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The Futures of Rollins, Madson, Dom Brown

Posted by Corey Seidman, Tue, October 11, 2011 02:12 PM | Comments: 44
Free Agency, Offseason, Transactions

Ruben Amaro and Jimmy Rollins both spoke to the media Tuesday, outlining potential plans for a crucial offseason.

Rollins reiterated his desire for a five-year deal, though conceded that he would take a four-year deal with an option. The option, however, would have to be his option, not one belonging to the team. Team options often go unexercised, meaning that the player is bought out of the last year of his deal for a significantly smaller amount. Examples would be Roy Oswalt, who has a $16MM mutual option for 2012 with a buyout of $2MM, and Brad Lidge, who has a $12.5 million team option with a buyout of $1.5MM. Oswalt and Lidge will almost certainly not have their options picked up.

This is the kind of scenario Rollins wishes to avoid, and he can do so by fighting for a player option — which he’d control — or a vesting option — controlled by things like amount of plate appearances or games played in the previous year(s). Rollins acknowledged that he cannot see himself in another uniform and that there is a “good chance” he’ll strike a deal with the Phillies, but he has made clear time and again that his last contract will be all about years and money, not friendship or loyalty. He’s certainly entitled to that.

Amaro stated that he’d fill the closer’s role with a veteran, either Ryan Madson or otherwise. Madson will be the second-best free agent closer this winter in a market of many. At 31, he is younger than Heath Bell (34), Jose Valverde (34) and Francisco Cordero (37), and is coming off of a season more productive than all options other than Jonathan Papelbon, also 31.

By quick count, and assuming Valverde re-signs with the Tigers, eleven teams need closers. Of those eleven, it is unlikely that Houston, San Diego or Baltimore makes a strong push. One sleeper to watch out for is the new-look Marlins, whom MLB.com beat writer Joe Frisaro noted could make a run at Madson.

If the Phillies do fall short of Madson’s and agent Scott Boras’ demands, which is a virtual certainty given the team’s reluctance to hand four- or five-year deals even to starting pitchers, Heath Bell would be a nice option at three years.

Or if Papelbon’s time in Boston is indeed over, maybe the Phils feel more comfortable with him. Papelbon has said that for him, it’s not about the money, it’s about going to a place where he feels he can contend for a championship.

Amaro went on to say that the plan for Domonic Brown is to give him a full year in Triple-A. Many have already expressed disdain over this comment, but if you really think about it, it makes sense. Brown has only 69 games and 292 Triple-A plate appearances under his belt, and it’s not as if he has wowed us enough at the major league level to deem him instantly ready for everyday duty in left field.

Brown has been jerked around by the organization — an organization that struggles with top prospects… it probably held Chase Utley and Ryan Howard back too long — but keeping him at Lehigh Valley for the majority of 2012 wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. First off, Brown will likely outperform the competition and earn a call to the bigs in June or July. And secondly, if he produces in Triple-A like we all expect him to, not only will he be more ready for the majors but his trade value will increase should Amaro do the unthinkable and center a deal for a Matt Kemp-type around Brown.

A very interesting Tuesday morning, to say the least. Phillies Nation will update you daily on all offseason developments.

Avatar of Corey Seidman

About Corey Seidman

Corey Seidman has written 210 articles on Phillies Nation.

Corey is Analysis Editor for Phillies Nation and also writes for CSNPhilly.com.

 
 
  • Posts: 426 Publius

    Avatar of Publius

    If they’re essentially punting on Brown, they should look to trade him to shore up a couple of holes. Trading Brown++ for Chase Headley or Heath Bell of the Padres is one option, or to the Mariners for Brandon League and one of their myriad outfielders (Casper Wells? Trayvon Robinson?) is another.

    Trading Brown for cheap help in the OF, 3B and/or RP will open up enough salary to both retain Jimmy and extend Cole.

    For the record I am definitely against them trading Brown, but if they are just gonna let him rot away in AAA I think the Phils need to win now before the three aces succumb to age and Chase and Vic sink into a Howardian decline.

     
    • Posts: 312 Corey Seidman

      Avatar of Corey Seidman

      If the Phillies were to eventually trade Domonic Brown, which there is no indication they have any interest of doing, it would certainly be for more than a Chase Headley-type. It would be for a superstar player.

      Heath Bell is a free agent now, no longer a member of the Padres.

       
      • Posts: 426 Publius

        Avatar of Publius

        Can an OFer who hit ~.750 OPS in AAA really be the draw for a “superstar” player? I don’t think he has that type of clout, unless we add at least one of the baby aces along with him in the package.

        As for Bell, he is arbitration-eligible and has said he would accept arb, so we don’t know for sure if he’s an FA yet or not.

         
      • Posts: 312 Corey Seidman

        Avatar of Corey Seidman

        Responding to Publius’ comment below this:

        1) Brown will enter 2012 as a top-5 prospect in all of baseball. His Triple-A OPS is immaterial to any talent evaluator, but either way, he’s hit .298/.390/.453 in Triple-A for an .843 OPS, not .750.

        2) Heath Bell has made known his desire to remain in San Diego but he’s seeking a multi-year deal to do so. Any report I can find of him accepting arbitration lists it as an “outside shot.”

         
  • Posts: 0 TheDipsy

    I will TAKE Matt Kemp, thank you very much. Dom Brown plus any other two Phils minor leaguers. Jimmy – happy trails to you, my friend. There is no way on god’s green earth – as in ZERO percent – that Amaro signs him to a four year deal. Well, maybe at 4y12m…. To have TWO overpaid albatross salaries would be just too much. Dom Brown at AAA all season? What an irresponsible statement. RAJ has no idea what’s gonna happen with Dom. If he kills it in Spring training and then he starts the first 50 games in AAA at 15/40/.320 you’re not gonna bring him up? Puh-lease.

    Bell will be a Phil.

    The Dipsy

     
    • Posts: 0 Steve

      Zero percent huh? 4/12m?? Do you even WATCH BASEBALL you jackwagon :-)

      I’m glad your on here to tell us what you think, albeit without merit. Rollins will be a Phillie next year, period.

       
    • Posts: 0 VegasVic

      Dom Brown and Victorino for Kemp.

       
      • Posts: 426 Publius

        Avatar of Publius

        lol not even close

         
  • Posts: 0 Rick

    Yea lets just keep Brown in the minors till hes 30

     
  • Posts: 0 VegasVic

    Dom Brown can’t even start on a team (phils) that need a left fielder, what does that tell you. He is overrated and should be traded for a 2012 starting player if possible.

     
    • Posts: 576 Brian Sr. of CO

      Avatar of Brian Sr. of CO

      Do the Phillies need a Left Fielder? I had watched the Phillies the entire season, and saw John Mayberry Jr do rather well. The question will be if he fills in at first for Howard. If not, the Phillies have a Left Fielder. What else does John Mayberry Jr have to do to prove he is better than Dom Brown?

       
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Dom Brown is 24 years old …… and was rushed to the big leagues before the Phillies own scouts said he was ready

    Accoridng to Jayson Stark back in like July or August ….. Multiple scouts in the organization told Amaro repeatedly that he needs more time playing everyday in the minor leagues …but before Pence, with Francisco struggling, and Victorino heading to the DL … Brown was what Amaro considered his best option, despite the scouts saying he wasn’t ready

    ….
    Corey… I’ve seen a few places that Lidge’s buyout is $1.5 …not $2.5 ?? Which might make a difference if we’re pushing the LUX TAX again …. IF buyouts count directly against the payroll number ??

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    I can’t blame the Phillies for giving up prospects the past few seasons to add Halladay, Oswalt, Pence ….. in place of Myers, Moyer, etc ….

    The Phillies made themselves better and went ALL IN while their championship window is propped open … the problem though is that if you do that repeatedly, you run out of money to pay those verterans… and you dont have enough talent to replace them

    I wouldn’t trade any of the remaining “baby aces” because we’ll need young, cheap pitching since we’ll have to buy all of our position players after Utley, Vic, Polly… and thats coming sooner than we think

     
  • Posts: 31 Gavin

    Avatar of Gavin

    It’s good to keep Brown in the minors for 1 more year, I think this year he was clearly not ready. And if he’s playing really good at Lehigh Valley, He’ll be in Philly soon enough.

    For the closer spot, keep Madson or go for Papelbon. For shortstop Rollins or Reyes, if possible.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ryan H

    I frankly don’t understand why everybody has completely given up on dom brown. he hit .250 in the bigs. not too bad for a rook. he had 5 homers . had two in one game that I remember. had he played the whole year he could have easily put up close to 20 homers. this guy will be a very good player. just needs to be given a chance.

    j roll needs to walk. I don’t care what type of deal he wants. we need youth. look for an option via trade or free agency that is younger and cheaper. a long term deal for J roll will be another anchor around this teams neck we don’t need. smart teams don’t sign people out of loyalty or sentimentality. time to wave bye bye jimmy.

    the biggest pressing issue is re signing hamels. lock him up. give him whatever he wants. he’s one of the 3 best lefties in the game and just entering his prime.

     
    • Posts: 2978 Chuck A.

      Avatar of Chuck A.

      Ryan….who should play shortstop for the Phillies next year?

       
      • Posts: 0 loupossehl

        Go after Reyes. Hate can become love in a hurry. If we have to pay big bucks to keep an ageing Rollins whose skills can only go downhill from here, then pay bigger bucks to pick up a guy in his prime. Our whole infield need rejuvenation; how better to start than with shortstop.

        Even if it ends up that Reyes wants more than we’re willing to pay, it would force the Mets to pay more than they wanted, in order to keep him.

        Can’t lose; might win.

         
      • Posts: 5070 Lefty

        Avatar of Lefty

        Reyes is a good shortstop. But I can’t forgive the stunt he pulled (bunt first time up for a base hit and then pull yourself from the game) in the last game to win the batting title. He should have played and given Braun a fighters chance to catch him fair and square. Ted Williams frozen head would be rolling in it’s freezer if he knew what Reyes did. Sorry Lou this is more than just normal Mets hate, it’s contempt to the nth degree.

         
      • Posts: 0 loupossehl

        I totally understand your point, Lefty. Somehow when I picture a guy giving up 5 of the prime years of his career to fight for his country, including landing a flaming jet on a carrier deck, Reyes’ image is not the one that jumps into my mind. (My complete collection of ’50 Bowman baseball cards features 3 Ted Williams cards … one of them fairly good; one kind of beat up that I got in a costly trade with another kid about 60 years ago – probably cost me 3 or 4 pieces of gum, dammit.)

        I think that we have various options and are in pretty good shape in the outfield – and even at first base (Mayberry/Rizzotti?). But we have serious problems elsewhere around the horn – both in the field, where everyone is long of tooth, and offensively as we all know. We have to, HAVE TO do something about a club that ends its season against a lesser team by being shut out with 3 hits, not being able to support the best pitcher in the game by scoring even one run. After the first inning of Game 3, except for a single swing by Ben Fresh, our offense was totally, utterly, sickeningly pathetic. Even if Galvis were ready for the Bigs, he’s reputed to be major league with the glove but not with the stick. We’ve already got a club with big problems getting guys on base and knocking in runs – don’t need to make the problem worse.

        If not Reyes or some other option I haven’t read in the comments here, what do we do … look forward in ’12 to (at best) a replay of ’11?

        Bottom line is from the front office perspective, I like the Machiavellian idea of going after Reyes and running up the price on the Mets. And if by some miracle he falls through the cracks, so be it.

         
      • Posts: 0 Ryan H

        anybody with a brain who watches baseball consistently would tell you no friggin way to sign reyes. that would be worse than signing rollins. reyes is a cancerous character and a constant dl threat. he’ll command huge money too. no way no way.

        I’d go after a serviceable younger guy with some potential to grow. somebody who brings energy and speed to the lineup

         
      • Posts: 0 actuallyChilled

        “Ted Williams frozen head would be rolling in it’s freezer if he knew what Reyes did. ”

        this comment pretty much made my day. serious props

         
    • Posts: 0 loupossehl

      “Anyone with a brain who watches baseball consistently would tell you no friggin way to sign Reyes … a cancerous character …. he’ll command huge money too.

      I’d go after a serviceable younger guy with some potential to grow. Someone who brings energy and speed to the lineup. ”

      Great. Who? What does he add (not merely, say, offer Valdez, Pedro Feliz or David Bell numbers) to the offense, and who with that description is available in the free agent market, this time around? (Answer: crickets chirping … )

       
  • Posts: 0 bacardipr05

    5 years is too much Jimmy its just too much for your age and injury proneness. You had a decent year this year but previous 2 years you where mediocre. At that he wants it to be his option he is asking too much. I dont know i he is aiming slightly higher so he can get a 4 year. Meaning if he said 4 the Phils would offer him 3. Three years is all i can offer with a team option for a fourth final offer. If not we will look elsewhere we dont need another albatross. It will hurt to see Jimmy on another team but its a business. When i think Phils, J-Roll is the first player that pops in my head with Utley 2nd , Albatross 3rd followed by Shane then Ruiz. He wants a big payout like the Albatross one can say we got him for a bargain but not really seen he had 2 off years. You are no longer a leadoff man on a championship caliber team my friend take the 3 years you can always get another contract for a year with another team once said 3 years is up as a sub/mentor thing.

     
    • Posts: 0 koyboy17

      Well, unless we get a reyes.. who would be a great replacement for polanco (speed, make up for the average polly is consistent with).. jimmy with a good arm.. could cover third nicely.. imagine if we swung the deal for Michael young and hunter pence.. (unless there’s a better option at third). And add a bunch of speed to the lineup. But i’m not really a Reyes fan personally.

      I’d just like to say, that j-roll, has never asked for Albatross like numbers for his contract.. and i don’t think his numbers the last 3 years would demand that… but he is a productive player, a team leader, and a confident anchor in the middle of our defense.. if you read the demeanors of the rest of the team during the division series i found jimmy to be the coolest and calmest, as well as most productive towards the end of the series (along with Vic). Jimmy is just a big time player.. and it really is a shame the way Raul’s and Chase’s balls were sooooo close to going out and giving us that win…

      we’d be talking a totally different situation right now.

       
  • Posts: 0 bacardipr05

    Ps…..I could be wrong but i thought Papelbon had problems in the Cabeza no? Would he be a good fit for the Phillies?

     
    • Posts: 576 Brian Sr. of CO

      Avatar of Brian Sr. of CO

      Say NO to Papelbon! He does well in low threat, low pressure situations. Philiadelphia is not a place for someone who does not always do well in high threat high pressures situations.

       
  • Posts: 0 BART SHART

    Dom Brown, Victorino and Michael Martinez for Kemp. Let’s sweeten the deal with Martinez and seal it for the Phils.

     
  • Posts: 0 phil

    If the dodgers were dumb enough to do that trade for Kemp then it would get done. They would probably trade Kemp to dump salary so why bring on shanes and martinez has no trade value at all…he is a bad player. We would probably have to give up brown and one of the baby aces at the very least to land Kemp.

     
  • Posts: 0 TheDipsy

    RE: Kemp. The Dodgers have no money so they might wanna unload him if they get enough in return. I wouldn’t do that but Frank McCourt or whoever is running that team. Kershaw needs to get signed. Ethier. Loney. They can’t keep everyone. If you want Kemp, I think it would take at least Brown, Worley and their pick of any other pitcher in our system. And I would do it in a second.

    Dear Steve, whoever you are,….ZERO percent if its four years. 4y12m was sarcasm. The fact that I have to point that out to you…well, never mind.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 psujoe

    I calculate about $35-$40 million to acquire a closer, ss, of, if.

    That was assuming Brown, Kratz and Defratus made the roster at low salaries. Jimmy is gone if another team is willing to lock him up for 5 years. Phils will not. Rube said the organization is split on Galvis’ ability to start in 2012 so look for a good fielding contact hitter to hold it down until Galvis becomes the man.

    Not a lot of quality hitting OF in FA, but I’d seriously look at a guy like Cuddyer because he plays 1B, 2B, 3B and LF/RF. Solid OBP.

    Aramis Ramirez would be ideal, but you it would be a stretch to afford him unless you can trade Polanco. I think Epsein signs his option umless he cleans house when he takes the job.

    Ideal:
    Cuddyer 3/$36 (12)
    Ramirez 4/$60 (15)
    Madson 3/$24 (8)
    Carroll 2/$3 (1.5)
    SS (?) plug in a renteria for $1.5

    Victorino
    Utley
    Ramirez
    Howard
    Pence
    Cuddyer
    Ruiz
    Galvis/renteria
    Lineup

    Mayberry plays LF, Cuddyer 1B until Howard gets back.

     
  • Posts: 0 Psujoe

    Scratch Carroll in my ideal scenario unless you can trade Polly. He becomes the utility guy.

     
  • Posts: 0 Larry L.

    It doesn’t matter WHO comes in to Philly to play. Whomever they may be, they all get a lifetime supply of the Official Sports Drink of Philadelphia: CHOKE-A-COLA !!

     
  • Posts: 0 Psujoe

    Larry, not true. The lineup has just lost it’s power so they need to modify their game.

     
  • Posts: 57 LCMRSalazar85

    Avatar of LCMRSalazar85

    Stay away from Reyes! He’s a cancer and needs to stay in NYC for the rest of what’s left of his career. Removing himself from the last game of the regular season to keep the batting crown proves he believes he’s the center of the universe. I’ll take JRoll at his word that he wants to stay. Give him the 4 yrs, plus his option, but load it with performance incentives the last 2 years. He’s earned it. Madson is a totally different story. Boras hates Philly. However, I think if Mad Dog does leave, he’ll run into similar issues as Werth did when he left. I don’t know if Paplebon would be a good fit here. He had a good year, but showed he can’t hack Sept. I think he needs to head west. If we can snag Matt Kemp, I’d take him. Instant upgrade in the outfield, and Dom Brown can get his head screwed on right. 1B is too wide open. Not convinced J Mayberry Jr is the answer. He got hot towards the end of the year, but don’t know if he can do the entire season. I’m not sold on him. Ben Francisco is in the same boat too. It’s shaping up to be a very interesting off season.

     
  • Posts: 0 bacardipr05

    No J-Roll for 5 years its just too long. The problem is can a already weak offense absorb Galvis until he becomes at least a decent enough hitter. I say the answer to that question is no. If we lock him up for 5 years then he would untradeable . This is another aspect of signing him for that long that many are missing.

     
  • Posts: 0 JoeMo

    Blanton, Lidge, Ibanez, Oswalt all need to go. Hamels deserves a long tern deal and a big raise. Madson deserves a big raise but no more than a 3 year deal. Rollins gets offered a 3 year extension and no raise or let him walk (Don’t get Jetered by Rollins, Rube). Polanco needs to go for a bag of potatoes. Sucks that Howard will be an anchor around Rube’s neck for the next 5 years to the tune of $125M. As evidenced by the past 3 postseasons, this team desperately needs bats. They also need to get younger. Starting pitching is awesome and the pen needs a little bit of help, but not a ton. They will pick up $50M in salary with the 4 cuts shown above. This will give them $$$ to pay Hamels, Madson, and get some quality bats. Mayberry and Worley have earned their right to consistently play at this level. Worley becomes the #4 starter and we can give Kendrick one final chance to win and keep the #5 slot.

     
    • Posts: 0 Don M

      Getting rid of player that you owe money to doesn’t mean that you don’t owe them money anymore … Blanton is owed $10.5 M this year, regardless if he plays for us or not … Ibanez’ contract comes off the books ($10 M – but thats the same amount that Lee gets as a raise this season…so its a wash)

      Lidge and Oswalt will cost $3.5 M … to buyout their contracts. Instead of nearly $28.5 M to keeping them using their extensions.

      If you buy them out, you can try to resign them at a lower price, but you’ve already paid $3.5 M regardless…. SOMEBODY will be willing to pay Oswalt at least $10 M per season to pitch (Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs..etc… teams with deep pockets that need pitching)..

      but so of those 4 players, you can possible $25 Million (buy not bring Lidge and Oswalt back) … but you need to then sign a closer, and they cost something similar to the $12 M that Lidge was due to make …..

      and saying “Madson deserves a big raise but no more than a 3 year deal” ….is all well and good, but would you definitely not be willing to go to a 4th year if it was the difference between him staying here, or choosing another team ?

       
  • Posts: 0 Ryan H

    everybody is panicking and acting like we have to clean house. but this team won 102 games. and it could have easily been 107. the reality is that the playoffs are a bit of a crapshoot sometimes. you could bring back every single player on this entire roster next year and win the world series.

     
  • Posts: 0 actuallyChilled

    good point about the crap shoot. not to make any excuses for poor performance, but I couldnt help but think about the argument to extend the NLDS to a 7 game series after the loss. That extra few games really does turn it into a series. I know they want to keep it brief after a long season and avoid November, but we are talking about 2 games here, not 10. Plus, if it has any impact to reflect the regular season at all with that small extension, then so be it.

    It has been too many years that the teams which win it all are random hot teams at the years end. this is not reflective of the game’s measure of stamina and longevity which is as the heart of its values. even NBA and NHL have longer playoffs (I believe?), and the amount of games they play is even shorter in the season! This is almost insulting to the energy these players put in all year long, and makes the playoffs seem almost separate from the season itself.

    obviously as a philly fan in our case this year, it brings the issue to attention, even though we know they could have played better anyway.

     
  • Posts: 0 bacardipr05

    Possibly Ryan H but problems for this time are not only this year have been since last year. Their inability to score its either feast or famine 80% of the time. The ability to be completely loss against mediocre starters. Some of these problems are Cholly philosophy and inability to adapt. Tweaks need to be made to make this a stronger offensive team.

     
  • Posts: 0 Dave

    The team refuses to take walks, bunt and hit and run.

     
  • Posts: 0 Psujoe

    Polanco OBP .105, slugpct .105
    Ruiz. OBP .111, slugpct .049
    Howard OBP .143…

    That’s just awful

     
  • Posts: 0 Derek

    This just in…. Pitching is good, batting is down FOR EVERY ONE. I believe only one person hit over 40 Hr in the NL and until the ankle injury Howard was a shoe in for RBI leader…. Yes his numbers are down but is that really worth unloading him for someone with more consistancy but less power numbers? Not to me. Teach him to finally lay of breaking balls (like he did in Sept.) and his numbers will be fine. There are bigger problems on this team then that. Stop the hate and educate yourselves.

     
 
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