polly, Utley, Howard, Pence, Mayberry, Ruiz, Galvis ….that sure is asking a ton out of your 6-7-8 hitters

    I’d much rather Rollins still be slotted in that 1-2 or 6 spot in the lineup … something that Galvis probably can’t do – and you have to plan for the realistic chance that Polly misses time again next season .. I can’t imagine a lineup without Rollins or Polly still able to generate much offense. I think that Rollins needs to get a 2 year + 3rd year option .. because he’s still that much better all around than what Galvis might give you

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    @ The Dipsy ….. I like that attitude… I think it was Pat Gillick that said something along the lines of “If you’re trying to hit home runs – there’s going to be a few times when you strikeout”

    meaning that for every Adam Eaton, Geoff Jenkins ….. they can land a Greg Dobbs, JC Romero, Scott Eyre, Brad Lidge, etc… and all the guys that helped win a WS

     
  • Posts: 161 therookie300

    Avatar of therookie300

    Cole is the obvious must sign of this trio, but I’m thinking Jimmy is a close number 2. They need his defense and yes they need offense. It’s hard to watch some of the at bats his backups have had this year. Defensively he is still much better than them. Besides Reyes I don’t think there is much else on the market that is comparable. I’d rather take a three year deal with Jimmy and deal with his injuries than a much longer and more expensive deal for Reyes and his injuries.

     
  • Avatar of The Original Chuck P

    With the exception of a few decent comments, this entire string of comments would have been better served as an abortion… seriously. Dipsy’s analysis is fine – not saying I agree with it but it’s fine. The problem that I have is that these comments are so short-sighted it makes my head hurt.

    First, Ryan Madson might not be a d is a tremendous set-up man. He’s dependable year after year and that means something. How many relievers do you know that are consistently good? Typically, you’ll see relievers that alternate from great to bad. Good closers are NOT a dime a dozen… neither are good set-up men. For every Ryan Madson, there are probably three dozen Danys Baez. Just ask Joakim Soria how hard it is to be a good reliever every year.

    Second, Cole Hamels is worth the extension but it’s probably too early to go throwing money at him. Let’s see how he finishes this season. That shoulder tightness looms large…

    Third, Jimmy Rollins is about two and a half decent seasons from being the all-time Phillies hits leader… I don’t see how you can let him walk. I get it, his skills have diminished somewhat but he is undoubtedly the catalyst of the greatest era of Phillies baseball history. Let that sink in… he’s been here since day one and it was his claim that we were “the team to beat” that probably marked the turning point of this franchise. So you bring Jimmy back because that’s what good teams do. They don’t nickle and dime franchise players – the give them the opportunity to stick around. It would be different if Jimmy was hitting .230 and making a ton of errors but he has had a pretty decent season, by his standards. Maybe his range is a little less expansive but he still plays awesome defense – every time I get to see what life is like without him (and very often what other teams are forced to deal with playing with a subpar defensive shortstop), I count my blessings that he’s still here. I’m not ready to see him in another uniform – I think that he has earned the right to be the all-time hits leader. He is a huge reason why we’ve been blessed with success.

     
    • Posts: 147 Don M

      Avatar of Don M

      I agree completely that you can’t let Rollins walk. I can’t grasp how/why people are comparing Rollins with Werth …… Werth was offered one of the biggest contracts in baseball history – the Nats knew there was ZERO chance they’d be outbid for his services, and there was no chance we’d turn down their offer

      Rollins, on the other hand, probably isn’t looking for a 7 year deal … has already banked millions, and can probably be had with a market-value contract …. What the going-rate for a Gold-Glove caliber SS remains to be seen …. All i’ve heard from Rollins is that he’s not taking a home-town discount … meaning that he’s not staying here for $4-5 M per season … but if the Phillies offer him $9 M per season and the Mariners offer him $11 …. I’d imagine he’d stay in Philly, etc … If the SF Giants decide that they want to offer him $12-14 M for 3-4 years, and that trumps the Phillies best offer, then maybe theres a chance he departs

      But for all the talk of Rollins declining, etc . . . . a Declining Jimmy Rollins is still a whole lot better than almost every other SS in the majors, and every option from the minors ….

      The Phillies just need to be sure to offer him a “fair” deal … and if that’s not enough for him than so be it, but I have a feeling that he’ll realize a good thing, and want to finish out his career in Philly …… as a noted baseball historian and follower of the game.. he knows just how much it means for a player (Ripken, Tony Gwynn, Jeter, etc) to play their entire career in one city .. now those guys are Hall of Fame player, and Rollins is not …. but he’ll go down as one of the great Phillies of all time

       
      • Posts: 2991 Chuck A.

        Avatar of Chuck A.

        I didn’t get the Werth comparison either when I first saw it. Two completely different individuals. Two completely different situations. Rollins is the “heart and soul” of this team, as someone earlier mentioned on one of the threads. He knows it and the Phillies know it. They probably will “overpay” to keep him (as long as it’s not crazy money) and that’s fine with me.

        The best part of OCP’s comment is “that’s what good teams do. they don’t nickle and dime franchise players – they give them the opportunity to stick around” Could not agree more with this statement!

        Werth wasn’t a franchise player either. Jimmy is.

         
      • Posts: 2991 Chuck A.

        Avatar of Chuck A.

        That’s why I said earlier that it might be an insult to Jimmy if the Phils were to offer anything less than 3 years. I get the 2+ thinking but that might be perceived as a “nickle and dime” approach.

         
  • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

    New Topic.
    You pay thm whatever they want.
    The big dontract is worth 12? Pay him 25.

    Cole hasnt pitched in a month? Give him 150 over 5 years.

    Afterall they earned it.

    Count those blessings.

    So sorry the Blue Jays and Astors keep having to put money in the deals.
    I made that up.
    The Astros didnt have to put money in deals (Pence, Oswaltt) to deal with the salaries.

    LOL
    Pay them all forever
    Its convienant and easy.

    Fifthly pay them more if you can.

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

    Considering OCP aborting himself.

    Wow
    Will the line be shorter at Chick-fila?

    Ill send funds or help however I can.

     
  • Posts: 147 Don M

    Avatar of Don M

    I would imagine they’d start Rollins offer at …. 2 years with a 3rd year option ….. and he’ll be seeking a 4 year deal …… and they’ll settle at 3 years

    He’s only 31-32 ….but he’s been playing for a long while, plus all the additional playoff games …. he played a lot of games on that Vet turf… lots of extra running with all the additional steals, at-bats, runs scored, etc.. that an aggressive leadoff man deals with .

    I said before i’d love to see him be our future 3b… since Galvis was labeled defensively-ready at SS …..and definitely “more ready” than anyone we’d have to come from the farm to play 3b ….. lets wait and see… the fact that they know they still have this 2-year-ish window with Halladay, Utley, Lee, Hamels, Vic … makes me believe that they’ll try to get the best available SS to play for them the next 2+ years …. and I don’t know that there a better option on the market than Jimmy Rollins

     
  • Avatar of The Original Chuck P

    If someone comes along and throws a 5-6 year Jayson Werth offer at Jimmy Rollins, I’d say that Ruben would do the right thing… wish him the best and move on… but that’s not what we’re talking about, is it? We’re talking about whether Jimmy Rollins is worth a reasonable extension – and by reasonable, I mean market value with no hometown discounts. I think that his contributions towards the rescue of this franchise are worth it… I believe that he’ll continue to give you solid defense and be a spark off the bench and in the lockerroom. Omar Vizquel is a guy that played shortstop well into his late 30′s – Jimmy can still play shortstop. It’s a shame that his hamstring acted up because he was quietly putting together a solid season…

     
  • Posts: 220 The Dipsy

    Avatar of The Dipsy

    Chuck P – You don’t pay guys based on what they did in the past. Thats what gets GMs into trouble.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Avatar of The Original Chuck P

    That’s certainly the rule, Dip but Rollins would classify as an exception to that rule. He’s within 400 hits of becoming the all-time hits leader… He deserves an offer – a reasonable offer. Part of the reason I’m ok with it is because theres not going to be anything else on he market and the other part is that he has been such a huge part of this run. We are making money hand over foot- a three or four year deal that pays Rollins market value is not going to cripple this franchise. A Werth deal might… That’s the difference here. I say it’s worse to pay a player for what he hasn’t done… Werth was never the go to guy but the Nats paid him like one. Rollins is a decent shortstop… Top 5 in the NL… with a few good years left.

     
  • Posts: 220 The Dipsy

    Avatar of The Dipsy

    Chuck, I’m all for giving JRo a reasonable offer. You don’t think 2/22 Opt 3 is reasonable? Surely Jimmy can look in the mirror and admit he’s injury prone or look at his stats and know that he’s not Derek Jeter?

    The Dipsy

     
 
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