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Dr. Strangeglove: On a Plan for Domonic Brown

Posted by Michael Baumann, Fri, October 14, 2011 03:38 PM | Comments: 65
Analysis, Dr. Strangeglove, Posts

I wanted to say how nice it’s been to get along with the readership over the past few weeks, a state of affairs I’d chalk up to my being neither informative nor persuasive since the first week in September or so. Anyway, I wanted to get that out there, because I’m back to my old ways. I went into this offseason with almost no expectations. This offseason, my wish was really more that the Phillies do nothing rather than do something. I was prepared to make peace with whatever the Phillies did this offseason, provided the following things happened:

  1. The Phillies don’t offer arbitration to Raul Ibanez.
  2. The Phillies don’t sign any free agent reliever (including Brad Lidge and Ryan Madson) to any contract with a total value of more than $5 million.
  3. The Phillies commit to getting Domonic Brown 400 or more major league plate appearances in 2012, preferably as the every day left fielder, but at least in some sort of platoon arrangement with John Mayberry.

Then Ruben Amaro announced that the Phillies wanted to get Brown a full season at AAA before bringing him up to the majors. I was absolutely mystified by this decision, though, judging by Ruben Amaro’s bizarre insistence on giving anyone but Brown a chance to play at the major league level in 2011, I can’t say I was surprised. Ever since he refused to include Brown in any sort of trade for Cliff Lee or Roy Halladay back in 2009, Amaro has, like Hamlet tormenting Claudius, seemed to take some sort of perverse pleasure in treating the Phillies’ top hitting prospect since Chase Utley like a yo-yo, tossing and spinning, and otherwise screwing with Brown for no reason other than he can.

Maybe there’s some sort of plan for Brown that the public is not privy to, and this is part of it. Maybe he’s being kept in the minors because there’s a flaw in his game that the Phillies are aware of but has escaped the eye of the extremely astute talent evaluators at ESPN and Baseball America. If that’s the case, maybe he’s being hidden so as not to harm his trade value. But I find that hard to believe.

I think I actually want this more than 400 plate appearances for the Domonator: to know what, exactly, that plan is.

Here’s are some of the arguments for keeping Brown in the minors, or at least the best ones I’ve heard:

  • He’s a prospect, and therefore an unknown quantity.
  • He’s bad defensively and doesn’t hustle.
  • The Phillies can’t afford to waste at-bats on someone who might not produce.
  • He’s been given a chance already and washed out.

Let’s unpack those one-by-one:

He’s a prospect, and therefore an unknown quantity.

Yes. I grant you this. But here’s what I do know about Brown: he’s hit .294/.375/.459 in 2,000 minor league plate appearances, including .303/.374/.546 in 433 AA plate appearances and .298/.390/.453 in 292 AAA plate appearances. Certainly, he hasn’t proven that he can hit major league pitching at these rates, but the logic of using that as a justification for sending him back down to AAA escapes me–regardless of what you think of Brown, how is he going to prove he can hit major league pitching when he only ever faces minor league pitching?

Brown is not a known quantity, for sure, but it’s best to consider prospects in terms of likelihood. It’s eminently possible that Brown, given the right environment, could grow into a Ken Griffey Jr. clone. In moments where I’ve been blinded by my own exuberance, I’ve said as much, but while Brown turning into Griffey is possible, it’s certainly not likely. It’s also possible that he could turn into the next Billy Ashley, but it’s not necessarily likely.

Let’s turn to what the folks at Baseball America say about him: going into 2010, he was their No. 15 prospect. Here’s the complete list of other outfielders in the top 20: Jason Heyward, Mike Stanton, Desmond Jennings, and Logan Morrison, all of whom have turned out to be perfectly acceptable major leaguers, given the chance. So while Brown isn’t a sure thing by any stretch of the imagination, the minor league stats suggest that he’s ready, and people who tend to rate good major league players highly as prospects seem to think well of Brown. Doesn’t that at least suggest he merits a chance?

He’s bad defensively, and doesn’t hustle.

Go ahead, write him off because he didn’t go full-tilt after a fly ball once. Certainly no team has ever prospered in spite of indifferent defense from its left fielder. Certainly not Manny Ramirez‘s Cleveland Indians, Boston Red Sox, or Los Angeles Dodgers teams, or Ted Williams’ Red Sox teams of the 1940s and 1950s. Or the 2008 Phillies, with Pat Burrell. Or even the mid-90s Braves, with Ryan Klesko. Or the 1970s and 1980s Phillies, with Greg Luzinski.

And Brown is not a nutcase like Ramirez, or a grouch like Williams, or even a klutz or a clod like Burrell, Klesko, and Luzinski. He’s a young enough player that he can still be taught to play defense, and a good enough athlete to get by passably if he doesn’t.

And that’s even assuming he’s a bad fielder: FanGraphs had him at -7 fielding runs in 451 innings in 2011, which is pretty bad. But UZR, the fielding statistic FanGraphs uses in WAR, takes a full season to stabilize, sometimes more. In terms of small samples, 451 innings is the blink of an eye when judging advanced fielding metrics, particularly for an outfielder. But as you’ll see, it’s tough to believe the argument that Brown’s defense kept him out of the lineup in 2011.

The Phillies can’t afford to waste at-bats on someone who might not produce

This is just empirically untrue. In 2011, the Phillies paid $11.5 million to literally the worst defensive player in the National League so he could post a .289 OBP in a corner outfield position. The Phillies gave $1.6 million to a player so broken-down he could barely run the bases, and sent him to the plate 118 times, where he posted a .266 wOBA. The Phillies gave 234 plate appearances to a player with a .540 OPS, who had only 10 extra-base hits in those 234 times to the plate. The Phillies are either absurdly stupid or pathologically unconcerned with their offensive production, because that’s the only explanation for the team with the second-highest payroll in baseball to give 927 plate appearances to Ross Gload, Raul Ibanez, and Michael Martinez.

Phillies management can’t be that oblivious, because they won 102 games in 2011, no small feat even before considering that the Phillies, by playing Gload, Ibanez, and Martinez, suffered the equivalent of a season and a third’s worth of Eric Bruntlett in their lineup. So if there’s any logic whatsoever to the burial of Domonic Brown, the alternative must be true: the Phillies don’t care if their left fielder doesn’t hit.

Brown, in 2011, posted a .245/.333/.391 line in 210 plate appearances. His OBP was 44 points higher than Ibanez’s. His OPS was 122 points higher than Ross Gload’s. Why did they get the playing time? Oh, yeah, and Domonic Brown was 23 years old for most of the season–it stands to reason that a 23-year-old would get better with more repetition, while Ibanez (39), Gload (35), and Martinez (29), will never be better than what they are now.

This is the most maddening part of the Domonic Brown Saga for me–people who want him buried in favor of Ibanez think that playing Brown would have hurt the team. This is almost certainly not true. Even if Brown never improves one iota from the player he is today, he was still better in 2011 than Ibanez was. The relationship between developing for the future and playing to win in the present does not need to be adversarial, and would not have been, in this case.

He’s been given a chance already and washed out

I don’t want people who are willing to write off a player after 280 intermittent major-league plate appearances (all but one before the player’s 24th birthday, and many of them marred, by the way, by an injury that can sap a player’s power for a year) to be anywhere near controlling my favorite team. If you’re willing to write off Brown now, consider the following: Roy Halladay, aged 23, through 231 major-league innings, was 13-14 with a 5.77 ERA and a WHIP of 1.71. Write him off. Mike Schmidt, aged 23, through his first full major-league season, had a .197 career batting average and a .690 OPS. Write him off too.

How can you possibly know anything about Domonic Brown as a major-league player after 280 plate appearances, most of which came as a pinch-hitter after rotting on the bench for days? Here’s all that we know, for certain: Brown has the skills to be called one of the top prospects in the minor leagues, and in limited major-league duty, he was slightly better than Raul Ibanez, who got 575 plate appearances from the Phillies in 2011.

That warrants an extended look and a long leash in the major leagues in 2012, and unless the Phillies have some  personnel move up their sleeve, or Brown has some issue they’re not telling us about, there’s no logical reason–none whatsoever–not to give that to him. So what’s the plan?

 
 
  • Posts: 0 Mark

    I never understand the bashing of Brown by Phillies’ fans. Ibanez was no better (most likely worse) as a hitter or fielder. Some love to point to Mayberry as someone clearly superior to Brown, but that ignores the rather sizable age difference and the fact that this was the first year Mayberry came around as a somewhat complete hitter.

    Bottom line is Brown has nothing left to prove in the minors as a hitter. AAA is no better than AA from a competitive standpoint. Maybe they want him to get more comfortable playing left fied? But they put up w/ Ibanez’s adventures out there.

     
    • Posts: 0 Dave Lerch

      Brown can’t play at the major league level. He has demonstrated that by putting up abysmal offensive numbers and playing less than average in the field. I really couldn’t care less what he ‘s done at Lehigh Valley. That doesn’t correlate to success at the Major League level. He has been given the chance to win a starting position and failed. Mayberry on the other hand has produced. We know he can play multiple positions in the outfield. We know he can play first base and we may need him to next year depending on whether Howard makes it back in time. We have seen Mayberry hit for power, drive in runs and play good defense with as much opportunity as Brown got. The bottom line is, Mayberry has produced and is as physically gifted as Brown,but has baseball skills,which Brown has not demonstrated and likely won’t. I wouldn’t count on Brown next year and I would like to see him traded for offensive help or bullpen help while he is still considered a commodity.

       
      • Posts: 0 John

        Did you skip over the part about sample sizes? Just because a 23 year old top prospect doesn’t produce in 280 ABs doesn’t mean he sucks. Just because a 27 year old career-minor-leaguer-to-this-point rakes in 270 ABs doesn’t mean he’s the next Ken Griffey.

        It takes time to adjust from hitting off Eddie Bonine to hitting off Tim Lincecum. Sometimes 280 is enough. Most times it isn’t. Especially when those 280 are mostly cold and off the bench. If Brown is starting in AAA, he’s probably going to be our left fielder by July anyway.

         
      • Posts: 566 Brian Sr. of CO

        Fact of the matter is, JMJ has produced, Dom Brown has not. Not other way around it. If JMJ has produced, and earned playing time all, why send JMJ back to the minors to bring up a supposed great PROSPECT who has yet to produce anything in the Majors. They had him up playing the SAME amount as JMJ in RF, and JMJ had better numbers.

         
      • Posts: 0 Ed

        BINGO … 100% correct! Thank you Dave. During the hunt for Hunter I was hoping that Brown would be included in any deal. I’m absolutely sure, and it’s sad to say, that Dom Brown will never be a productive major league player. It seems that he’s a very nice young man, so it pains me to reach these conclusions.

         
    • Posts: 0 Nathan

      The logical option is to get rid of ibanez and switch off mayberry and brown. But give Mayberry more at bats and playing time to begin with since his fielding and hitting was clearly better than browns. Im not saying brown is washed up but he still has to prove he has it in the majors. Also anyone like Bastardo as the closer this year?

       
  • Posts: 0 Tyler Wilson

    Thank God someone in Phillies Nation gets it. I have repeatedly made my case for Brown to play through different blogs and Phillies facebook pages, only for people to write him off right away because he didn’t just walk into the league and blow up major league pitching. No one can get better if they are thrown around like a rag doll, and that’s just the case with Brown. He would start a game here and a game there, and sit for 2 weeks at a time. How does that benefit him? Throw him out there and put him in the 7th or 8th hole in the lineup and slowly let him develop. He will get his timing down and become a true major leaguer.

     
  • Posts: 0 nuke

    lets unravel this obsession you have with dom brown. nobody asked him to be ken griffey, we asked that he give his all when on the field. it took john mayberry jr. a trip back down to the minors and an open mind to better himself. he needs to drop the prima donna attitude and be willing to learn from people who have “been there”. and finally, where do you get off “slamming” raul ibanez. his second half numbers were better than adequate and he made many outstanding defensive plays in the outfield. not bad for a 39 year old. i do agree the phils need to become younger, but don’t disrespect those people on the field. time to suck it up and move on …

     
  • Posts: 0 bacardipr05

    I think it could be they found a flaw in his game and would rather him work it out at AAA then at the MLB level. For one if this “flaw” is exposed at the MLB level it will hurt his trade value. None of here are professional scouts( i dont think) or have any exp in evaluating professionally baseball talent . RAJ didnt want to call him up in the 1st place for a reason. When he did Brown showed he had some defensive flaws and offensive problems. Although at times he flashed some brilliance with both. He also appears to be slightly sleepy up there. Also as a player who didnt start off with baseball he may need to develop more baseball instincts. I believe he should start of next year in AAA and take it from there.

     
    • Posts: 566 Brian Sr. of CO

      Agreed! More than likely his lack of hustle (FAR more often than not going “full-tilt” to a fly ball. Think basepaths? Also his elongated swing. He needs to find a faster, more compact swing (which will be difficult for someone of his size). It is possible to. Lets think, maybe John Mayberry. John Mayberry was given the SAME, if not LESS opportunities as the savior Dom Brown, and he actually earned his playing time. NO ONE expects Dom Brown to be “ken Griffey” or even Heyward in his first season, but if he is supposed to be the best hitting prospect since Chase Utley, it would be great if he could actually, you know…Hit the ball.

       
  • Posts: 0 Brett

    All of the arguments aside you can’t dismiss the fact that John Mayberry Jr. has much better numbers than Brown in the 2011 season. Mayberry is a better fielder and most importantly comes from a baseball family. Domonic Brown did not start playing baseball until he was 17 years old which tells me that he lacks the core fundamentals that other players would gain by playing baseball their whole lives, especially an individual like Mayberry Jr. whom grew up on a baseball diamond. This is why Domonic Brown lacks hustle and the ability to make routine plays in the field. Not to mention the simple fact that he refused to listen to his hitting coaches when they tried to adjust his swing. Mayberry on the other hand took his hitting coaches very seriously and altered his stance to have more of a crouch in it so he could go down and drive the curve balls that were keeping him in the minors. I’m sorry but the Domonic Brown love needs to end.

     
    • Posts: 0 Kyle

      I think you made a really good point about Brown not playing baseball from a young age. Most of the guys that hustle on a baseball diamond do it because that’s what they’ve always done. It’s how they were taught to play the game, so that’s what they do. I don’t think we should give up on Brown, but we certainly shouldn’t be playing him over Mayberry. If Mayberry struggles next year, sure, give Brown a shot. But until then, he was given an opportunity to compete with Mayberry and lost.

       
  • Posts: 0 the ghost of luis aguayo

    This is Brown’s time. He is still young enough to make mistakes and learn from them, but he is no longer some 20 year old prospect who needs seasoning. Do the Phillies have a rule that you have to be over 30 to play every day? He will be cheap, too. I don’t know what good sending him back to triple A will do, especially since there is no one (Ibanez) blocking his way to playing time. Put Mayberry at first to cover for Howard while he mends, and let Mayberry prove that 2011 wasn’t a fluke. Brown was hyped so much, now it seems like (in some perverse way) the Phillies want him to fail. Don’t screw Brown up. The Philly pipeline isn’t exactly clogged with hitting prospects. If he really does stink, at least give him the chance to prove it.

     
  • Posts: 0 nuke

    and by the way – - i agree with the lidge comment, but if you think you’re gonna get a quality closer for under 5 mill – - – you need to see a head doctor immediately !!!

     
  • Posts: 0 Mark

    Here we go w/ the Mayberry worshippers. I love what Mayberry did this year, but he’s fours years older than Brown! Let’s give Brown a little time to develop. It’s amazing the bashing coming from Phillie fans. This is supposed to be their number one prospect. You’d think fans would want to see him succeed.

    And here’s a hint for those trashing Brown while defending Ibanez – Brown was a better hitter than Ibanez this year! Do you really tihnk Brown won’t progress at all??? And how is it possible to trash Brown’s defense while defending Ibanez’s???? Is that supposed to be a joke?

     
    • Posts: 0 Brett

      I was not bashing Brown simply pointing out why the arguments in this article are raised. And if you want to compare Brown to Ibanez defensively Brown commited 4 errors in 52 games while Ibanez only committed 1 error in 134 games. Please, look up the stats before you open your mouth.

       
      • Posts: 0 EricL

        “Errors” is likely the single worst metric to use when evaluating defensive prowess.

         
      • Posts: 566 Brian Sr. of CO

        What is the best Metric? Using errors by itself does not provide a good analysis, however taking errors, total chances and put outs all together is a pretty good “metric” over all.

         
      • Posts: 0 Mark

        Take a look at UZR or any number of available defensive rankings. Ibanez was one of the worst.

         
  • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

    Brown plays every game next year for the Phillies in left.
    I dont care what he hits. I may bitch at some fielding. But I trust he will greatly improve that.

    This HAS to happen as he is one of few guys on the roster who doesnt rub geritol on his limbs nightly.

     
  • Posts: 566 Brian Sr. of CO

    The whole point of Brown being in AAA is to give him “a little time to develop”. He needs to shorten his swing, and hustle more in all aspects of the game, not just fielding, but also running the basepaths. I honestly do not understand why we would put Brown in LF regardless of what he does, if Mayberry has already had, and actually earned some playing time. It seems logical, to put Mayberry in LF where he has already produced, and earned some playing time for 2012, and give Brown the “time to develop” in LF (which is a new position for him) and maybe put Brown in LF later in the season if Mayberry regresses (ala Heyward), or in 2013 as the every day LF. Not to mention, How long do we have Pence? isnt he gone (unless they re-sign him) after the 2012 season? It seems we will have an opening in RF in the coming years, and isnt Brown’s original position RF? No one disagree’s he needs time to develop. Thats all people want from him, is to develop. Not to mention, don’t sign any free agents for more than $5 Mil? LOL. Talk about joke. Think about it. Not going to happen! Even if it is not Madson, they will need to sign a quality arm for the back end of the bullpen which will cost more than $5 Mil.

     
    • Posts: 5 byosti

      Out of pure curiosity, would you rather have Mayberry then going forward over Jason Heyward(if we had him)?

       
      • Posts: 566 Brian Sr. of CO

        Interesting question, considering Heyward was good in his first season and horrible in his second, not to mention, you summed it up perfectly, “if we had him” which we do not, so I would rather live in reality. Dom Brown, or Mayberry. Mayberry has produced at the ML level, Dom Brown needs to work things out before he will produce. It seems to me start Mayberry in LF, and Brown should be ready if Pence is not re-signed, to play in RF when Pence is gone.

         
  • Posts: 30 Gavin

    Maybe he didn’t do great this year, but he didn’t do that bad. And everyone who is saying Mayberry did better, it’s true. But it makes no sense. This article isn’t about Mayberry, or if he’s better than Brown. It’s about why he isn’t as bad as everyone is saying. And if you don’t agree, or don’t trust in him. Than not say Mayberry is better, but say why Brown isn’t good. By the way, Mayberry is much older, and I think Brown will be much better when he’s at Mayberry’s age.

     
  • Posts: 1374 Pat Gallen

    Here are my thoughts on all things:

    Brown deserves an opportunity to play every day in the major leagues. Just because he had some troubles, again, that was over a very short period of time. And he showed great plate discipline, which is something I dont think can be taught. He has a keen eye, enough to take walks. Give him 550 ABs through a full season, then make a judgment. It’s really the only way. You cant judge a guy on 1/3 of a season.

    Mayberry, I think, is sprouting late and can be a viable 25 HR, 85 RBI, .260 hitter. And he’ll give you excellent defense. Right there, he’s much, much better than Raul Ibanez ever was. Unfortunately, there isn’t room for both, so there has to be a concerted effort to get them both as many at bats as possible.

    Don’t give up on Dom.

     
  • Posts: 5 byosti

    Wasn’t really stated in the article but Brown showed he can improve in his short major-league stints in 2010 and 2011. Dropped his strikeout rate by OVER HALF while increasing his walk-rate. And people tend to forget hamate bone injuries can linger, hurting a player’s power for a year.

     
  • Posts: 0 George

    Brown is a very good prospect, but clearly isn’t ready; particularly starting in a new position. Keeping him on the bench in 2010 slowed his development, his hand injury slowed it, too. His stats seem to suffer when he’s first sent down, so he probably has confidence issues. Those could be made even worse if he’s a work in progress in the majors.

    As far as not listening to his coaches, that’s just not true. He’s tried different hand positions they’ve suggested, and they plain didn’t work.

    From the few times I’ve seen Brown, he obviously has the talent, and I think it’s wise that the Phils are being cautious with him. Better he not play in the majors until his swing and his outfield routes are more consistent, and his confidence is up.

     
  • Posts: 0 BART SHART

    Is Dom Brown talented? Answer: yes. Is Dom Brown easily coached? Answer: No.
    Ruben sent a message directly to Dom Brown in his interview, or Ruben was just being stupid. Dom Brown has important stuff to learn and he is resisting. Either he becomes malleable as a student of the game or his game does not rise to the demands of the major leagues. Dom Brown needs to learn this. He is not a prima donna, not yet anyway.

     
  • Posts: 1374 Pat Gallen

    See, I think that Brown can learn on the fly. He might not be easily coachable, but you’ve got to give him a chance to go through the rigors of baseball everyday. There is a learning experience in that and he hasn’t yet gotten it. At one point, he hit .330 in Triple-A (or thereabouts), so I think its time he got a shot at the major league level. He’ll have plenty of time in January, Feb, March to work on his routes and tighten up his swing.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    lets get nuts….
    Beltran, Carlos … LF, batting 3rd … two year deal, $16 M ….

    let Mayberry spell Howard at 1b often vs LHP…and fill in for everyone else in the OF to keep them fresh-to-death..

     
  • Posts: 1374 Pat Gallen

    Don, you can’t platoon Howard. I get that maybe he should be, but at $25 million hes gotta be out there no matter what. Maybe when Howard first comes back to get him acclimated to playing on the foot, but in this case, no.

    I’m not normally for giving people a break if they aren’t producing, but not at $25 million. He’s gotta play when healthy.

     
    • Posts: 0 EricL

      Why must he play “no matter what?” That’s absurd. What if he turns into Adam Dunn in a few years (.064/.235/.074 v LHP)? Can you sit him then? The best team should be on the field. If you’re putting inferior players on the field merely because you pay them a lot you’re going to lose more games than you need to. There are no sacred cows.

      If you’re insisting that very highly paid players must be played despite their lack of production Barry Zito should have been at the top of SF’s rotation and Aaron Rowand should have been starting in center every day. Would that have made SF a better club?

       
      • Posts: 1374 Pat Gallen

        Of course if he’s hitting zero against lefty pitching you have to sit him. We aren’t at a critical level yet. To this organization, Ryan Howard is a sacred cow, at least for the first few years of this upcoming contract. That’s just the way they roll. You saw how they held on with Raul. Is it always going to be the right move? No, but he’s going to pretty much play if healthy, no matter what. He hit .224 vs. LHP with little power, although he was never really healthy. Maybe if he can fine tune his swing, hit a few more homers against lefties and raise his average a bit, then it should be OK.

         
  • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

    Beltran?

    I bet if you offered enough Julio Franco would come out of retirement and play left.

     
  • Posts: 0 BART SHART

    Can’t platoon Howard? That is MOST unfortunate thinking. If the dude cannot hit lefties, and he cannot, And Mayberry rakes lefties, then Howard is hurting the team. IT IS A DAMN MISTAKE TO BOW TO TRADITION. HOWARD CAN NOT HIT LEFTIES SO HE SHOULD NOT FACE THEM. IT IS A FOOL’S ECONOMY TO PUT HIM OUT THERE TO FAIL. HE HURTS THE TEAM AND OUR CHANCES.

    PHILLIES NEED TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX FOR A CHANGE……THE BATTERS BOX.

     
  • Posts: 1374 Pat Gallen

    It’s not tradition Bart. It’s the fact that you cant have a platoon player making $25 million. You have to let him hit. Or try. You paid him to do it, or try, so he’s gotta try.

     
    • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

      The exact thinking that got the Phillies beat the last 2 years.

      The Giants won a WS title by sitting thier high priced under achieving talent ( Zito, Rowand).
      I guess SF is a different city and you cant platoon in Philly or bench an over paid superstar?

      If so we are doomed to becoming the Cubs or Mets.

      You play the players that help or allow you to win a world series PERIOD.

      Now maybe it will never happen in this town. And thats a shame.
      And makes it very hard to win.

       
    • Posts: 0 Jeff Dowder

      It seems like a lot of people here owe Keith Law an apology. The Howard contract could end up being one of the worst in baseball.

       
  • Posts: 0 TheDipsy

    I think you should treat Brown just like any other player. Let him go to spring training and earn a position. If he’s not ready, let him go to the minors until he is. And if he’s never ready, you missed out on using him as a major trade chip. Given where the Phils are, I wouldn’t be disappointed if they traded Brown in the right deal. Hey, this pitching won’t be here forever and its “now” time. But to say that Brown is spending the whole year in the minors presupposes that RAJ can see into the future. Its just a stupid thing to say. Mayberry is definitely the better player now, though.

    The Dipsy

     
  • In Freddie Freeman’s first 150 AB’s as a major leaguer, he was hitting below the mendoza line… Mike Stanton struggled mightily in 2010 before completely obliterating major league pitching this season. Jason Heyward, on the other hand, did great his rookie season but flamed out big time this year. It’s a game of adjustments – some players need some time to adjust at the onset and others need to adjust later once they find out that major league pitchers are good at finding weaknesses… Dom Brown was never given an opportunity to make his adjustments. He was never given time to catch up with the speed of the game at this level. It’s a shame but I think they royally messed this one up. I’m still in the pro-Brown camp (I think he can be a good one) but it absolutely has to start with the fan base being willing to give him some time. The crazy thing is that he hit .333 in May, struggled mightily in June but turned it around in July, hitting .296… and then they sent him down. It made no sense to me then and it makes no sense to me now.

    I’m not saying that he has earned anything over Mayberry… JMJ has earned a shot to play… I just don’t feel like Brown has done enough to be labeled a bust. I think he deserves a legitimate shot – without having to look in the mirror to see when so and so is coming off the DL… give him the keys to the ride.

     
  • Posts: 0 George

    How does one get “he’s difficult to coach” from “He has valuable things to learn?” Doesn’t every prospect have valuable things to learn?

    Dom Brown is still young. He didn’t begin concentrating on baseball until he was 17. That gives him a whopping 6 years to have figured everything out. No wonder he still has things to learn. One more year at AAA won’t hurt him, and will probably help.

     
  • Curious… what do you make of this comment by RAJ (regarding Dom), “His life has changed over the last several years for a variety of reasons as far as our needs at the big league level.”

    Is he insinuating that Dom has lost his desire or his edge? I wish that he would have elaborated on that comment… it would be nice to know what he’s talking about.

     
  • Posts: 0 Dr. Dave

    Come spring time, Mayberry will be at 1B. Brown will start as the LFer unless Ruben brings in somebody else.

    Where they need to upgrade is at 3B. It was OK to play a weaker power guy at 3B when Utley was hitting like a HOF 2Bman. Now we need that upgrade.

     
  • Posts: 0 BoilerUp

    It seems to me that the fan base in Philadelphia has a “trip wire” of sorts for newer players.
    Once a new player fails to take a good route to a fly ball, or gets picked off of first base, or struggles for a week at the plate, he is branded as “lazy”, “clumsy”, and as a player who sucks.
    It’s easy to have that label hung on you in Philly, but it’s EXTREMELY difficult to shed that image, no matter how well that player might do subsequent to the perceived gaffe(s).
    Dom Brown is the epitome of that player. Yes, he struggled defensively at times (But have you seen how awkward and imprecise Pence can be in RF? He often takes terible routes, and misses the cutoff man. But his is a cult of personality. He was beloved before he ever stepped foot in the batters box as a Phillie. He’s the other side of the coin: “He who can do no wrong”. And it’s just as difficult to shed that image in Philly).
    But back to Dom Brown: He showed remarkable disclipline at the plate. He saw more pitches per plate appearance than anyone on the team while he was up. Isn’t that what people were clamoring for in the playoffs? “Work the count!!”. I saw that many times on PN. Well, Brown did just that.
    A young player who already possesses the ability and courage to go deep into the count is a rarity, indeed. If Amaro screws this kid up, he’ll rob this franchise of the chance to see a truly special and gifted player develop into a perennial star.
    Mayberry should spell Howard at 1B in 2012. Brown should get a shot in LF. I have a feeling that Amaro is going to bring in Grady Sizemore, but Brown has more upside, and is healthier.
    FREE DOM BROWN!!!

     
  • Posts: 2118 Lefty

    I agree that Dominic Brown goes through the normal ups and downs that young players almost always do. He could be a better fielder, hitter, he could do a lot of things better, but he’s young and has to go through the learning curve, just like the examples given in the post.

    The only thing certain about Dominic Brown is that he’s managed to make some enemies within this organization. Charlie? Ruben? GG? The secretaries on the third floor? We probably will never know what he’s said or done, or who he rubbed the wrong way, but for RAJ to say that he needs an entire year in AAA in 2012?, – that he’s basically not even going to get a chance in ST?, something’s seriously wrong.

    Maybe he has some “Tony Plush” (Nyjer Morgan’s alter ego) in him, I can only guess. What I know is that teams that give up on talented young guys tend to end up regretting it at some point. Anyone think the Nationals don’t regret giving away Morgan for next to nothing? And Brown may have twice his upside.

     
  • Posts: 0 BART SHART

    Having Howard consistently go against lefties and bat less than .200 with two homers for the year is ghastly and foolish no matter how terrible a contract he has signed. He stinks against lefties and Mayberry is much much better.– against lefties. That kind of stupidity is reason enough to give up on the Phillies…….It is saying ” I screwed up by signing him for so long for all this money so I will play him against lefties even though he stinks and he greatly reduces our chance of winning the game.” THAT IS DUMB !!!!!.

    Classic example of two wrongs (Howards contract and his inability to hit lefties) no makeing a “RIGHT” namely winning ballgames by putting the best available team on the field.

     
  • Posts: 0 BART SHART

    Lefty, you make excellent points about Dom Brown. He must have pissed off a number of “Decision Makers” on this team and may pay a very dear and expensive price.

     
    • Posts: 2118 Lefty

      Thanks Bart, My fear is that, as usual, we the fans will end up paying the price.

      I heard Joe Buck the other night talking about how Miguel Cabrera on the Tigers has been in the bigs since he was 20. Now there’s a guy who has made plenty of youthful mistakes off the field, a guy who’s first year had an OPS only in the mid 700′s, but is now consistently over 1.000. But the fans of Detroit have been watching him perform his magic for 8 years now. It’s the difference of an organization that is willing to take a few lumps to put a good product on the field.

      And now they’re wasting fruitful years with DBrown, just like they did with Utley and Howard.

       
  • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

    He hit .224 vs lefties.
    The slugging pct of .347 though is an issue.
    If you hit him 4th vs lefties.

     
  • Posts: 0 bacardipr05

    Well as the Phillies top prospect he will either get his chance or get traded this will happen soon enough. It will be foolish of the Phils to trade him unless Mayberry becomes the next Werth or there is a glaring need.

     
  • Posts: 0 Devin

    Am I the only one who noticed that Ibanez hit 20 HRs and had 84 RBIs (second only to Howard) this year?

     
    • Posts: 0 Devin

      So basically, what i’m saying is, Raul hit the 2nd most HRs on the team and had the 2nd most RBIs on the team, but he’s the problem offensively? I certainly don’t consider our 2nd most productive hitter (Based on RBI and HRs) as being “wasted ABs” sure he had stretches where he looked downright awful, but if you bother to look at the numbers the fact that he’s second behind only Ryan Howard in HRs and RBIs suggests to me that he managed to get it done. Now his defense is a whole other story, i’ll give you he’s awful in the field.

       
    • Posts: 0 Devin

      Oh and for those who want to argue BA, he only hit .008 lower than Ryan Howard.

       
    • Posts: 566 Brian Sr. of CO

      Did you also notice, he is only 1 of 2 active players in MLB to hit at least 30 double for 10 straight seasons?

       
  • Posts: 0 brooks

    Rube had to speak out of turn when he intimated that DB will start and stay in AAA all year, that is disregarding any circumstance, you cannot make those kinds of predictions.

    But, I will say that during the early course of this past season, while in the bigs DB had a LOT of chances to prove he belonged. A ton of chances to endear himself to the fan base and his management and he consistently came up short. The table was set time and time and time again with runners on base and time after time he came up weak. I have always felt that this kid has all the tools to be something special and perhaps there might be somthing still. But after watching this ‘sure thing’ fizzle like he did, I have learned not to put that much hope in any prospect. That includes Glavis or anyone else in the minors, until they get their chance in the bigs, like Dom did. I dont think that Cholly had a short leash with Dom, as a matter of fact, it was at a time when our RF and CF (injuries and the rbi drought from Raul) need for someone to step up was great.

    The point is, he does need time to polish, regenerate or whatever it takes and he does need another chance to prove himself. Question for all though – If DB had done as well as Junior showed us (late in the season) do you think that DB would have received even more playing time than Jr did? (Especially in the NLDS)

     
  • Posts: 0 TheDipsy

    Why don’t we look at like this for a second:

    If you trade Dom Brown in a package in the offseason you KNOW that you will get a good player/s coming back.

    If you keep Dom Brown in the system than you MIGHT have a player that will turn into a good player.

    Remember when you were a kid and there was that 11 year old girl who you swore was gonna be a fox and then three years later she had bow legs and crooked teeth? And was smoking cigarettes!

    Time….the avenger.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 Bob Myers

    My hunch is that Dominic Brown has offended some of the powers that be, and I tend to trust them in making the right assessment. Brown might not be very teachable, and coaches can’t tolerate that in a young upstart. He might just have persistent flaws that need the consistency of an entire season in the minors.

    We’re going to be without Howard for a large part of next year. Utley’s legs won’t allow him to hit for power. Rollins may be gone. You’ve got to expect Victorino to not have as great a year as he had this year. Same with Worley, who I think we ought to consider trading for some power bat. Who played this year that we can honestly expect to have a break out year in 2012? I think 2012 is going to be a very difficult year. We still have three, maybe four aces, but we need help with the bats. The idea that it’s going to be won by changing the current player’s approach is a pipe dream and the management knows this. We have to change up the personnel, but not be knee jerk about it.

    Mayberry will be average or above at 1st and then Howard comes back and has to scratch and crawl to get near as good as he was this year. Don’t expect him to hit lefties better next year after losing so much leg strength.

    Brace yourself. 2012 will be tough. Lots of drama, and I think some very tough times in a division that is improving…..

     
  • Posts: 45 JakeyJ

    I tend to agree with those wanting to give both Mayberry and Brown extended Major League playing time before judging what to do with them. Howard’s injury opens the door for that to happen early next season as long as Howard isn’t rushed back into the lineup. They didn’t rush Utley back this year and his contributions to the team at the end of this season were certainly a big improvement compared to the end of last year. Anyone interested in sports history might want to check this out on the Philly Sports History website. Nearly everybody reads the Bulletin. http://phillysportshistory.com/2011/10/14/welcome-to-the-1911-world-series/

     
    • Posts: 0 Bob Myers

      Well, you can bring Mayberry and Brown into more regular roles, but doing so could cost the Phillies a play off spot for 2012.

      I know they won 102 games in 2011, but I expect that the downward trend for Utley as well as Howard (after he returns from this injury) will only get worse. Rollins or Rollins replacement is likely to not have as good a year as Rollines had. Expect a sophomore jinx on Worley too, and less of a year for Victorino.

      We had the best chance of winning this year, but fell short. If we go with what we have minus the stars, or with declining stars, we face winning less than 90 games next year. 2012 will be challenging.

       
      • Posts: 566 Brian Sr. of CO

        Less than 90 wins? You expect the Phillies to lose 12 MORE games in 2012? Based on what exactly? I guess you are right because clearly the Phillies were just flat out lucky to win 102 this year. I mean, look, they lost 8 straight games after they locked up the division AND home field advantage, so clearly they SUCK. Get a clue. I don’t expect 102 wins again, probably more like 97 wins again, but come on, all this doom and gloom again just because the Cardinals beat the Phillies in a best of 5 series? Has everyone forgotten that the Cardinals A. are a FAR better team than their record says, B, Match up very well against the Cardinals and C. was one of the only, if not the only NL team with a winning record against the Phillies during the Regular Season. I am VERY confident that if the Braves did not completely CHOKE, the Phillies would be playing this evening in game 6 of the NLCS. The Cards match up better against the Phillies. That is possible.

         
  • Posts: 0 JB

    Brown needs more ABs and playing time in LF. It would be best to give him those in the minors just like Vance Worley did before Blanton and Oswalt spent significant DL time. Brown has not spent a whole lot of time in AAA. He also needs to gain confidence. A position switch should be done, at his age, in the minors. Until you can give him significant playing time in the majors, do not call him up.

     
  • Posts: 0 Jeff Orbach

    I wonder if either Dom Brown or Ryan Howard for that matter -, ever read what I consider the greatest hitting book ever written “The Science of Hitting” by Ted Williams.

    I look at Dom Brown, I see an immature young man, who has been told how great he is so many times that he believes it. I don’t think he has the maturity (yet), to understand that to be great you have to work at it all the time.

    I Think Raj Did what he did to maybe disabuse him of the notion that he is the greatest thing since sliced bread!

    I think RAJ is probably doing this to him to try to get the message through to him that there he has a lot of work to do and needs to work hard to make the Bigs.

     
    • Posts: 0 Mark

      Thanks for your psychological evaluation from a distance. That changes my opinion of Brown completely.

       
 
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