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Free Agency: Madson, Cuddyer, Oswalt

Posted by Pat Gallen, Wed, November 09, 2011 08:08 AM | Comments: 72
Analysis, News, Opinion, Posts

–We still await word on the finality of the Ryan Madson deal. According to Jon Heyman of SI.com, they are awaiting the approval of David Montgomery, and have for the last 24-plus hours. No word on what is holding up his end of the deal at this point.

From my perspective, the four-year, $44 million deal with a fifth-year option at $13 million seems very, very high for a relief pitcher. I’m a big fan of Madson and enjoy the stability he brings as the ninth inning guy. But I can’t help but think this really takes away from a lot of different scenarios now and in the future – all for a guy who gets three outs. Closers may not grow on trees, but as the Braves proved last year, you can find young guys to get the job done.

Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com is also reporting that Jonathan Papelbon is still in the mix for the team. How much cheaper would he come? Probably not much. However, if the Phillies were to get Papelbon at $10 million over three seasons without any option, is it a better outcome for the team? The issue still is giving up a draft pick to sign a guy like Papelbon. Among the closers that would cost the Phillies a lot of money AND a draft pick: Papelbon, Heath Bell, Matt Capps, Francisco Cordero, and Francisco Rodriguez. Perhaps Ruben Amaro is leery of giving both of those up – he’d rather keep his own guy at a higher price with the ability to bolster the farm system with a prospect or two in the draft.

–According to Fox 29, Michael Cuddyer was in Philadelphia yesterday talking to the team. Free Agent trips like this are commonplace, however, the Phillies have been hot on the trail of Cuddyer now since free agency began.

The sense in the baseball community is that Cuddyer will seek roughly $10 million per season on a three-year deal, with a fourth year possible. That to me also seems a little bit high. What happened to Ruben Amaro wanting to get younger? That’s certainly not the way.

Also, if Madson signs at $11 million per season and Cuddyer inks a deal for the same, the Phillies will have roughly $8-10 million to spend, if my calculations are correct. Is that enough for Jimmy Rollins, not to mention other positions that need to be taken care of? Amaro told Jim Duquette of Sirius/MX’s MLB Network Radio yesterday that the payroll would be about the same. If that’s the case, then signing Cuddyer would seem to be it. Something seems fishy. I think if the Phillies want both Madson and Cuddyer at that price, then they have to go near $180 million, or above it – depending on where the luxury tax sits this year.

–The Phillies are also keeping tabs on Roy Oswalt. How does he fit into the equation? I honestly have no idea. A pitching-desperate team like the Nationals is sure to be able to offer Oswalt more. The question then becomes, is it about making more money to end his career, or figuring out how to get that so-far elusive title he’s been seeking since his glory days in Houston?

–What do ticket prices have to do with free agency? Well, when they go up at Citizens Bank Park, you’d hope the Phillies would be able to use to acquire more talent. That’s exactly what’s happening, according to the Philadelphia Inquire. Hall of Fame and infield seats will rise $5 per ticket, with baseline seats seeing a $3 increase.

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About Pat Gallen

Pat Gallen has written 1592 articles on Phillies Nation.

Pat is Editor-in-Chief of Phillies Nation. He also covers the Phils for 97.5 FM in Philly.

 
 
  • Posts: 2919 Chuck A.

    Avatar of Chuck A.

    Well, there you go. Tickets going up. I mean, I KNEW that would be the case but just seeing it in print like that is impactful. I know I said earlier to “F the luxury tax” but that was just me kind of throwing my hands up at this whole thing and accepting whatever happens cause I and the rest of us have no bearing on any decisions anyway. But the reality is that going over the luxury tax will set a precedent FOREVER.

     
  • Posts: 2067 Brooks

    Avatar of Brooks

    First year at CBP, my seats were $22 per game. This year they were $32.
    Same seats $35? Wow, unless Rube can stack the lineup (like he had us believing it was last year), this could all be a bust.
    A strong chance of losing Jimmy, no Howard to start the year (no matter how disfunctional his performance has been, he has and will be capable of past heroics), a very innefective Poly, a second baseman that will never live up to the standards he set.
    The table WAS set last year. The problem was that adjustments were not made offensively. Can we ever come close to what AFW said repeatedly, the team for the ages? I just dont think its possible.
    This year, the sell outs will probably end. This year, even if the Phils are going to win the NL east (questionable), will they have enough in their tanks to give us a thrill to the top?
    I don’t know. I just don’t know.

     
  • Posts: 0 Jeff Dowder

    I don’t mind the team spending money – it’s the way they’re spending money that’s puzzling. We knew the Ibanez and Polanco signings would look bad by year three of the deals. The speculative Cuddyer contract will fall into the same category – another guy who’s already had his best seasons and is entering his decline phase. I don’t see the need to lock up a closer for four years (with a 5th year vesting option!?!?). Yikes. The three year deal to Blanton and two year deal for Baez. were terrible contracts. Of course, the most puzzling was extending Howard almost two years before it was necessary. RAJ really failed on predicting Howard’s 2012 market value.

     
  • Posts: 2067 Brooks

    Avatar of Brooks

    I’m just a little skeptical Chuck

     
  • Posts: 0 Mazinman

    I really don’t mind ticket prices going up if we keep bringing in good players and winning titles. Seems like a fair trade.

    Its interesting that Salisbury basically denied that a deal was that close with Madson and emphasized Papelbon as an option. We seem to have two contradicting reports. Could it be that some in the Phillies front office prefer Papelbon and insist in trying to sign him over Madson? Could the Phils be crazy enough to go for both?

     
  • Posts: 0 TheDipsy

    Cuddyer is gonna sign. I bet its today. I don’t care about ticket prices. I’ll go to five games a year instead of ten. I have a TV so it works out well. Just spend the money on the right guys.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    I think infield seats are going to be like $65 now ….. for the product the Phillies give, thats one of the best values of all the similar teams in baseball..

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    I initially thought that $11 M , and 4 years for Madson was a lot …. BUT …..

    The Phillies bullpen is in a place that it hasn’t been before.. with actual legit pitchers coming from the farm, and being under team control and arbitration for a few years. .

    Madson’s $11 M .. will work nicely with Schwim, DeFratus, Stutes, Bastardo.. Savery?… all making the minimum, or not much more for a couple years. . . .

    Also, Madson COULD be an inning-PLUS guy, as he did in the playoffs.. but I think that Stutes and Bastardo as the 8th inning guys should work well as they gain more confidence and experience to build on last year … I would still love to see them bring in another lefty, I think its obvious that they should have a minimum of 2 LHP.. i’d prefer 3

    Still need a SS plan, a Backup Catcher plan… and if Rollins doesn’t sign, is it because the Phillies are going to go hard after David Wright next year (saving money on Rollins, Vic, Blanton- all possibly off the books)

     
    • Posts: 426 Publius

      Avatar of Publius

      Or you could take flyers on cheaper guys and plug them into the bullpen and see who emerges as closer (guys like Farnsworth, Nathan, Francisco, etc). and use the money in other places, like SS or extending Cole, both of which are MUCH more important than filling the most overhyped position in the sport.

       
      • Posts: 0 Don M

        I agree… I imagine however that they’ll try to backload this deal, so the salary hit for this year and next will probably be similar to getting multiple guys and taking the chance that one of them emerges …

        Veteran arms with closer-abilities are likely going to cost $2-4 M each (Contreras, Baez come to mind) those two cost $5 M this season…

        I would’ve gone with a veteran on a one-year deal to be the Closer, resigned Rollins, and then see who the best of your farm-grown RPs is to take the closer role in 2013 … BUT… they wanted to have a sure-thing at the back end, especially with how unproven the rest of their pen is … not sure I love that its a 4-year deal, but I do like having Madson there, I trust him a lot

         
  • Posts: 0 BART SHART

    The money boggles my mind……just does.

     
  • Posts: 4128 Lefty

    Avatar of Lefty

    Don M, – 11m for 4 may be reasonable, even below market. It’s what Francisco Cordero got 4 years ago, and he was already 33 at the time.

    But if it is true there is a fifth year vesting option without a buyout at 13m, that is totally unreasonable. It’s a very high inflation rate from Cordero in 2008.

    I’m looking at it like this- What if – after 2008 we gave our 31 year old perfect closer with a 1.95 ERA, a five year deal? How would we feel about that today? We’d have a guy with only one pitch left in his arsenal, for two more years preventing us from signing Madson at all.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    I;m not complaining… that’s the going rate for a Closer – and Madson’s a good one .. I just would’ve made Rollins the bigger priority over Madson, but that’s why i’m not a GM

     
  • Posts: 2067 Brooks

    Avatar of Brooks

    Lefty, dude… you almost made me gag on my Cheerios!

     
    • Posts: 4128 Lefty

      Avatar of Lefty

      We can only hope that David Montgomery had the same reaction on his caviar.

       
      • Posts: 2919 Chuck A.

        Avatar of Chuck A.

        I don’t see Monty eating caviar. Seems more like a shrimp cocktail kind of guy to me.

         
  • Posts: 0 TheDipsy

    Yardbarker reporting that its a done deal. 4/44 with a 13m option. I don’t know who’s option it is. I hope it would be ours or mutual. If its just his, the deal goes from stupid to unconscionable.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 1180 Manny

    Avatar of Manny

    http://twitter.com/#!/SI_JonHeyman/status/134153011424538625

    I guess that buying that Madson jersey in 08 turned out to be a great investment…

     
    • Posts: 0 matt

      yea or not….time for cinco ocho

       
  • Posts: 0 Tom

    People…this is the economics of baseball today! If you want to stay competitive every year, you have to spend! For years fans have complained that the ownership treats this team like a small market franchise! Now that the front office seems to have turned the corner, we can’t complain about free agents and ticket prices!! They are not asking us to pay the same as NY or Boston, so relax and take pride in the knowledge that this organization is now committed to winning in 2012 and beyond!!

     
    • Posts: 4128 Lefty

      Avatar of Lefty

      I have no problem with them spending, I’d give Madson very good money for a 2 year deal. I have a problem with long contracts and extensions. See my Brad Lidge example above.

       
    • Posts: 0 George

      Spend to be competitive every year? Tell that one to the Tampa Bay Rays. Sometimes it’s not what you spend, but how you spend it. And yes, we can complain about free agents and ticket prices if it means watching the arthritic and senile, or not being able to attend games at all.

       
    • Posts: 0 Jeff Dowder

      Nobody’s complaining about the Phillies spending money. The problem is how they are spending money. That’s what people are worried about. They are spending big money on players who for the most part have already had their best years. Wouldn’t it be great to make an offer to a guy like Matt Kemp after 2012? He’d be a free agent and only 28 years old. With so much money tied up with guys in decline, there won’t be much left to actually try to get a guy in his prime. This is the oldest team in baseball, and it’s due for some changes. Signing someone like Cuddyer (33 on opening day) for three years will only make the situation worse.

      And then there’s the Hamels extension to consider…

       
  • Posts: 4128 Lefty

    Avatar of Lefty

    I can’t think of one player so far that RAJ has overpaid, extended early, or gave a multiyear deal to that has proven to be worth the money for their entire contract. We got two great years out of Halladay, that has a good chance of working out. Lee is an unknown yet.

    I must be forgetting someone, help me out here, I can’t think of one.

     
    • Posts: 0 George

      Polanco still has a year to go, so his contract can’t yet be figured as a bust. Rollins’ 2011 option was picked up early, and he certainly did okay. Victorino seems to be working out. There’s also Ruiz, who is probably worth more than he’s getting over his multi-year deal. Some of the others, such as the Howard extension, are also unknowns (he’s got five more years to prove his value or lack thereof), although so far that one doesn’t look good.

       
      • Posts: 0 Don M

        Thats the nature of Free Agency …. or preventing your own players from going there. you pay and overpay for team needs.

        Polanco at $6 M – when he’s healthy is great …. when he’s not healthy, it sucks

        But they tried to get Beltre, and he didnt want to come here.. thank god they didnt sign Chone Figgins, Mark DeRosa, Melvin Mora or whoever else was out there..

        and in the bigger picture.. is ANY free agent ever worth their deal or “proven to be worth the money for the entire contract” ??

         
      • Posts: 4128 Lefty

        Avatar of Lefty

        Yes- I forgot about Shane and Ruiz, those have both been good.

        Howard’s is still unknown because it hasn’t officially started yet, but had he not done it, wouldn’t it be fun be involved in the Fielder/Pujols market this offseason? Oh well, that’s spilt milk.

         
      • Posts: 0 George

        So lets speculate, and assume that the Phils didn’t extend Howard. Pujols has already turned down quite a bit more money and a more years from St. Louis. Fielder will be getting pretty big bucks, too; maybe more than Howard has gotten.

        Productive 1st basemen don’t seem to come cheap. Even the disappointing Texiera is making $23 million per.

        No wonder Amaro went ahead with a questionable contract. Pujols might be better, but he could get injured, too. And Fielder (ironic name considering his defense) is an even worse body type than Ryan Howard.

         
  • Posts: 834 betasigmadeltashag

    Avatar of betasigmadeltashag

    I am sorry but four years for a closer is too long, and 11 million is too much this early. Like I have posted before if the Nats or some other team that over spends on name guys would offer him this much or one or two mil ayear more, he would still rather play here in Philly for 6 million less over the lenghth of a four year deal wouldn’t he. too much and too long especially for a closer. I think four years is the limit for a starter

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Madson at $11 M ….. Papelbon is reportedly asking $13 M …… that’s what premium closers cost..

    Someobody suggested giving Madson a two year offer …. theres no chance he would take that deal.

    I’m not so sure that Madson would stay in Philly for $1,.5 M per year less… or $6 M over a four year deal .. the Phillies wanted a sure-thing as their Closer … they didnt want to get into a bidding war – or have to give up draft picks to sign Papelbon ……..so they made a fair market offer to keep their guy

    ……..
    It seems that because of our recent postseason failures, Amaro gets all the blame for puitting a 102-win team on the field ….

     
    • Posts: 426 Publius

      Avatar of Publius

      Then the better idea is to not fall into the fallacy of thinking that a team needs a “premium closer” in order to succeed, and spend less on roughly similar arms an use the excess to sign Cole and a shortstop.

       
    • Posts: 0 Jeff Dowder

      The Phillies are swimming in the deep end at this point. They aren’t Tampa Bay or San Francisco. They can’t be happy with just getting to the post season any longer. When you have a $170 million payroll, your success or failure is measured in October, not the regular season. When you have a payroll like the Phillies do, success is measured on winning 11 games in October.

       
    • Posts: 4128 Lefty

      Avatar of Lefty

      I didn’t suggest a two year deal, I answered Tom’s post that you have to spend in today’s game. I stated that I didn’t mind paying, just didn’t like the long contracts, and would much rather pay more for less time such as 2 years.

      The game’s greatest closer of all time signed two such ( 2 yr) deals along with a bevy of one year deals in the life of his contract. He did get one 4 year (or maybe it was 3 with an option can’t remember), but are we putting Madson in his class? And giving him a vesting option too? This is nuts.

      We saw what happened to Lidge in his final year and he was only 31 when he signed. I ask again, would you really want to be weighted down by 2 more years of Lidge right now if we’d given him 5 at 12 each instead of 3?

       
  • Posts: 0 bacardipr05

    I’ll take Papelbon for 3 at 12 Mill, rather than Madson for 4 plus a 5th Vesting option if i where Montgomery i wouldnt sign.

     
    • Posts: 426 Publius

      Avatar of Publius

      ugh no thanks. Papelbon, much like closers in general, is heavily overrated/overpaid. Get creative Ruben, sign a whole bunch of 7th and 8th-inning guys on the cheap and figure out the closer from there.

       
      • Posts: 0 Don M

        Don’t they already have a whole bunch of 7th and 8th innings guys ???

        and to add more would likely add up to something similar to what Madson will make ….and you don’t worry about blowing leads and games until you figure out which of those other bunch has what it takes

         
  • Posts: 2067 Brooks

    Avatar of Brooks

    I agree with Dowder. This team has brought home the grail and has been spending the money like a champion should.

    I just dont think the way the offense is made up that Cholly can be the leader any longer. This is not a team that will win the game with one swing anymore – offensively.

     
  • Posts: 157 therookie300

    Avatar of therookie300

    Maybe if the Phillies tank the season for the next five years and then we can stockpile number 1 draft picks. We can be like Tampa then.

     
  • Posts: 0 Phillies fan from Germany

    Horrible deal. Especially if that prevents a deal with a premier shortstop…

     
  • Posts: 0 thebigdog

    yea, what did happen to the phillies getting younger? signing madson, I agree with, but cuddyer? I dont think so. I think Amaro is waiting for another world series ring before he gets younger but the time to get younger, faster, and gain the required pop in the bats to win a world series is now. The phillies have the budget to go after one big name, and that big name should be jose reyes and i dont even have to say what he provides off and on the field. realistically, we’d have to give up on every other free agent but that’s not a problem. We just put Freddy Galvis at third and put john mayberry jr and domonic brown at left or Mayberry at first until Howard gets back

     
  • Posts: 0 Kevin

    I love how for so many years people whined about the Phillies not spending money ad now that we are one of the elite teams in all of baseball people are whining about spending too much money. Well make up your damn minds. I swear people in this city just always new aomethig to complain about and when there’s nothing they invent things to complain about. Is 11mil per year alot for a closer? Yes but that’s the going rate for an elite closer. Could we take a gamble on a lesser pitcher for half the price? Yeah but then that’s exactly what it would be is a gamble. At least for the closer role, I’d rather have a sure thing and Madson is a sure thing because he isn’t a one year wonder. He’s been good his whole career and he’s only 31. That’s still young for a closer. Closers have a long shelf life. And Madson doesnt rely on a fastball so he won’t wear as fast as other closers may. If we aregonna gamble id rather gamble on middle relief pitchers. We have a chance of keeping a good young core group of bullpen pitchers for together for years to come. Not many teams can do that.

     
    • Posts: 426 Publius

      Avatar of Publius

      No one is complaining about spending more money, but how it’s being spent. 3 year contracts for closers are terrible. Go look at Frank Francisco or Chad Cordero, the last 2 relievers who got 3 year deals. They didn’t come close to earning the money they were paid. Madson is far from a “sure thing,” as he is only one arm injury away from losing his repertoire. All pitching contracts are gambles, and I would much rather gamble with less money and spend more on a shortstop and Cole than overpay for an “elite closer”, which is a ridiculous term to begin with.

       
  • Posts: 0 bacardipr05

    Publius maybe so but i take the 3 instead of offering Madson 4 plus 1.

     
    • Posts: 426 Publius

      Avatar of Publius

      If those are my only choices, sure so would I. But they’re not. There are tons of good bullpen arms out there that require less money and years and that will get the job done probably just as well as these supposedly “elite closers”

       
      • Posts: 0 George

        “Probably” just isn’t good enough, and a “definitely” will cost just as much as Madson.

         
  • Posts: 0 Blonders

    I don’t get the whole giving up a draft pick arguement by signing Papelbon. We’d get a draft pick back when somebody would sign Madson.

     
    • Posts: 1180 Manny

      Avatar of Manny

      Yea… what’s up with that? And isn’t Boston’s pick better than ours (given 2011 performance) anyway?

       
    • Posts: 426 Publius

      Avatar of Publius

      Depends on who signs Madson. If Madson is signed by someone with a protected pick, we only get a sandwich pick and a second round, while losing our first to Boston. Not an equal trade at all in terms of value.

       
      • Posts: 1180 Manny

        Avatar of Manny

        Do you know which teams have a protected pick? I think the Marlins are one… are any of them realistic suitors for MadDog anyway?

         
      • Posts: 426 Publius

        Avatar of Publius

        Astros, Twins, Mariners, Orioles, Royals, Cubs, Padres, Pirates, Marlins, Rockies, A’s, Mets, White Sox, Reds and Indians are all protected, of which the Cubs, Twins, Marlins, Mets and Reds could all be in Madson’s market.

         
  • Posts: 1180 Manny

    Avatar of Manny

    As much as I want Madson back (I have his jersey), 4 years at 11M each is simply too much., especially given the depth of this FA class. I rather see us use that money to extend Cole, which is a higher priority in my book. They should be working around his extension now, see how much money will be left for 2012 and beyond and then determine if we can afford paying over 10 million to a bullpen guy. I know Madson is legit. He has been our best bullpen guy for years and I’m certain that the trend will continue. But c’mon… 4 years?! Plus a vesting option? You gotta be bleeping me.

     
  • Posts: 5 byosti

    Avatar of byosti

    For how much many people want to be like the cardinals, i’m surprised more people of these people support paying premium for a closer rather than following blueprint of the cardinals’ pen. you don’t necessarily need a “premium closer” to win. sure its nice to have but there’s more important positions and moves out there. just because you pay a guy at the market rate doesn’t make it right. you create edges over other teams by beating the market

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    The Cardinals clearly did not like their bullpen situation heading into September, and beyond …… but caught lightning in a bottle with Dotel, ZreZyupwscki, Motte all pitching lights out …

    ……
    as long as we all agree that Rollins is/was/will be more important than Madson …

     
    • Posts: 4128 Lefty

      Avatar of Lefty

      They did catch lightning in a bottle. And you mis-spelled Rzepczynski’s name badly. :)

       
      • Posts: 0 Don M

        my bad, i thought that would be an obvious enough mis-spell that people would realize i did it on purpose

         
  • Posts: 2919 Chuck A.

    Avatar of Chuck A.

    I was on here saying 3/30 would be fine. So 11 M per season is livable. And I’m sort of ok with the 4th year. But the “vesting option” 5th year. THAT’S the one I just have a real hard time with.

    I agree that you don’t want to get into a bidding war and want to “get your guy”. Ruben has done that before and, for the most part, I don’t have a problem with it. Even if Raul’s 3rd year and Polly’s 3rd year are less than what you would want….they were the best candidates for those positions at the time. And that’s what it took to sign them. And it really didn’t prevent us from signing anyone else.

    But those are position players and you can sort of rationalize the logic. With a RELIEF pitcher…albeit a damn good one…..I just can’t see this same logic being applied.

    That said, I like Madson….a lot….and am glad that he’s still a Phillie…..even if it is too expensive.

     
    • Posts: 4128 Lefty

      Avatar of Lefty

      I agree. Mariano Rivera never even got a year 5. Madson is no where near that level. I realize the game has changed and business is done differently these days. But this is just plain nuts. I believe we would end up seriously regretting this if it’s true.

       
  • Posts: 6 Avici

    Avatar of Avici

    I like the thought of getting Cuddyer, I hate the thought of getting Madson at that crappy price, and I hope we can bring Roy O. back this year pretty cheap. That would be great.

     
  • Posts: 0 TheDipsy

    Of course everyone realizes that you can ALWAYS trade for a stud closer in July or August anyway if we need one. Let Madson go. I know that RAJ likes to get his man early, but he does sometimes to his detriment (Ibanez). Let the market playout. Wait. This is the other way to play the market. Wait a couple of months or trade for a closer later. Ruben seems to dread the thought of living with an unknown variable. Ruben should realize that sometimes its ok to just sit and wait. Look at the best closers from this past season. Half the dudes you didn’t know who they were this time last year. “Fools Rush In”. Hate the movie, love the expression.

    The Dipsy

     
    • Posts: 0 George

      Yes, you can trade for a “stud closer” later. Chances are, anyone who actually has one available will want an arm and a leg for him. So then you’re not just paying a big salary, but are losing players/prospects.

       
  • Posts: 0 bacardipr05

    The Nat’s where courting Madson as well. Seems like Werth is trying to get him over as well. Wonder why Montgomery hasnt sign the papers yet i bet its that 5th year thing.

     
  • Posts: 834 betasigmadeltashag

    Avatar of betasigmadeltashag

    I would have to agree that no one on here is complaining about spending money, and I have to agree that spending this much money of this much time for a bull pen guy is not very bright. Yes he is pretty good and the market for a closer is around 10 million a year. But you do not need to spend that on a closer for four or five years. Now are you setting up a contract extension for cole to be four or five years or more? Cliff got 5 Ryan Madson got 5 So why won’t Cole ask for six at 20 million is not a starter worth twice a closer? I would think so, With this deal done, and I usually say to trust the FO that they have a plan. But this time their plan better include locking up Cole for multiple years before the season starts, And now they will have to over pay even if JRoll had a chance of coming back

     
  • Posts: 0 Jeff Dowder

    It looks like Montgomery doesn’t like this deal either. The Phillies got cold feet and are trying to back out of it. MLB on XM has already brought up the possibility of Boras filing a grievance with the league. Major miscommunications between the two sides…

     
    • Posts: 0 George

      Either someone doesn’t like this deal or some boneheaded “source” or idiot reporter got the whole thing wrong in the first place. Boras filing a grievance is probably just more imbecilic speculation on the part of idiot XM people.

       
  • Posts: 834 betasigmadeltashag

    Avatar of betasigmadeltashag

    What kind of grievance, RAJ says “how about this deal all we need is the owners to sign off and it is done” Boras to Madson “Sign away no one in their right mind is going to give any closer 4 year with a 5th option, and no one else is going to come close to 11 million per”
    Montgomery “Wait a minute, RAJ, I know I said we wanted to sign the kid, but you must be fling mad to think we want to comit to a closer much less this closer for five years, tell you meant 3 with 4th team option at 9 million per”
    Boras “what? no no I want him to over paid for 5 years I am going to cry to the Commish” How can you file a grievence before a contract has been signed, it is not like this is the last day for FA and no one else can make him an offer. Get over yourself slime bucket

     
  • Avatar of The Original Chuck P

    Be a fan… money aside, is there anyone else that you’d rather have than Madson right now on the open market?

    If the answer is no, then be excited. If the answer is “yes” then complain and say who you’d rather have.

    The money never seems real, fair or in line with what you’d expect. Brad Lidge was earning $12 per year the past three years… not a great deal but remember the euphoria of 2008? Wasn’t that worth a little extra coin? Rafael Soriano was awarded a $35 million contract for doing nothing. You can survive bad contracts when you’re winning 102 games and selling out 200+ games in a row.

    Increase the prices in the Hall of Fame levels and the baseline seats. You know how much money those people are making selling tickets? It’s a great investment even with the increases.

     
    • Posts: 2919 Chuck A.

      Avatar of Chuck A.

      Be a fan?? Really?? You’re gonna come on here and question all of us just because we maybe have a few….qualms….about a contract that seems a bit much?? Please.

      I agree that maybe it’s ok to “overpay” with players. I didn’t complain about Ibanez, Polanco, Ryan Howard. Even the Danys Baez deal had my blessing. And 3/33 or even 4/44 is ok for this guy. But the fifth year vesting option is what got my blood boiling over this. And, apparantely, it has David Montgomery thinking a bit, too….so much so that Jayson Stark reported it just awhile ago on 97.5. Is David Montgomery any less of a “fan” ??

      And to answer your question of who I’d rather have….how about Jonathan Papelbon?? Same age (actually a tad younger), 6 years closing experience compared to Madson’s one year. And CLOSING experience in the playoffs and World Series. If you can get him for 3/39 as opposed to 4/44 with that 13M vesting option…..I think you have to consider it.

      And I love Ryan Madson. Really do. But giving this kind of contract to a RELIEF pitcher with ONE YEAR of closing experience just seems a little absurd to me.

       
  • Posts: 0 phil

    I still think we should offer Joe Nathan 2 years $12mm and resign rollins before even doing something as dumb as giving up $44mm for a relief pitcher. Over laying for a short stop seems like a better idea than over paying for a closer.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    i look at Madson this way ….. i’d rather have him than not have him … he’s good.. he’s comfortable with things here.. no chance of being a distraction (K-Rod)..

    $11 M seems to make people angry.. and I get that ..

    But how about $8 Million …

    What about $9 M ….

    At some point you pay for your teams biggest needs, and if the difference between $8 M and $11 M means that Madson is here .. or we bring in Farnsworth and Francisco, etc … just give me Madson

     
    • Posts: 2919 Chuck A.

      Avatar of Chuck A.

      The money doesn’t make me angry with this…it’s the years. When is it time to draw a line in the sand? Three would have been ideal. Four I could live with. But that 5th year….even though it’s a option….that one just seems excessive to me.

      Yeah, I don’t want or K-Rod or Farnsworth, either ….even if they’re cheaper. That’s why I said that I could live with Papelbon for more $$….if it was less years…..say 3/39.

       
  • Posts: 399 Ian Riccaboni

    Avatar of Ian Riccaboni

    @Chuck – I agree, especially in the case of Lidge. Pat Gillick gave Lidge that extension midseason in 2008 so it wasn’t even give because of the euphoria. Even before the WS win, as a fan there was nobody I wanted more closing games than Lidge. Looking at it that way, there’s no one I’d rather have than Madson.

     
  • Posts: 0 bacardipr05

    We will probably never find out whats the hold up. I bet my Ant Farm it’s the length specifically that 5th. I was expecting about 10 Mill a year for 3 so the money itself isnt too bad. If we can get Papelbon for 3 years 11 mil i would rather take Papelbon.

     
 
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