Turning Negatives into Positives in 2012
Posted by Pat Gallen, Tue, January 17, 2012 08:52 AM | Comments: 45
Analysis, News, Opinion, Posts
Ryan Howard had a tough go last season. (PHOTO AP)
I’m disappointed.
Not in the fact that the Phillies weren’t able to live up to the high expectations of winning a second championship in four years. And not in the fact that Ryan Howard had a down year. Not that Cliff Lee blew a golden opportunity to seal Game 2 of the NLDS or that Ruben Amaro overpaid for Jonathan Papelbon. Actually, I’m a little disappointed in the common fan.
On countless occasions, the fun of a Top Moments list or a player review is tainted with scornful words toward the Phillies. Too often anymore, you the fan deliver a hateful message. That bothers me. (Clearly, I don’t mean every single one of you. We’re all guilty of over-analyzing and caring too much at times. But for the sake of this write-up, I’m going with the common fan-theme).
Let me take you back to 2008. You begged – prayed even – for a World Championship. Hell, it was our time. It had been 28 years and enough was enough. When you sent those little messages to a higher power, the statement usually ended with something like “I’ll never ask for another one again. Just give us this title, God.” You’re prayers were answered as the Phillies ended the city’s streak of futility. Life was good.
One year later, in 2009, expectations were high, but not so stratospheric that they would be impossible to live up to. Phillies fans enjoyed the ride of another World Series trip, and although they lost in six games to the Evil Empire up the road, there was a sense that something special had been concocted and it would be foolish to turn away. That’s when things began to change…
Before the beginning of the 2010 season, vitriol hadn’t yet found it’s way into the everyday life of a Phillies fan. We we’re still living off the high. Sure, from 1984 up until Veterans Stadium shut down, there were some awful teams worthy of your foul-mouthed spew. I’m guilty of it. But following a championship year that was followed up with a near-miss at another hardly deserves much negative reaction. Yet, here we stand.
We stand here spoiled and teetering on the edge of becoming insufferable. They say fame can change a person when they’re no longer a nobody. Well, winning can change the way a fan sees the game. We as Phillies fans now exude a sense of entitlement.
Since the beginning of the 2010 season, our penchant for complaining has become more pronounced. Not only was Ryan Howard’s contract a bad one, it was “the worst ever.” Not only was Jonathan Papelbon overpaid, it was a “disgraceful” job by Ruben Amaro Jr. Enough is enough.
You said it yourself; you’d never complain again. Even if the Phillies had losing season after losing season, they gave you that championship, that parade, that ever-lasting memory. You basically said you would sell your soul for that ring. Now, 102 wins and a tough loss in the NLDS is not enough. Ninety-seven wins and a graceful bow-out against a tough Giants team in the NLCS is not enough. You’ve gone all or nothing. And that’s sad.
I’ve implored you before to rethink it and I’ll ask you again; stop the madness. Stop making yourself mad over a lack of four straight titles. Enjoy what you have here in Philadelphia. Enjoy what the Phillies brass (Amaro included) has given you.
I understand you are a hard-working, paying customer and can vent if you so choose. That’s what this website is here for. But with the negativity should come positivity. And for many, it has become a one way street.
Go back to loving your Phillies like it was 2008 all over again, because you never know when all this goodness will end. It’ll be gratifying and fun. You’ll be happy you did.
Posts: 0 Jay W.
Great post!
Posted: 09:35 AM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 28 kittykat
The biggest negative I have seen after a championship was how the fans turned on MVP Cole Hamels. I still think that if the MVP had been any other player, he would be worshiped in this town for years to come for delivering the title to this championship starved city.
Really good article and very true.
Posted: 09:55 AM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 Jack
I agree… i am guilty of cursing and screaming when it “seems” like some one does not care, but at the end of the day, these Frong Office is trying their best to put together a winner. The players are playing their hearts out all summer for a title. That much alone should be respected.
Posted: 09:55 AM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 Barb Dittmar Ward
Yes, we were spoiled. It’s an ” all or nothing at all” mentality. Last season was a masterful season filled with so many magical highlights. We should remember the season for all that is what worth and not hang on the not so brilliant playoffs. We certainly have a powerful and dedicated team to be proud of. Let’s see what this season brings us. I’m really looking forward to it. Great points and great article– well written!
Posted: 09:57 AM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 Laura
All I have to say is: EXACTLY! Go Phils!
Posted: 10:45 AM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 Moose
I see your point but I do not totally agree with you. When the front office puts a team on the field that is of the phillies caliber every year since 2008, there should be an expectation of world series or bust. So you expect fans to be positive after dismal postseasons since 2008 and 2009? I do not think so, when a team has high expectations and has been winning 5 straight Nl east titles, frustration and negativity is inevitable to set in. I am a very die hard phillies fan and I study the game of baseball. I watch every game of every season and go to 5 or 6 games a year. I was even at game 2 of the 2011 NLDS and was extremely frustrated when Charlie Manuel continued to leave Cliff Lee out in the game, when Cliff was struggling. Charlie needs to grow a pair and start actually managing because the last two postseasons could have been World Series titles if Charlie could start managing and not allow his players to run the team. The other thing that makes me mad and frustrating is how fans basically give up on the team just like they did when I was at game 2 of the NLDS. The fans went quiet for the rest of the game after the game was tied up. Fans need to be loud and there for the team, especially if the phils are still in a game. I was the loudest fan in my section because I am a die hard fan. When I see fans in front of me that are on their cell phones and not paying attention to the game, it makes me extremely mad because they are fake fans. The fake fans do not seem to be interested in the phillies games like I am. So why go to a game if you are not going to back the team 100% through any game?
Posted: 10:50 AM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 1376 Pat Gallen
Moose, I get your points and they’re well taken. But just because expectations are so high doesn’t mean everything has to be an argument. A negative spin doesnt’ have to be put on everything.
The Phillies won 102 games last year and by some of the commenting and banter you’d think they won 75. The way they were playing didnt jibe with what people were feeling.
Posted: 11:16 AM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 Moose
Would you rather have the phillies win 102 games and make a world series appearance or win 102 games and not make a world series appearance? That’s my answer to your point!
Posted: 11:19 AM on January 18, 2012
Posts: 0 Jeff Dowder
I don’t think it’s an “all or nothing” mentality. I just think there’s a growing frustration with personnel moves that don’t seem to be well thought out. We all know what those moves have been, I don’t see an issue with intelligent discussion about them. I’ve been through a 59 win season, so I have no problem at all with rooting for a losing team. It’s just a shame that when the team finally has resources, it allocates them in ways that make little sense.
That being said, I spend a couple of grand on this team every season and if I think the Howard or Papelbon contracts are ridiculous I’ll sure make that known. There are plenty of people here who will defend every move the team makes…surely enough to offset my “negativity”.
Posted: 11:05 AM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 1376 Pat Gallen
I hardly think they’ve been allocated in ways that make little or no sense. Ruben thought that giving Howard a deal before he hit free agency would keep costs down and ensure certainty. The Papelbon deal was a bit head scratching, but he’s a Top3 ninth inning guy. You pay a lot for those. Is it a deal you or I would have made? Probably not. But its not like they are winning and being cheap about it.
That being said there is no need to defend every move.
Posted: 11:18 AM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 523 EricL
Wait, did you just say that Ruben gave Howard that horrendously awful extension to, in part, “keep costs down?”
I’m going to have to go ahead and disagree.
Circle gets the square.
Posted: 04:27 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 566 Brian Sr. of CO
You glazed over one very key word. “thought”. I am in no way defending the move. I hate the move for different reasons then others though. Not for the years or money, but when it way signed and when it begins. I like the fact that the Phillies were actually starting to spend money, not expecting the Phillies to start to throw money around like its candy. My HATRED for this deal was that it was signed in 2010, and would not start until the 2012 season. Now, Howard starts the 5 year contract with 2 declining years, one ankle injury in 2010 AFTER the contract was signed, and a HORRIBLE injury to close out the 2011 season. When Howard signed the contract, the fact is he was still talked about as being top 3 1st basemen in the NL behind Pujols (one of the best to ever live), and Fielder, who for his HUGE waist line, still plays 160 games a season. It is not hard to imagine IF Howard stayed healthy, he would have recieved this contract anyway, but that hits the very root of the problem. Because of when it was signed, now he begins the contract on the Disabled List, and just after surgery. Even comparing Howard to others, his Power is still very good. Howard’s problem is durability, and AVG. Compare the HR’s (SLG) and RBI’s to say maybe Fielder. Fielder and Howard are consistenatly close in HR’s and RBI’s, however Fielder plays meny more innings than Howard. If Howard could play say maybe 155 games, his numbers would be insane, the problem is, he can not. And he will probably be lucky to hit 130 games in 2012.
Posted: 03:13 AM on January 18, 2012
Posts: 0 Jeff Dowder
Pat, I’m not sure how cost certainty (when that cost is literally millions above market value) is so beneficial. I understand that they’re not being cheap, it’s the fact of how they’re allocating resources that is so frustrating. Eventually, with so many “bad” contracts the house of cards collapses. It happens all the time in sports, especially when teams go through that “feel good” period after a championship. They’re afraid to make the tough decisions that comes with letting a few stars move on to other teams.
I’m staying positive though, stop by my tailgate sometime for a complimentary beer & Bubba Burger!
Posted: 12:28 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 795 Manny
Vitrol was there in 2009 (Hamels comes to mind.. and the guy had just [almost single-handedly] won us a WFC). That’s completely unacceptable.
I also hate when people go silent at CBP when things go a bit sour… I’ve felt it a lot, especially after the ’08 championship. We have a great fanbase, don’t get me wrong… but it seems that less die-hards go to games these days (what Moose said). The bar has been raised and we should definitely expect a lot from this team… but BE LOUD GODDAMMIT!
Posted: 11:12 AM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 Don M
We lost to the eventual World Series Champions in each of the past three seasons.. as i’ve said before, sometimes you just need to tip your cap
“So you expect fans to be positive after dismal postseasons since 2008 and 2009? I do not think so, when a team has high expectations and has been winning 5 straight Nl east titles, frustration and negativity is inevitable to set in.”
High Expectations are good… but I think what Pat hints at is that if everyone is such a die-hard fan as we all claim to be … shouldn’t we continue to have these expectations for our team? Expectations are “a thing to look forward to” … so high expectations would mean that we’re looking forward for something positive …
while we didn’t reach the ultimate goal the past few seasons, the negativity surely is starting to become a mainstay around the Phillies this offseason. I can understand some negativity after the playoff loses, but for it to not only set-in, but STAY …. with comments such as “we suck” … “if this trend continues, we won’t make the playoffs this year”.. etc..
That doesn’t sound like something die hard fans would say in my book …
To me, a die hard fan means you back your team at all times, hope for the best …and if you’re fortunate, your team will be the 1 -of- 30 that gets to hoist the trophy at the end of the season …. hopefully that will be us again in 2012 … but if it doesn’t turn out that way … i’ll continue to have those High Hopes for 2013 and beyond ..
I get blasted on here sometimes for being a fan of Rollins, Howard, Hamels when others wanted him gone in 2009 …. these guys WON A WORLD SERIES for us. . . it sometimes seems like that doesn’t mean anything to some fans
Posted: 11:14 AM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 Ryne Duren
Great article Pat! it seems to me, and i speak for myself now. that i’ve become spoiled by their winning! i’ve found myself not as excited watching them, not that i don’t love the team, but a lot of times the past couple of years i expect them to win every game because of the really great (in my eyes) team that they are. Back in 08 every win during the season was a gig yessss, same with 09. but when your expectations are so high, every loss is… they should have done this or that! it’s not really complaining, it’s being spoiled! every win the last couple of years, and there has been more of those than any other team in MLB, and more so last year has been followed by me with a sigh of releif that they didn’t lose opposed to a big yesssss! and that big sigh was followed by” they should have ran over thet other team! because the phils are so good! and they are!
Now i don’t know about you pat, but have you noticed, if you look back to 08-09the white towel waving was so enthusiastic! the last two years it’s getting less and less so. it’s almost like we as fans are waiting for this bubble to break. I’ve been following the phils for a long time going back to the early sixty’s so i’ve seen some pretty horific teams. every win was cherished. i don’t think anybody should complain about their salaries, i mean that’s the nature of baseball today, and all sports. our brightest and best stars over the years have been booed! not because they stink. i think the problem stems from us knowing how good that person is and expecting them to hit a homer every a bat ( schmidt, howard ) or a pitcher to hit 100mph on every pitch (wagner) or pitch like a ws mvp every game (hamels) i could go on and on. but in the end i’m sure we all love the phils and just want them to win. go phillies!! oh by the way my 3 and a half year old grandson now knows most of the NL teams names and they all start with THE STINKIN !!! gotta love it!
Posted: 11:24 AM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 1376 Pat Gallen
Re: “i’ve found myself not as excited watching them, not that i don’t love the team, but a lot of times the past couple of years i expect them to win every game because of the really great (in my eyes) team that they are.”
-It has become almost business-like, thats the approach to this team. How is that fun? Baseball is supposed to be fun.
Posted: 12:20 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 Ryne Duren
yeah you said it! maybe thats the thing with this team. for some reason they win but they’re boring a lot of times. maybe having pence for a whole season will change things up. sure will be fun to watch his goofy but effective style! GO PHILS
Posted: 05:05 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 AB
amen
Posted: 11:41 AM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 BART SHART
Good article. With me, the intensity of my fandom and the hyperbole of my expression of this fandom allows me to even out my emotions on other, more important things. I think that I will always be an off-the-wall Phillies fan. I always have been and it has actually helped me maintain a fairly even temperment on other important issues in life. GO PHILS !!!!
No other team, no other sport excites me like baseball and the Phils.
Posted: 11:41 AM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 Don M
This kinda relates to when Jimmy Rollins rightfully called people out for being Front-Runners …
and when in 2009 or 2010, during a losing streak when Victorino said something back to the fans in CF that were saying how bad they sucked, and booing, etc … because they were losing some games .. and many fans response was “Its my money, i’ll boo if I want to” …
yet those were the same fans that jumped on Rollins for the Front Runner comment … somebody hit the nail on the head that it seems like a lot of Eagles/New-Phillies fans that don’t quite understand how bad we were for so long .. and how great things have been the past few seasons – despite only winning a single World Series in the past 4 years
Posted: 12:29 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 686 betasigmadeltashag
I think it is the word expectations, sometimes expectations take the fun out of the fan. The whole Idea of WS champs or the season is a bust is just an expectation that should not be. I do not care how good you think the team is. Winning throughout the playoffs is a crap shoot every year. Do I want the Phillies to become the Braves and win 15 NL East titles and one WS title. And I am ;not more dissapointed when the Phillies lose in the playoffs, and it depresses me for a week or two but then I can look back and apprectiate the ride the team gave me, and look forward xpring training and the expectations of next year. I live in Vermont and have the Sunday Season ticket package, so do invest a lot of money time and passion in this team, not to mention MLB extra innings so I can see most of the other games. I am emotionaly involved and I get pisse d when they lose in April, but do I think that the season is over if they are swept by the Mets in June. It is harder and harder to enjoy every win with the expectations that surrond this Phillies team But this team plays hard overcomes a lot of injuries to win. At least this team does not fold like those teams with tons of talent but play like losers, they try hard and play the game the right way and that should be enough.
Posted: 12:31 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 1642 Chuck A.
This is a great article and really hits the nail on the head as far as I’m concerned. In a way, I almost wish (not really but sort of) that the Phillies DON’T contend for a few years. Maybe finish at .500 and in third place. Maybe then some of these fans can see just how good this present team is. Make them appreciate what we DO have. Sometimes, we take for granted what is in fact something that’s very hard to attain in the sports world.
Posted: 12:44 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 Bob in Bucks
Philly fans love to boo. They love to complain. Owners don’t spend enough, they spend too much, etc etc. I find ti boorish and stupid but they are paying fans who seem to believe that negativity is what they are supposed to do. If these were Cub fans I would understand it but these days the Phillies put a great product on the field.
Fact is people like to complain. They will complain about not being allowed to complain. It is what they do. I don’t hesitate to call them out but they will not change. Somehow they enjoy it.
Posted: 12:47 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 George
I try to ignore the complainers, because they will show up in any endeavor, any situation, any time, even if there’s nothing to complain about or they use no logic or reasoning to vent their disgust.
Enlightened criticism is an entirely different thing, though. It should be part of the site; it promotes debate.
What I really find objectionable are people’s name-calling nastiness (douche, idiot, moron) toward other posters. Even if you feel Amaro has made bad signings, it’s no reason to denigrate those who might disagree.
Posted: 01:19 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 Greg
Good post. Phils fans have turned into a bunch of whiners. Like the Yanks fans we all cannot stand. ’08 will always be my favorite team. Home grown player base, over-achieving, never say die, come-from-behind Phils were awe-inspiring.
Now everyone wants to be an arm-chair GM.
Posted: 01:32 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 GM
Complain if you want, that’s your right, but stay home if you don’t want to support the team. With the current streak of sold out games, it would be nice to see fans who are actually excited in the stands, there are plenty of supportive fans dreaming of being inside CBP.
Posted: 01:32 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 Don M
I agree with you… and with Greg… that a lot of fans are just like the Yankees fans- they think they’re entitled to see a win every time they go, and they’ll boo if they don’t get it
the problem is… we wouldn’t be able to afford the team on the field the past few years if it wasn’t for those same fans shelling out $30, $50+ a ticket and packing the house every night ..
I used to get to about 10-15 games a year at the Vet and the first few seasons of CBP ….. but now with a house, bills, etc . . . . and the price going up a ton, I just don’t have the extra $$$ anymore, so i make about 5 games a year. While i miss the days of looking in the Inquirer, seeing a great pitching matchup listed, and making plans to attend the game that night (buying cheap seats at the window) .. I wouldn’t trade that for this recent string of success …. and you will RARELY hear me complain about this organization … they’ve given me some of the best sports seasons of my life … and the first -and only- Championship Parade I ever attended!
Posted: 02:02 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 1642 Chuck A.
So are we becoming the “Yankees of the National League” ?? No Philly fan would want to see or hear that, but I’m afraid to the rest of the country , that’s how we are starting to be perceived. Think about it Philly fans (of ANY sport) ….. is that how you want to be thought of and talked about?
Posted: 02:52 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 Malcolm
Every time I have voiced an opinion like this in the comment section over the years, it has been literally shot down verbally. What we have here is a championship caliber team, the best that our franchise has ever seen, but yet people remain far too critical over players, Amaro and payroll. I love this post, and it is one of the reasons why I have kept coming back. I agree with everyone in the comment section. Thank you.
Don’t care we overpaid for Papelbon, wish we had kept Madson though. I believe he is the all-time leader in games appeared for Phillies relievers and he would have had a good shot at overtaking Jose Mesa for the saves record. Those two measures certainly would have placed Madson as probably the greatest reliever in Phillies history. But, alas… not to be. That is one of the finer things that high payroll teams can afford, maintaining team identity by having the same core group of players stick around. Well, that’s baseball for some and not for others, and as a business, Madson probably made the right decision to test the market again next year.
I want to know what people would think if Prince signs with The Nats and Cespedes signs with the Marlins and he turns out to be any good. Would the confidence still be here? I bet it would be, but for some, it may need to be challenged. Here’s to a healthy and confident 2012 Phillies team.
Posted: 03:20 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 TheDipsy
I look at my team, and while the team is good, maybe even great, there are the little stupid things that I, as a common person, would have the good sense not to do. Why wouldn’t the FO or Charlie know the same things:
1. Signing Jamie Moyer;
2. Signing Raul Ibanez;
3. Signing John Papelbon;
4. Batting Jimmy leadoff;
5. Letting Blanton pitch a WS game instead of Halliday;
6. Letting Ryan Howard swing 3-0;
7. Not hitting and running;
8. Not bunting….ever.
RAJ has done good things but the above are examples of things that the most elementary, childish baseball mind would have known to do better. And I’m no Monday morning QB. After each of the above occurred I shouted and cursed with frustration. You can’t make mistakes, or dig your heels in with a flawed offensive strategy, and win. see: EAGLES. Philadelphia.
We see things that are wrong that don’t get fixed. That’s why I get pissed and grumble. Go Phils!
The Dipsy
Posted: 03:47 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 George
I disagree that ALL of these things are “examples of things that the most elementary, childish baseball mind would have known to do better.” For instance, batting Rollins lead-off sounds stupid only until you look at the Phils’ other options, and not playing hit and run when there’s no one on the team with the great bat control that requires, or signing a left fielder who was a definite upgrade to the player they let go.
It’s awfully easy to gripe about things that don’t appear to get fixed, but some things DO get addressed which simply don’t work out.
And, really, why such negativity over those small issues when EVERY ML team has them to some degree(usually to a degree higher than the Phils)? The big moves have certainly paid off; not very many teams go to the playoffs for five straight years.
Posted: 04:43 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 566 Brian Sr. of CO
Dipsy, you can not possibly blame RAJ for
4. Batting Jimmy leadoff; (unless of course it was a stipulation in the contract).
5. Letting Blanton pitch a WS game instead of Halliday;
6. Letting Ryan Howard swing 3-0;
7. Not hitting and running;
8. Not bunting….ever.
So of your list, RAJ made 3 bad decisions (which I do not even agree with), 4-8. That would be the Manager. Unless of course you want a micro managing GM who makes all the decisions. (see the Oakland Raiders). You can not say you know as much about baseball as you say you do, then blame the GM for 4-8. I have read enough on here that you know better than to think the GM of a successful baseball franchise call the shot of batting order, batting strategy, and who pitches in what game.
Not to mention, can you say Papelbon is a mistake? He hasnt even pitched in a freaking game yet. If Papelbon suddenly goes from a top 3 closer in the league, to a 4+ ERA, bottom tier guy, then yes, but if he leads the NL in Save percentage, and saves for the druation of his contract, is it then a mistake? I am not saying he will do it. The point it, you can not say it was a mistake before he has ever pitched a game. Where is Howards contract on this one? Signing Howard to a 5 year extension in 2010 which doesnt even begin until the 2012 season…That should be #1. Chances are, if they had waited, they would not have re-signed for that amount of money, and that is based on injuries. I also can not say Moyer was a big mistake. Mistake? Maybe, based solely on over statistics, not look at clubhouse presense, teaching other pitchers, and progressing and imrpoving them, but to list that as #1 mistake? LOL. I whole heartedely disagree with it being his biggest mistake. That honor goes to the Howard contract.
Posted: 03:29 AM on January 18, 2012
Posts: 1642 Chuck A.
Well, Dipsy, all great minds make big mistakes. But their successes far outweigh their faults. Think of all the great leaders in history and you can find plenty of examples. Maybe Ruben Amaro is no different (although I would certainly not put him in the same category as Churchhill or Washington…but you get my point)
Posted: 04:14 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 Don M
Agree 100% about Jamie Moyer ….
Disagree 99% about Raul Ibanez …. of the guys available, he was the best out there … it took $10 M -per to sign him because that’s what Free Agents cost …
Ideally, the farm would be stocked with players that are all All-Stars ..and we could constantly replenish the team from within .. but that’s not reality .. so sometimes you have to make moves- and to land players you want .. you need to entice them to choose your team over another = Overpaying Free Agents …which is pretty much what Free Agency is all about . There were comments earlier this offseason that somebody “would never sign a Free Agent over the age of 31″ …. which failed to comprehend that MANY/MOST players are about that age when they first reach Free Agency . . .give me the best players available .. not the youngest
Posted: 04:19 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 TheDipsy
Wait a second….Pat wants to know why people get pissed. I gave him reasons. Overall, I am very satisfied with my team and I support them no matter what, but when an article asks me “why the long face, doggie?”, I’ll give him some reasons. Jimmy batting leadoff………forever???????? TRADE FOR A LEADOFF HITTER! Shit. They’ve had years to do it and it hurts the offense because he sucks there. Don M – beloved and respected poster – Ibanez was a mistake from jump. I don’t care who else was bidding for him. If Ruben thought he was the best OF of the free agent crop, that’s great, but when he heard the price tag, he should of said “too rich for me blood, maybe I’ll get the third best guy and pay a lot less”
Secondly, it is the “raison d’etre” of a message board to serve as an outlet to bitch. Thats just the way it is. When people are happy, they whistle and walk down the street. When they’re angry….they write on blogs and message boards. It is the outlet for the disenchanted, poor and hungry huddled masses of fandom. Except for me I think. :).
The Dipsy
Posted: 05:15 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 Don M
Ibanez was better than the other available players … and $10 M isn’t/wasn’t too rich for the Phillies blood . . . . . the only player that seemingly would have been better to fill that spot is ………………..Bobby Abreu- who for various reasons was obviously not returning here
and…
I don’t think Pat asked WHY people were negative … he was saying that people should stop complaining SO OFTEN. Sure we all vent about players, plays, games, missed calls, etc . . . but some people seem to just continually bash everything about this organization like we were the Pirates or something
Posted: 05:52 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 KevinB
I was 11 years old when the Phillies collapsed in 1964 and I still remember the bitter disappointment. I realize that is is so illogical to care about a bunch of millionares playing a game but I do.
But through all the years of rooting for the Phillies, 2008 was absolutely the most fun and the most memorable for me. I wish everyone would just appreciate the fact that you have a chance to buy a ticket and enjoy the show while our team is still having great seasons. I’m stuck living out of state watching the games on MLB.com.
Posted: 05:39 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 The man
Pat Gallen, YOU disappoint ME! Where’s Tim Malcolm????
Posted: 06:43 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 schmenkman
“When the front office puts a team on the field that is of the phillies caliber every year since 2008, there should be an expectation of world series or bust. So you expect fans to be positive after dismal postseasons since 2008 and 2009? I do not think so, when a team has high expectations and has been winning 5 straight Nl east titles, frustration and negativity is inevitable to set in. I am a very die hard phillies fan and I study the game of baseball.”
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Moose: talk about frustrating — it’s this viewpoint that I find very frustrating: “there should be an expectation of world series or bust.”
Huh? A 102-win team is not that different from a 90-win team. Applied to a 5-game series, it’s the difference between 3.15 wins and 2.78 wins. So it’s no wonder that every short series is a crapshoot which is determined by who happens to get hot or cold, or who gets the bounce, or who gets the call.
Look at some other successful teams’ last 5 playoff appearances:
Braves (last 10 years): 0 WS appearances, 0 WS wins
Red Sox (last 8 years): 2 WS appearances, 2 WS wins
Cardinals (last 8 years): 3 WS appearances, 2 WS wins
Yankees (last 6 years): 1 WS appearance, 1 WS win
Giants (last 15 years): 2 WS appearances, 1 WS win
Angels (last 8 years): 0 WS appearances, 0 WS wins
Dodgers (last 16 years): 0 WS appearances, 0 WS wins
Rangers (last 16 years): 2 WS appearances, 0 WS wins
Phillies (last 5 years): 2 WS appearances, 1 WS win
Even having the best record is no guarantee: since the new format began in 1995, the team with the best record in the regular season has won the WS 3 out of 17 years (18%)
The Phillies are neither one of the best, nor one of the worst in capitalizing on their playoff chances. Why would anyone just assume that they should do better than they have?
Posted: 09:11 PM on January 17, 2012
Posts: 0 Moose
My viewpoint is frustrating? All I was saying is when there is a team of superstars on the field like the phillies, or on the court like the Miami Heat, or on the field like the Philadelphia Eagles this past season, there is a sense that they should all win championships in their respective sports. If the cards have been dealt, winning caliber teams put together, and they fail to deliver a title in the given season, then it is frustrating and disappointing. If you don’t understand my point then you are an ignorant, close-minded fool!
Posted: 11:32 AM on January 18, 2012
Posts: 566 Brian Sr. of CO
Great article! not to mention, great post schmenkman. The thing that bothers me, is that regardless of what happens, RAJ is the root of all evel with some fans. The Phillies can win the NL East the next 3 years, win 1 WS again, take a year off, then win 5 more NL East titles in a row, and you know as well as I do, the Ruin Tomorrow Jr crowd will be saying “I told you so”. Hell, they could win the NL East AND the World Series for the 3 years, and if they lose the NLDS in 4 years, even if they won 3 straight WS, that same crowd will come back with their baseless ranting about how horrible RAJ is based on a few mediocre contracts (Ibanez, and a few others), a questionable contract (Paplebon, better classified as yet to be determined), and a HORRIBLE contract (Howard), without looking at the good moves…Halladay, Lee, Oswalt, Pence and hell even Pedro Martinez…He makes good and bad moves. The good outweighs the bad IMO. Unless you combine Bad, mediocre, and yet to be determined contracts, then those outweight the good.
I still find it funny that any TRUE PHILLIES PHAN can have such a negative outlook if they had lived through so many HORRIBLE YEARS. Sure, I question things, and I have gotten a bit spoiled in the FIVE years of 5 straight NL East titles, but would you rather have the team from mid ’80s up to 2007 (exlcuding 1993)? Not I!
Posted: 03:43 AM on January 18, 2012
Posts: 0 Ryne Duren
in my eyes Brian Sr they must be making moves that work! if they weren’t then their wins would not be increasing every year! i mean wow what other team in history can say each year for what the last 3-4 we’ve increased the win total and the last 2 led all of MLB
Posted: 10:20 AM on January 18, 2012
Posts: 0 Fred
That is why I keep my expectations low every year…I expect the Phillis to win the East… any thing else on top of that is gravy on the potatoes :D
Posted: 05:19 AM on January 18, 2012
Posts: 0 Adrian M.
Pat, thank you so much for posting this. It definitely needed to be said. So many times over the last three years, I’ve tried so hard to avoid taking that hypocritical turn of complaining over every loss and every missed opportunity because I said in 2008 that I never needed to see the Phillies win another World Series. What most fans don’t realize is that no matter how good your team is over the course of the regular season, the chances of winning it all are the same every year: 1 in 8. I consider 2011 to be my best season as a fan because I got to go to 6 games, more than any other year. The Phillies won all 6, including the division clincher over the Cardinals on Sept. 17. What more could a fan ask for?
Posted: 06:45 PM on January 19, 2012