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Halladay Out 6-8 Weeks with Lat Strain

Posted by Pat Gallen, Tue, May 29, 2012 04:34 PM | Comments: 40
Analysis, News, Opinion, Posts

Doc hits the DL. (AP)

The man, unfortunately, is human.

Roy Halladay is not a robot as we once thought. The Phillies announced that the right-hander will hit the disabled list with a Grade 1/2 strain of his latissimus dorsi; he’ll miss 6-8 weeks. Erik Kratz was recalled from Triple-A Lehigh Valley as the immediate corresponding move.

Who knows what caused the issue, however, at this point surgery is not needed, which is great news. The bad (awful, terrible) news is that the Phillies will miss their workhorse for an extended period. Cole Hamels and Cliff Lee will have to pick up the slack, and that Kyle Kendrick we saw in St. Louis will have to become the norm.

Injuries are common for pitchers, but not this one. Halladay has started 31 games or more in each of the last six seasons.

This season, Halladay clearly was not himself, as he basically willed his way to a 4-5 record with a 3.96 ERA. Can the Phillies stay in the hunt and get a healthy Halladay back in early August? We shall see. But for now, this is a crushing blow in what’s turning out to be a rocky season for the Phillies.

Avatar of Pat Gallen

About Pat Gallen

Pat Gallen has written 1709 articles on Phillies Nation.

Pat is Editor-in-Chief of Phillies Nation. He also covers the Phils for 97.5 FM in Philly.

 
 
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    BALLS!

     
    • Posts: 1135 EricL

      Avatar of EricL

      While it’s never great to lose your ace for 2-3 months, if you consider all of the possible issues that can cause generalized shoulder pain in a pitcher, a strain is one of the better outcomes.

      The worst case scenario here would have been a labrum tear or rotator cuff injury, which are both potentially career ending. All possibilities considered, the Phils and Halladay lucked out here.

       
  • Posts: 0 Typical Fan

    This is Amaro’s fault, he should’ve traded Halladay while he still had value

     
    • Posts: 1135 EricL

      Avatar of EricL

      lol

       
    • Posts: 0 Dave P

      Loving the name, “typical fan”. xd

       
  • Posts: 0 Manny

    This blows. But it’s not the worst case scenario. If he comes back in mid-late July, as scheduled, we should be ok. Worley should be back soon and we’ll still have a solid rotation. Can’t wait to see the full team with Roy, Chase, and Ryan later this summer.

    Everything is set up for a challenging, entertaining end of the season. Think 2007 ;)

     
    • Posts: 0 loupossehl

      There’s a saying in Texas or thereabouts to the effect that, “That dog won’t hunt anymore.”

      Leave out the “Chase”, and I agree.

       
    • Posts: 0 Andrew from Harrisburg

      Think 2007? Adam Eaton is coming back??? NOOOOOOOOOOO!

       
    • Posts: 0 c schreiber

      REALLY!!!! Koolaid drinker.

       
  • Posts: 0 brooks

    It would be no less a miracle if the Phils were to take the division at this point. Doc/Worley/Howard would all have to reappear with guns blazing. Jimmy has to come to life, Mayberry has to show some heart –
    It maybe just too much

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    And MLBTR is saying Oswalt an Rangers agreed to a deal about an hour ago

     
    • Posts: 1135 EricL

      Avatar of EricL

      Yeah, although he wouldn’t be ready by the time Worley’s back anyway, so he’d have to displace Kendrick in the rotation, which is…either a huge upgrade or a very expensive small upgrade depending upon the versions of Oswalt and Kendrick that show up on any particular day.

       
  • Posts: 0 Jeff

    Roy is a piece of garbage to lie and day he is not hurt. You f u c.

    Piece of s h it

     
  • Posts: 0 Dave P

    I closed my eyes, covered my ears, and shouted “LALALALALA” when my yankees fan roommate said that Doc didn’t look as dominant this year.

    Now with this happening…gah.

     
  • Posts: 3085 Chuck A.

    Avatar of Chuck A.

    So does anybody else on here want to jump on the ridiculous “trade Cole Hamels” bandwagon?

     
    • Posts: 1435 Pat Gallen

      Avatar of Pat Gallen

      There is plenty of room still on the “Sign Cole Hamels right the eff now” bandwagon.

       
      • Posts: 0 c schreiber

        Only wagon that males sense, but how? Now that Doc’s hurt he’s untradeable.

         
  • Posts: 0 quest

    Look at it this way. Doc gets time off to get healthy and comes back full strength for the stretch run. Someone will take over his rotation spot and will just have to be average. Its not like Doc was 9-0 and got hurt with the position the Phillies are in. He has been pitching poorly and not giving the team the best chances to win.

     
  • Posts: 0 barry

    this sucks the phillies need doc to when the nl east hopefully he comes back stronger than ever

     
  • Posts: 0 quest

    P.S. – Sign Hamels now!!!

     
  • Posts: 0 TheDipsy

    If Cole thinks he can get 7/175 if he waits, how much money do you think he would ask the Phils for to forego that payday?

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 5528 Lefty

    Avatar of Lefty

    I think we may have caught a break here. A lat can heal on it’s own. A 35 year old lat maybe a little slower than we all want, but it will heal.

    To me, this is clear evidence of why you do NOT sign pitchers to long term contracts.

    Sorry guys, I think Cole is great, and I know how much many of you admire his work, but I can’t pretend to feel differently than I do. If he wants more than 3 years, I’d have to let him walk. It was the Pat Gillick edict, and IMO it’s the right way to go.

     
    • Posts: 0 George

      Really, now! Halladay will miss some time, almost as much as a ton of position players who have been signed long term.

      And I have to laugh at that “edict,” because by signing Adam Eaton for three years, and trading a really good prospect for that already injured guy from the White Sox, Gillick pretty much proved how much he knew about a pitcher’s durability.

       
    • Posts: 0 George

      If pitchers are only good for three years, maybe they should all be non-tendered when they reach their arbitration years.

       
    • Posts: 5528 Lefty

      Avatar of Lefty

      Why do you twist things so? We are not talking about a pitcher in his arbitration years, we’re talking about a 27 year old who is looking for a reported 7 year contract. Do the math! You want to laugh at the successful career of one of baseball’s top executives because of one or two bad moves? okay, it’s your right.

      I expressed my opinion that signing pitchers to long term contracts is a poor business decision, I also noted that I knew it would not be popular and expressed empathy to the fans who undoubtedly will feel differently. It was my opinion George, hence the use of “IMO” in the original comment.

      If you feel differently you have every right to, but unlike you, I don’t purposely try to discredit you with “Really now!” or “And I have to laugh”. What is the purpose of these incendiary comments? Are you deliberately trying to start a fire? Is it internet supremacy you seek? It’s okay with me. You got it, man, you’re the big winner. Your the king of the internet, okay?

      By the way, are you even capable of forming your own opinion?, or are you just here to mock others? I admit that I began ignoring most of your comments a long time ago, so I wouldn’t know. Do you have a single original or constructive thought to provide or are you just here to mock others and correct gramar?

      What would you offer Cole Hamels? Would you be a seller if the team’s record warrants it at the deadline as RA jr. has suggest he might be? Is there any deal that would make sense for Hamels or should we just take the compensatory picks? Who would you consider a proper trsde for a rental? Do you take a stand on anything on your own? Do you have anything to offer this board, except for being disagreeable to everyone else?

       
      • Posts: 0 George

        I didn’t twist what you said, but I only indicated with some sarcasm how silly I believe it to be. A 6-8 week injury isn’t exactly a good reason to not sign a pitcher; position players miss that amount of time constantly, as evidenced by more than one Phils player. If you can’t sign a pitcher long term, then perhaps you shouldn’t sign a second baseman or an outfielder, either.

        That edict I find laughable is not your idea, but was Pat Gillick’s, so that comment wasn’t aimed at you, and you’re pretty sensitive and maybe even paranoid if you think it was. Gillick was good, but I also feel he made one heckuva lot of mistakes, and shot himself in the foot sometimes with his rigidity. Maybe that no long-term kind of thinking worked a few years back when Gillick was doing basically a good job, but it won’t work now. There’s not an ace alive right now who will go for less than long term, so if you’re not willing to sign someone for more than three years, you’re going to wind up with a rotation of rookies and Blantons. You might as well non-tender when arbitration rolls around, because your rookie ace is still going to cost, might get injured in his third arb year, and will be gone soon anyway because you won’t sign him long term. My point is, three years won’t work IN ANY CASE.

        It’s pretty obvious to me that you have no grasp of sarcasm and satire by taking such a defensive position. You’re even apologetic about your own opinions, which at least l am not. I find that some of the comments on this site are so ill-informed and badly reasoned that the only way to respond is with a sarcastic remark. That’s just my nature. And as far as my not having any original thoughts, you have no right to say anything, because as you yourself said, “I admit that I began ignoring most of your comments a long time ago, so I wouldn’t know.”

        As far as Hamels is concerned: If you want him to pitch for your team, you make a legitimate offer. Three years is not legitimate, and he or anyone else would be insulted. A legit offer for an elite pitcher these days is at least five years, maybe with an option for more. It’s a process, and the final number and the final length has to be within budget, but from all indications, the Phils have quite a bit of money. You have to bear in mind that if Hamels walks, he has to be replaced, and any real talent costs a bit, also. I’m sure even you won’t want a rotation of second rate arms. Were I advising on this thing, I’d also point out that Halladay isn’t getting younger and has only one option year remaining, that most all the minor league guys are a few seasons away, that Blanton’s money will be available, and that if you’ve built your team around pitching, it would be difficult to suddenly change directions given the lack of position players in your own system. If it comes down to seven years for Hamels, (I’m not sure it will) have him physically evaluated, and if he passes, sign him (for as much as you can afford), unless someone else really good suddenly becomes available cheap.

         
      • Posts: 3085 Chuck A.

        Avatar of Chuck A.

        George – While I enthusiastically agree with you concerning signing “ace” pitchers to long-term contracts in this day and age of MLB, I do have to side with Lefty by saying that you do tend to be contstantly looking for some sort of fight on here. It’s not just Lefty or me but other commentors as well that you seem to be always directing your criticism towards. I can be sarcastic at times, too, so I appreciate that in your nature. But, sometimes you go overboard with it and then it comes across as “twisting things” as Lefty alluded to. I think you have a sharp mind and a sound sense of the game of baseball. A lot of what you say makes sense. But always turning everything into some kind of debate all the time gets a bit tiresome and old.

        This is a great place to come and share thoughts and ideas about baseball and, specifically, the Phillies. There’s a nice group of us that comment regularly on here (as in just about every day). Can’t we all try to get along and be friends since we “see” each other so much? Let’s leave the fight-picking and the silly comments and rebuttals to the trolls and the idiots that also come on this site

         
      • Posts: 0 George

        Just a few other things: you seem to be awfully critical, yourself, and awfully disagreeable for someone who ignores another’s comments. If I didn’t take a stand, I would have no reason to respond to others, and I believe that if you actually read my remarks, you would realize that by responding I am offering my own take on things.

        You happen to be one of the commenters here who I disagree with more often than not. If it’s “incendiary” to disagree, so be it. That’s my right, and it’s my right to do so in my own style. Terms of incredulity, like “Really now” are part and parcel of my disagreement, because they immediately say that I think your thoughts and opinions are ridiculous. It’s your opinion, sure, but to me, it’s an insipid one, based on the poor example of a relatively minor injury to a player who happens to have signed what is, in this day and age, a short-term contract. Give me some better evidence, and I wouldn’t be so harsh. (There is better evidence you could use, like Hampton or Dreifort.)

        Also, what’s the crap about “correcting grammar?” I’ve commented on that maybe a few times on one or two posts, but only when those posts were absolutely rife with mistakes, almost to the point of being unreadable. I also haven’t actually tried to correct anything, but have merely pointed out that improvements should be made. If you actually looked, you’d find that I’m not the only one who did so. Maybe you think it’s it’s fine to be illiterate, but I don’t like garbage writing. THAT’S MY OPINION, and I’ve as much right to it as you have to your three-measly-years Hamels proposal.

         
      • Posts: 0 George

        This is in response to Chuck A.:

        I’m sorry if I appear to some to be picking fights, but I also feel that that is largely a matter of interpretation. I tend to disagree with some people more than others, and I do have a tendency to word things in a forceful manner. That, to me, is expression, not deliberate instigation.

        However, I also know that many of my comments have been positive. There have been times, too, when my own comments have been twisted, as you and Lefty put it, and have sparked an uncalled for outrage. I think there’s evidence that something as simple as “Utley will be back” has resulted in name-calling, and arguments bordering on threats. In such inflammatory cases, I find it best to avoid the subject.

        If true discussion is the intent, then some things have to be debated, and in any debate, the discourse can get lively. I try never to denigrate the actual person, but only his ideas. Sometimes I’ve gone a little too far, but hasn’t everyone? There are people here referring to others as Kool-Aid drinkers, @ssholes, and other terms of endearment. They aren’t trolls, either. At least I don’t sink to that level, and if I’ve truly hurt anyone, I am sorry.

        You make the site sound like we shouldn’t debate, but “to share thoughts” carries with it the possibility of disagreement. It would be a dull place without that.

         
      • Posts: 5528 Lefty

        Avatar of Lefty

        George, it isn’t the fact that you disagree that I have a problem with. It’s that you are so disagreeable and inflammatory when you do. There’s a difference, and you even admit it to knowing it. It’s unnecessary, unpleasant and unwelcome. That”s not what lively debate is about.

        Also, where in this statement did I say anything about the edict of Pat Gillick being my idea? “You want to laugh at the successful career of one of baseball’s top executives because of one or two bad moves? okay, it’s your right.” I took no offense to that. I take offense to the contentious way you responded to that, as well as many other untoward remarks.

        And did you really think that I didn’t know prior to writing the comment that 99% of the people would hate it and disagree? I’m attempting to show that there is a different way to do things, that you can go out of the box, and that the madness has to stop somewhere because the LT threshold set forth in the new MLB CBA says so.

        Now, please open your mind for just a moment, I’ve been promoting this idea for months, and now EricL has come aboard with the idea too. Offer Cole the largest salary per year ever paid to a pitcher- for 3 years. That’s not an insult, that’s a request that the athlete take some responsibility for his health, or lack thereof. In that way you are not handcuffing your franchise to a Barry Zito situation, or the others you mentioned. The L.T. is not going away in the next ten years per the new CBA (I think it was ten years? May be off on that) If Cole Hamels is healthy in three years, offer him three more at – again whatever the highest paid pitcher is making. As EricL pointed out quite correctly, that amount of money would exceed by far whatever 7 year deal he might accept now. None of us know for certain, but maybe years are the actual hold up.

        If you still disagree, that’s fine, I don’t care if you ever agree with me, but for god’s sake try to discipline “your nature” to discussing things in a manner that is not insulting, sarcastic or a willful effort to discredit people. We can debate back and forth here without that trash. Yes there are exceptions on here, we all know who they are, but you are better than that. Express yourself all you want, but flex your muscles elsewhere.

        And for the umpteenth time, if you don’t like what you are reading, why in the world would you keep reading it?

         
  • Posts: 0 Jeff Dowder

    …and everyone who called Ken Rosenthal an idiot in spring training sent their apologies today…

     
    • Posts: 0 George

      Ken Rosenthal may have been on to something this time, but that still doesn’t mean he isn’t an idiot.

       
      • Posts: 0 Ryne Duren

        the only thing rosenthal was on was the box he stands on to interview the players! and yes he’s still and idiot just a really really short idiot.

         
  • Avatar of "Big Ed" Delahanty

    Lets try out some of our minor leaguer starters. All they have to do is pitch average; they don’t have to be Grover Cleveland Alexander. Christ, they are probably better than Blanton is right now.

     
    • Posts: 0 Ryne Duren

      agreed 100 % big ed!my first thought was dave bush. i was flipping channels last night watching LHV play gwinnet and he pitched ok till he gave up 3 runs LHV was up 8-3 when i stopped watching. then this morning i read on the net that schwimmer blew the game! he gave up 6 runs and they lost 9-8! whew. i think tyler cloyd is the answer. he’s pitched outstanding at AA andAAA this year 7-1 era under 2 give him a shot! the phils baffle me sometime they bring up kratz and not a pitcher. maybe they know something we don’t!

       
  • Posts: 0 betasigmadeltashag

    This does suck a little, but is not devistating, if Vance can come back in a week or so and pitch close to what he did last year. the Phillies do not need a 5th starter until June 6th I think. And the one thing the Phillies are suppose to have in the minors is pitching. So you start the shuttle to Leigh Valley and see if you can find someone to give you 6-7 innings 3-4 runs a game. And hope that the offense wakes up those games. Most teams do not have 1 dominant starter and despite his record the Phillies still have 2 with Lee and Cole, and if you can get 1 out three good starts from KK and Big Joe then they still can be fine. Remember you do not have to win your division to make the playoffs, and with the Phillies pitching if healthy in September the extra play in game should not be a problem. so you have to throw Cole or Dock or Lee in that wild card game. If you win than which ever one starts does not pitch until game 3 of the Division Series. Say Doc gets healthy and he has to go that one game wild card game, then it would be Cole/Lee/Doc in the playoffs with Worley or KK or Big Joe which everone is a better match up or pitching better as your fourth starter. Even if you have to go to one of the big three in the last game of the year to make the wild card, you have Vance pitching game two if you can win the wild card game.
    The one big IF is Vance. If he can stay healthy the Phillies still have a big 3 they can run our there if not they still have two aces which is more then most teams.
    I hate to see Doc miss time especially a month or two. But in the big picture(pitcher) Maybe this rest will help in the long run even into next year.

     
  • Posts: 64 LCMRSalazar85

    Avatar of LCMRSalazar85

    Too many if’s ‘beta’. The division’s too good for if’s this year.

     
  • Posts: 0 c schreiber

    You idiot they brought up Kraatz because Chooch is hurt. A pitcher will probably come up when Chooch goes on the DL.

     
  • Posts: 0 Empower Network Malaysia

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  • Posts: 0 Don M

    some Craziness in the comments above …. there tends to be a lot of venom spewed around here anytime someone gets injured, or the Phillies lose a few games . . .

    Truth of the matter is that an injury to a pitcher IS that much more significant that one to a position player . . . a position player, batter, doesn’t not have one significant body part that will neccessarily determine his ability to play this game or not . . . with Pitchers, their entire career rests on the arm (shoulder, elbow) that they throw with. .

    So to bet 7-years, of a guaranteed contract is that much riskier with a pitcher, than a position player . . . . . That said, I see Hamels, and Hamilton both as VERY RISKY signings – for different reasons, though I think both will get something close to 6 years – because teams are willing to pay top dollar for top players- even if they don’t produce for the entire length of their contracts

     
 
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