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The Braves Sweep Will Shape Deadline Activity

Posted by Eric Seidman, Sun, July 29, 2012 05:37 PM | Comments: 56
2012 Game Recaps

The Phillies entered this weekend’s series with the Braves fresh off of their first sweep of the season. While they didn’t fire on all cylinders against the Brewers — they won on three late-inning comebacks — the team showed signs of life. It played more like squads from years past than the disappointing 2012 version. The sweep helped them stay somewhat relevant in the playoff picture, as a healthy lineup with Halladay returned to the rotation had the potential to do some damage over the next two months.

While there truly isn’t precedent for a team this far under .500, this late in the season, to surge back and grab a playoff berth, it’s also hard to imagine many instances where a team this talented on paper played so sluggishly for three or four months.

Then this series happened. The Phillies were sluggish in the crucial series opener, fell flat again on Saturday night and struggled to do anything positive this afternoon. The result was a three-game sweep that effectively negated everything they did in the Brewers series and put the team back at the proverbial square one. Roy Halladay pitched better than he did in his previous start, but didn’t look Doc-esque, and the offense struggled to capitalize on the seven hits they recorded against Tim Hudson. It was an extremely disappointing series on all fronts: offense, defense and pitching.

I tend to avoid absolutes whenever possible, but this sweep sure seems like the nail in the coffin for the Phillies playoff hopes. And though that is initially disappointing, there is a positive for those subscribing to the glass half-full theory: now that the team is effectively out of it, Ruben Amaro doesn’t have to remain in limbo with regards to the trade deadline.

When the Phillies were still on the verge of being “in it” it was tougher to justify trading certain players. But now? Move anyone that could bring something of future value back, whether that surfaces in the form of salary relief, prospects, or both. If someone wants to pay Hunter Pence the rest of the season and trade a prospect or two, the Phillies should act on it. He’ll provide short-term salary relief as the Phils won’t be paying his approximate $13-$14 million salary next year, and Domonic Brown could immediately start playing on an everyday basis. Perhaps with less pressure, the Phillies will give him the playing time he needs without jerking him around in the thick of a playoff race.

If a team decides to trade a young, talented, team-controlled reliever and a prospect for Victorino, and no other offers are on the table, it makes some sense to really consider that deal. Given the new collective bargaining agreement, the Phillies would only get draft pick compensation if they made a qualifying offer to Victorino in the vicinity of $12-$13 million for next season. Given his relatively subpar season, it’s doubtful that Shane would get anything close to that over one year on the market. And if there is a risk that he would accept the qualifying offer, the Phillies need to decide whether or not they are okay paying him that amount next season. A centerfielder of his track record at $13 million could be a steal, but the Phillies may have their eyes set on using that money elsewhere. If they don’t want to risk paying him $13 million, trading him now and avoiding the situation is the way to go.

Juan Pierre could also help a playoff contender as a pinch-runner and platoon outfielder. He probably won’t hit like this the entire season, but he makes next-to-nothing and still has skills both at the plate and on the bases. Heck, even Ty Wigginton might be attractive to a contending team in a pinch-hitting and spot start capacity.

Joe Blanton has the lowest BB/9 in the National League and a terrific K/BB ratio. Since June 25, he has made six starts with a 3.61 ERA, 6 walks and 41 strikeouts. That’s an arbitrary time period, sure, but it shows that he his results have matched his peripherals recently and that he just might be in the progress of regressing. He is still prone to serving up home runs, but some team is going to pry him from the Phillies hands.

The Phillies are in a strange spot in that they have numerous valuable assets yet have struggled to regularly win games this season. They still have enough talent to compete in 2013, but the allocation of resources could use some retooling. Getting out from under Pence’s contract and potentially getting a decent return on Victorino could go a long way towards shaping the roster next season. Getting swept by the Braves stinks, as it’s always tough when a team is out of it before reaching the trade deadline. However, in this case, I’m choosing to view it as a blessing in disguise, as it gives Amaro more reason to act smartly this week by selling assets instead of trying to put lipstick on a pig of a 2012 campaign.

Avatar of Eric Seidman

About Eric Seidman

Eric Seidman has written 64 articles on Phillies Nation.

Eric offers his unique analytical perspective to Phillies Nation and is a regular contributor on FanGraphs.com.

 
 
  • Posts: 0 BART SHART

    Amaro might make some moves but I believe that nothing substantial will occur. Maybe some chicken-sh!t moves involving Blanton and Pierre and maybe Victorino, but no blockbusters involving Rollins, Lee or Pence. Little stuff to keep the fanbase happy. His balls are getting smaller and smaller and his credibility is waning. Amaro’s , that is.

     
  • Posts: 0 Double Trouble Del

    I have a hard time believing that anyone will bring back anything in return because I don’t have faith in the Phillies being able to pick pocket another organization’s talent. That being said, the danger of offering any of our aging position players arbitration is too frightening to hang on to the Victorinos and Pences so off they go. Another thing, I don’t want to hear about a bullpen piece coming back in return. Bullpen pieces by and large have fluctuating success from year to year- case in point Chad Qualls who had a decent 2011 and sucked for us and Chad Durbin who the Phillies didn’t want to sign but who just shut them down for Atlanta. Get me single A prospects and I’ll just have to hope for the best.

     
  • Posts: 0 TheDipsy

    Blanton, Pierre, Vic, Wiggy are must moves. I can see your theory on Pence. Why would a qualifying offer to Vic have to be in the $12-$13m range? I would never offer him that because he might take it.

    The Dipsy

     
    • Posts: 146 Eric Seidman

      Avatar of Eric Seidman

      The qualifying offer is the average of the top 125 salaries from the prior year, which is about 12-13 mil.

       
      • Posts: 0 hk

        Eric,

        Why not give Shane a qualifying offer? Despite a low BABIP and a low ISO – one or both of which may have been caused by the hand injury – he’s going to end the season being worth ~3.5 fWAR unless they shut him down due to his defense and base-running. If they can’t get a quality return for him in a trade, I have no problem with paying him $12M on a one year deal or getting a sandwich pick if he turns down the offer. On the other hand, trading Pence is a must for the reasons that you and others have listed.

         
      • Posts: 146 Eric Seidman

        Avatar of Eric Seidman

        That’s what I said in the post, I thought. Or at least it was in my head. That they might decide 1/$13 is totally fine, especially relative to what they could get in a trade for him. But they just need to finalize that decision because $13 mil next year is $13 mil next year. I, personally, would have zero problem paying a CF of his caliber $13 mil next year.

         
      • Posts: 0 hk

        You seem non-committal as to what they should do if the return is low.

         
      • Posts: 0 hk

        On a separate issue – and I apologize if you touched on this and I didn’t read it – do you think the Phils should have traded Hamels and tried to sign him in free agency? I do if the package was comparable to or better than the one Milwaukee got for Greinke. If Cole had signed elsewhere, they would have had the haul from trading him (Olt plus others from Texas?) and $24M to spend to fill other areas of need.

         
      • Posts: 146 Eric Seidman

        Avatar of Eric Seidman

        I’m pretty much onboard with making the qualifying offer no matter what, but I also have confidence in Schwimer, De Fratus, and all the young relievers they have. If the best they can get is friggin Josh Lindblom, regardless of whether they targeted a specific type of player for Shane, I’d rather make the qualifying offer. If he accepts, great, CF is solved and at a reasonable price on a short commitment. If he rejects, draft pick compensation. I can also understand if the team really values the Brad Lincoln/Logan Ondrusek type, because while most relievers are fickle, bringing another team controlled guy like that in the mix isn’t the worst thing in the world. But me, personally, make the qualifying offer.

         
      • Posts: 146 Eric Seidman

        Avatar of Eric Seidman

        It’s a really good question but very tough without knowing all of the specifics. He did say he would keep the Phils atop his list if traded, but if he hit free agency I don’t think the Phils would have gone above this type of offer, and the Dodgers definitely would have. I would have loved to see the team bring back a great haul for him and then re-sign him in the offseason but it’s a very risky proposition if they weren’t certain they could do it. I’d rather free up Lee’s $24 million to get allocated elsewhere because we’re more likely to get a better return if the acquiring team gets 3+ years of the pitcher as opposed to two months.

         
  • Posts: 0 BART SHART

    Good point about starting Dominic Brown every day for the rest of the year, whether they move Pence or not. This kid has been jerked around enough by Amaro. It is time to fish or cut bait regarding Brown

     
  • Posts: 5490 Lefty

    Avatar of Lefty

    Why trade Pierre if he costs nothing?, dump salary, keep him.

     
  • Posts: 0 TheDipsy

    Lefty, because he’s not gonna be here next year and we could get something for him.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 minerboy

    I am having a hard time undetstanding all this talk about getting rid of Hunter Pence, the only decent hitter the Phillies have next to Chooch when 85% of the problems the Phillies have had over the last two years is lack of offensive punch. Let Mayberry, Polanco, and Victorino move on either now or at the end of year. Trade Blanton to save money and retool in those areas.

     
    • Posts: 1135 EricL

      Avatar of EricL

      You consider trading Pence because he’s going to command something like $14 million dollars next year and is probably the most valuable tradeable commodity on the team. You can easily replace him on the free agent market and should be able to get some valuable prospects in the process.

       
      • Posts: 0 Ken Bland

        I agree with Eric on the theoretic ease of dipping into the free agent market. You want to keep in mind that in this instance, money isn’t quite the issue because you’re eliminating Pence’s would be salary, so you might spend a few million more, but that’s not like adding 15-20 mil.
        I figure about half the list is equal or superior to what Pence offers when you consider both his offense, and limited defense. And if this path doesn’t work out, there’s always the possibility of a trade. There is time to think about this as Pence probably will not be dealt by the trade deadline.

        Comments are from the website this is taken from, ESPN.

        7. Curtis Granderson, Yankees: If he plays in 2012 anything close to the way he did in 2011, the Yankees likely won’t nickel-and-dime their star outfielder. They’ll keep him for 2013 at $13 million and like it.
        11. Michael Bourn, Braves: Bourn doesn’t turn 30 until December, but he’s likely to have a multiyear contract with Atlanta signed well before his milestone birthday.
        14. Josh Hamilton, Rangers: Texas has a ton of money locked up with its multitude of stars, and it wouldn’t be too shocking if the team allows the 30-year-old Hamilton, who has had his share of off-field problems, to leave via free agency. He already has inferred that he won’t offer a hometown discount when he becomes a free agent. .
        25. B.J. Upton, Rays: He avoided arbitration with a one-year, $7 million deal in January, but if Tampa Bay falls behind the Yankees and Red Sox in 2012, there likely will be plenty of interested parties for the services of this talented 27-year-old.
        27. Ichiro Suzuki, Mariners: He already is making $17 million in 2012, so he’ll likely have to take a huge pay cut for 2013. He posted a .645 OPS in 2011 and turns 39 in October.
        40. Torii Hunter, Angels: He wants to play two or three more years in LA, but he likely won’t do it at the $18 million price tag he currently has. Hunter turns 37 in July.
        41. Melky Cabrera, Giants: He’s one of the bigger bargains in baseball at $6 million, and he’ll make a lot of money somewhere if he posts another .809 OPS season in San Francisco like he did in Kansas City.
        42. Nick Swisher, Yankees: With teammates Robinson Cano and Curtis Granderson as higher free agent-to-be priorities, the Yankees probably will let Swisher become a free agent after this season unless he checks in at a reasonable price.
        46. Angel Pagan, Giants: He’ll be looking for a lot more than the $4.85 million he’ll make in 2012. However, San Francisco likely will be in a heated pennant race in 2012 and will hang on to their leadoff hitter for the entire season.
        62. Delmon Young, Tigers: This is a make-or-break season for the 26-year-old Young, who will be paid $6.75 million in 2012. He’ll likely spend the entire campaign in the Motor City then test the free-agent waters.
        88. Cody Ross, Red Sox: This was a great signing by Boston (one year, $3 million), and Ross could earn himself a few more years in Boston if he settles in and becomes a good fourth outfielder.

         
  • Posts: 0 psujoe

    Trade everything not nailed down i.e. not coming back next year. I think you’re all going to be pleaantly surprised with the returns. i think they can get a couple of 25 roster players and some top 20 prospects.

     
    • Posts: 0 hk

      Which players do you think will return a top 20 prospect? The only one I can think of is Halladay or Chooch and I don’t think either of them will be traded.

       
  • Posts: 0 Ken Bland

    Not surprisingly….

    “In today’s double header at Lehigh Valley, Brown played game one in center and game two in right. Brown played a handful of games in center this season, though this would be his first game in right field.”

     
  • Avatar of "Big Ed" Delahanty

    Eric, great article!

     
    • Posts: 5490 Lefty

      Avatar of Lefty

      That’s the best game recap I’ve ever read. Glad you’re in good spirits after a tough weekend Big Ed, wouldn’t want you to do anything rash.

       
  • Avatar of "Big Ed" Delahanty

    I am guessing that Victorino, Blanton, Pierre, are definite goners. Wigginton is a possibility and Pence is also a possibility depending on the return in each case. Polly should be traded in the off season or given the same treatment one gives a race horse that broke its leg. I’d love to see them get some new coaches on the staff, Juan Samuel not my favorite third base coach. It will be interesting to see what Ruben does here. Here’s to hitting the proverbial reset button.

     
    • Posts: 0 stevearino

      Poly is a FA at the end of the year and will not be re-signed.

       
      • Posts: 1135 EricL

        Avatar of EricL

        He’s not a free agent. The Phillies hold an option for something like 5.5 million, which might be worth picking up for his defense alone if there are no other real options available.

         
  • Avatar of "Big Ed" Delahanty

    Lmao! Thanks, Lefty. : )

     
  • Posts: 5490 Lefty

    Avatar of Lefty

    Dipsy, my friend- How much return do you get for a 35 year old Juan Pierre? I don’t ask in a disrespectful way. I really want to know what you think he’s worth. He wasn’t worth much in Spring Training when the Phils offered him a chance. Does he get us another Jeremy Horst? I just don’t see the Reds, who reportedly have interest, giving up much.

    Now- If you want to think out of the box and package Pierre with someone else, (Think the Indians trading Lee, and Francisco for prospects like Jason Knapp, Carlos Carrasco, Lou Marson and Jason Donald) then you might pull somewhat of a haul of prospects for Victorino and Pierre or Blanton and Pierre combined than you couldn’t separately.

     
  • Posts: 0 David

    I agree on Dominic Brown. You have to see whether he can play for next year. If they trade Blanton, that opens up a spot in the rotation for Cloyd. Can he pitch at the next level?

    The positive from today was that Halladay looked very good after Chipper Jones’ home run. He retired the last 10 hitters he faced and had several strikeouts during that time.

     
  • Posts: 0 TheDipsy

    Lefty, I don’t see us getting much for Pierre at all. But something is better than nothing. Yes, a Jeremy Horst would be fine.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 George

    I think part of the reason no trades have been made yet is because Amaro has been trying to maximize the return, and not so much that he’s been waiting to see how the Phils would perform. Any fool could see that they weren’t going anywhere even two weeks ago. Had there been any good offers, I think he’d have already made moves, but you just can’t expect much for rental players like Victorino and Blanton, one dimensional

     
  • Posts: 0 George

    Must have bumped a button accidentally and had my comment submitted before I was through making it. I was about to make changes in it, too.

    It’s my thought that the Phils really have very little to trade, mostly rentals or marginal players, and they aren’t going to get much in return. I believe that that, more than thinking they’d suddenly play better and have a shot at the playoffs, has influenced their confusion over whether to sell. If you can’t get a decent player in return, you might as well keep what you have. They could, of course, trade Lee or Pence, but Lee is part of their rotation strength (even if he’s had an inconsistent year) and Pence is most of their right-handed power, so it would be difficult to actually trade either of them. They’d have to get a very good packege in return.

    I know that if Amaro doesn’t make a move, fans will be calling for his head, but that may be unfair, because he may only have been offered trash for his players.

     
  • Posts: 569 Bruce

    Avatar of Bruce

    Sorry to be a spoilsport as members here enjoy playing the role of GM wanna be’s tossing names around for trade baits but I’m keeping in mind of GM Amaro previous comments he made to the media. He said in so many words, that he is NOT pursuing any drastic changes with the club (certainly not a firesale). He expressed faith in his club that with minor changes such as a need for better quality bullpen and bench strength, it will make a difference. It may not be readily evident at first but as adjustments are made and accepted, Amaro hopefully sees the improvement in the team’s performance for the remainder of the season. He wants to see that bit of turnaround as an impetus for the club that won 102 games last year to use as a motivating factor and springboard for next season with a healthy Utley and Howard and a trio of aces (Hamels, Halladay and Lee) getting a fresh start and a clear mind.

    Oh, and one other thing. Team president, David Montgomery has added his comment that he is willing to pay a luxury tax if it can help strenghten the club for next season. And no doubt he has in mind the fan base and the continuation of the game sellout streak. :-)

     
  • Posts: 0 Jeff Dowder

    KPIX in San Francisco is reporting that a Pence deal is done pending Giants ownership approval. One of the names coming to Philly is AA catcher Tommy Joseph.

    https://twitter.com/KPIXSPORTS

     
  • Posts: 0 Jeff Dowder

     
  • Posts: 0 come here

    The recent Windows version of Microsoft Office System – MS Office 2007 ?has further simplified working processes on the computer. When the MS Office 2007 was first released in its beta cycle in November 2006, it was called Office 12; it was launched in the market for retail customers in January 2007. The MS Office 2007 comes equipped with a repertoire of new features. The menus and toolbars are no longer a feature in this new version;http://www.myoffice2010.com/ instead you will come across a tabbed toolbar called Ribbon. This is an exclusive new graphical user interface called the Fluent User Interface which includes a central menu button. come here

     
  • Posts: 0 Chris

    2012 Phillies. The most disappointing Phillies team ever.

     
    • Posts: 3084 Chuck A.

      Avatar of Chuck A.

      Guess you don’t know about 1964 then, huh???

       
      • Posts: 0 George

        IN my opinion, the ’64 team was not the disappointment that this year’s team has been. Even though the ’64 Phils lost ten straight at the end to lose the pennant to the Cards, THAT team had no business being in first place so late in the season, anyway. They’d played way above their talent level that year. This year’s team has been terrible from day one despite having three supposed aces and quite a number of former all-stars. The 2012 team has played way under their talent level, and to me, it’s more disappointing to have a team with talent playing last place baseball than a team with limited ability that just happens to lose the magic at the end.

         
      • Posts: 0 Ken Bland

        George,

        I may be jaded by a pre season sense that if the Phils won a series beyond the wildcard, it would have been a good year, compounded by beibng an impressionable 12 year old in 1964, but particularly sine a 23 game losing streak lowlighted a 47 win season a mere 3 years before, there is zero comparison between a 6.5 game lead dropping like Niagara fallas, and this slow torture.

        If you lived it and feel that way, so be it, but I think it’s like comparing Breyers Mint Chocolate Chip, and Butter pecan. One totally sucks, the other is a wiinner. Course I’m talking winner in a taste test, not winner on the field. Both fall into the disppointment category, but impact is far more disappointing than slow torture.

         
    • Posts: 0 George

      Ken, please note that I said “In my opinion.” You are certainly entitled to yours, particularly since the topic is completely emotional and subjective, and can’t be backed up by any facts.

      I also hate to say it, but your ice cream analogy doesn’t work for me. In my opinion, ALL Breyer’s flavors are lousy. Subjectivity again!

       
      • Posts: 0 Ken Bland

        I know you said “in my opinion.”

        And I said if you lived it and feel that way, so be it.

        And I wouldn’t pry as to if you followed the 64 club, but while its definitely is opinion, I find it really hard to believe that anyone who lived it would think this is more disappointing, but maybe the ratio would shock me.

        Hell, the 2010 and 2011 teams could be argued to be more disappointing than this.

         
      • Posts: 0 George

        Anything subjective can be argued. I appreciate that you aren’t going to pry, but I’ll readily admit to having lived through 1964. It may be hard to believe, but there are some of us who do indeed find the stinko, slow torture of 2012 to be more disappointing, albeit a more slowly evolving disappointment than ’64. At least ’64 didn’t frustrate and enrage people for an entire season, and at least the ’64 team gave some hope that ’65 could be even better.

        If fans weren’t so disappointed this year, and actually had hopes for 2013, they wouldn’t be wanting Amaro to trade half the team.

         
  • Posts: 0 Dave

    I’d rather keep Pierre. He’s batting over .300 and he’s cheap right now. You can even platoon him next year if you like. Unless the Phillies are offered a really good deal, I’d keep him.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chris

    Thanks Chuck….what i meant to say is, most disappointing season I’ve witnessed!

     
    • Posts: 3084 Chuck A.

      Avatar of Chuck A.

      I figured that, Chris……just busting chops.

      Yeah…it’s been a disappointment for sure but, with the right moves now and a healthy start to the ’13 season (Utley, Howard, Doc, bullpen pieces such as Stutes,etc.)….2012 could be thought of as just a blip on the screen.

      Re-signing Hamels was KEY.

       
    • Posts: 0 Ken Bland

      1979 is a candidate, too.

       
  • Posts: 3084 Chuck A.

    Avatar of Chuck A.

    George – This year’s team has been terrible from day one largely due to their #3 and #4 hitters starting the season on the DL and being there for a long time. I would almost guarantee that if Howard and Utley were healthy from the start that they’d be right there.

    I’m not disappointed about this season because, frankly, I’m not surprised based on what we knew at the beginning.

     
    • Posts: 0 Jeff Dowder

      The performance of the pitching staff has led to this mess more than any offensive problems. The regression of Halladay, Lee, and (to a lesser extent) Hamels, along with one of the worst bullpens in baseball is what got them to this point.

       
      • Posts: 3084 Chuck A.

        Avatar of Chuck A.

        The bullpen is bad because of injuries to key members like Stutes, Herndon and Contreras. Halladay has regressed some (he’ll be fine, though, I feel) and Lee has disappointed for sure (but will probably be ok as well). I disagree that Hamels has regressed, however. Thank God we have him to anchor this rotation.

        I will stick to my comment that the absence #3 and #4 hitters in the lineup for a large portion of the season has largely contributed to a 45-57 record. Not saying that they would be in first place or anything but I would imagine that with Utley and Howard in the lineup for the whole season….even with a sucky pitching staff….that they would be at least a .500 team right now.

         
      • Posts: 0 Jeff Dowder

        I agree that they missed Utley & Howard. With those two in the lineup, they actually have a chance of mounting a comeback once in a while. However, the Phillies scored 4.40 runs per game last season. This year, even with the injuries, they’re averaging 4.20 runs a game. Not much difference.

        The big problem has been allowing 4.56 runs (total, not just earned) runs per game. Last year that number was 3.27 runs per game.

        Washington is scoring 4.36 runs a game this season while allowing 3.54. The difference is in the pitching – they’re allowing a full run less per game.

         
      • Posts: 0 Jeff Dowder

         
    • Posts: 0 George

      If it’s as you claim, how do you explain the miserable performances of Victorino, the rotten start of Rollins, the inconsistency of Lee, the bad defense at various positions, the garbage pitching of Chad Qualls, etc? Utley was out a good portion of 2011, Oswalt had back issues all year, and Howard was not himself for the final month, and Polanco was injured almost the entire year, and yet even with those problems with key players, that team did far better than this one has. How does a team giving major playing time to Michael Martinez win so many more games than one giving playing time to far superior bench guys?

      I wouldn’t be disappointed had the 2012 Phils been at least close to .500, simply because those injuries did do some damage. But I don’t think anyone could have predicted, even with Howard and Utley sitting, that this team would be this bad, that the starting rotation would have an ERA over 4.00, that the defense would be so dismal, or that all those highly hyped rookie bullpen arms (hyped by many people on this very site) would cough up so many leads. But the fact remains that this team has not played to their talent level, with or without key injuries, and that, to me, is a GIGANTIC disappointment. ‘

       
      • Posts: 3084 Chuck A.

        Avatar of Chuck A.

        Fair points…all of them….but, to me, the 3 and 4 hitters taken out of any legitimate MLB lineup at the same time for an extended period can’t help but have a devastating effect. Add in the staff ace being sidelined for 2 months and it’s crippling. Yes…Cliff Lee has been inconsistent….BUT.. he’s gotten lousy run support at times.

         
  • Posts: 0 SavannahPhilliesPhan

    Because of the injuries that have hampered this team all year, there were too many fill in/ temp players who didn’t commit themselves to the team. Many had nothing to gain by breaking their collective a**es for a team they weren’t going to be playing on next season. They knew from the outset that when the injured players returned they would be traded. Then, of course there were the players who just couldn’t compete because they had limited skill levels. Some can’t hit and other cant field. Some were just inept. I think the attitude in the clubhouse was one of not caring enough to keep this team in contention and I think that caused alot of tension with some of the regular team members. IMO our regular players just gave up the season at some point and figured this was a lost season.

    Hopefully with everyone coming back and healed, next season will give us different results.

     
    • Posts: 0 George

      I have to disagree somewhat here. I doubt that the players brought in felt they’d be on their way out when the regulars returned. Most had always been bench players anyway, so why not be a bench player on a playoff contender? For example, Juan Pierre certainly hasn’t been loafing. Nix was doing fine until he was injured.

      It’s possible that so many new players hurt the general clubhouse attitude, but probably not for the reason you’ve cited, and I doubt that any true professional would concede the season as easily as you seem to think. There could be personality differences, but probably not because of the supposed ineptitude or any “I don’t care” attitude of the new team members.

       
  • Posts: 1190 Manny

    Avatar of Manny

    I too think this series was the Phillies’ final nail in the coffin. We’re now 12.5 games back in the WC race, and though I wouldn’t say it’s impossible for this team to make a historic comeback, I think it’s now safe to say that it will not happen. It’s sad considering the talent on this roster, but we just can’t get swept by one of the more serious WC contenders when we were already in a precarious spot.

    We should definitely try to make deals happen around Pence and Blanton, and give some consideration to proposals involving Shane. However, we better get some decent prospects in those trades… if we’re just gonna trade a guy like Pence for a so-so prospect or two, then don’t do it. I would expect a good haul from either Pence or Victorino.. and a mediocre/salary-dumpish trade for Blanton, which I’d be ok with at this point.

     
    • Posts: 3084 Chuck A.

      Avatar of Chuck A.

      “The talent on this roster” ….. True. Except that………. and AGAIN, I will say it………..for almost 3 months the #3 and #4 hitters were on the DL. Throw in your staff ace on the DL for almost 2 months and that’s a lot of inactive talent.

      I am not surprised that they are where they are.

       
 
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