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Pierre Legs it Out for Phillies Win in Extras

Posted by Pat Gallen, Sun, August 12, 2012 06:25 PM | Comments: 36
2012 Game Recaps, Analysis, News, Opinion, Posts

Horst and Pierre picked up the Phils (AP)

Juan Pierre‘s infield single in the 11th inning brought home Jimmy Rollins to beat the St. Louis Cardinals, 8-7. It wasn’t pretty, but it was a victory.

KRATZ YOUR HANDS

-Mired in a slump, Erik Kratz came through huge with two outs in the eighth inning, smashing a three-run home run to tie it at seven. It’s been great to see Kratz get an opportunity and seize it.

SLOPPY PLAY

-The Phillies committed three errors on the day and the pitching wasn’t great either. Vance Worley gave up four runs in 5 1/3 innings. He, along with five other pitchers, allowed Jon Jay and Matt Carpenter, the Cardinals 1-2 hitters, to go 7-for-11 with five RBI.

-Michael Schwimer can look so great one day and then the absolute opposite the next. He gave up three runs on three hits in the eighth inning.

HIT IT

-Chase Utley and Ryan Howard did some damage of their own, combining to go 3-for-6 with a home run, coming off the bat of Howard. It looked like the old days with the two of them propping up the middle of the Phillies order.

HORST WINS IT

-Jeremy Horst won his first game as a major leaguer, pitching two solid innings in the 10th and 11th. He struck out three and lowered his ERA to 1.13. The Phillies clearly got the better of that Wilson Valdez trade.

Avatar of Pat Gallen

About Pat Gallen

Pat Gallen has written 1667 articles on Phillies Nation.

Pat is Editor-in-Chief of Phillies Nation. He also covers the Phils for 97.5 FM in Philly.

 
 
  • Posts: 0 BART SHART

    I am an old cranky man. Ugly, too, or so my wife says. But when the Phils pulled this out it made me so excited that I came real close to crapping myself. I didn’t, but if I had, I would not have cared, What excitement. Heros like Horst, Pierre, and Kratz. GO PHILS !!!! Games like this make the season worthwhile.

     
    • Posts: 0 Ryne Duren

      that was funny bart! i can relate with that! i put a big picture of my face from 30- 35 yrs ago taped to the mirror in my bathromm so when i get up in the morning and look into the mirror i see it instead of the real thing and go whew! then after i’m up and have a cup of coofee i can go in and remove it to shave. lol then i go ugh! i don’t have an answer for the cranky part cause my wife says i’m cranky alot these days! i wasn’t cranky the last 5-7 yrs. i wonder what the comon denominator is?

       
      • Posts: 0 George

        I’m lucky. My eyes have gotten so bad over the years, I can no longer see just how old and ugly I’ve become.

        As far as being cranky, I don’t have the answer, either, because I’ve been that way all my life.

         
  • Posts: 0 George

    In defense of Schwimer, I’ll just say that his bad outings have been pretty far apart lately. Before today, he’d given up only a couple of hits to something like 30 batters. When he’s bad, though, he’s terrible. It’s nice he was bailed out.

    Horst has been a good pickup. I remember clearly how so many fans groaned when Valdez was shipped out. Even Amaro had some early regrets.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ken Bland

    Far be it from me to be critical of the Phils for the recent alumni weekend, always a fun one, but especially when the team is winning, but they missed the canoe big time this time.

    McCarver throwing to Lefty was nice, but yo, what’s up with George Smith not copping any weekend first pitches.

    91 years ago this day, George tossed a complete game 12 hit shutout V the Boston Braves.

    Check out George’s work in that 1921 season that included that many hit masterpiece.

    His W-L was 4-20, but of course that doesn’t matter since pitcher W’L's have exited stage leftwith the Edsel, Corvair, and fresh recordings from The Delfonics.

    So measure these peripherals V your modern day standards. In 221 innings, with 12 complete games no less, George yielded 303 hits, and struck out 45 batsmen.

    Moral of the story?

    A Kyle Kendrick for every era.

    Except in the financial department.

     
    • Posts: 0 Ryne Duren

      ken that was excelent very excelant. my hat off to you!

       
      • Posts: 0 Ken Bland

        all part of remembering some of the baseball I watched as a youth, Ryne. Thanks.

         
  • Posts: 4409 Lefty

    Avatar of Lefty

    Wow, 6 pitchers, 3 errors and only 7 hits in 11 innings, that’s not usually the recipe for winning! Great job of hanging in there and fighting to the end Phils. The Cardinals really needed this series, and the Phils wouldn’t let them have it. Minor payback for last year I guess. And, we have 7 games left with the Reds so maybe in a backhanded way we can help them a little then. ( I always root for a Phillies victory no matter who it helps )

    I’m surprised there is no mention in the write up of Jimmy’s steal of third. I doubt Juan Pierre’s infield hit is a game winner without it.

     
    • Posts: 0 Ryne Duren

      agreed lefty! i’m glad jimmy stole 3rd and scored on the infield single by pierre, and i’m glad the phils won. with that said. i still don’t like rollins and hope he’s gone next year.

       
  • Posts: 0 mr.bill

    so grumped up that i left after schwimmer blew it, had to go to PYT and gets burger

     
    • Posts: 0 Brooks

      Bill I was so pissed I wanted to leave also! My wife talked me into staying – phew!
      Thing is like Lefty said, the Phils did just enough with the few hits they got. They didn’t go down 1-2-3 a lot of times, there were walks inbetween but no hits after Howards HR tied it.
      Not typical at all, the 3 errors made them look little league.. Utley missed a throw at the plate where he is normally on, his triple should have been a double, he should have been caught at third – and Worley was getting hit hard.
      I think that Worley needs to be examined, bone spurs perhaps and bring up Cloyd to fill his spot for now. Why not?

       
  • Posts: 0 psujoe

    Phils will be back on top next year. They’re winning with 4 relief pitchers and still 2 of 8 regulars out. I like the idea of Adams. Lock down the Pen and get 2 key players and they’ll be good to go.

     
  • Posts: 45 artemis

    Avatar of artemis

    We’ve won both series this year against the WS Champs Cardinals Squirrels. I just want to ask here, except for that lost weekend in Atlanta, how many series have we won since the All Star break?

     
  • Posts: 513 Bruce

    Avatar of Bruce

    It’s a nice ‘feel good’ win for the team and fans. Another extra inning walkoff win..you got to like that. A lot of key contributions as a team (despite the 3 errors) with Utley, Howard, Rollins, Kratz and of course, Pierre. Papelbon did his thing and Horst has been a pleasant surprise (so far).

    The bullpen has been the underachieving team’s Achilles’ heel for the entire season. It will be interesting to see out it will all turn out during next season’s spring training with the return of Stutes, Herndon and perhaps Contreras in good health. Horst looks to be a keeper as well as Valdes. Not so with Schwimer and Diekman. They are too inconsistent in their early stage of development and needs more time in the minors.

    Perhaps with added revenue from the salary dumps of Blanton, Pence and Victorino, GM Amaro may be shopping during the offseason for a quality reliever as the 8th inning setup to closer, Papelbon. I don’t think Lindblom nor Bastardo fits in that role.

     
  • Posts: 0 bacardipr

    Contreras is done the Phils need to move past him. They need a solid eight inning guy that (insert manager) can count on. Horst has been a pleasant surprise but soon to tell if he is for real. The team needs a 3B (Rube dont get disillusion thinking Frandsden is the guy) a solid 8th inning guy and a CF’er. They also need the 3 Aces to be Aces.

     
    • Posts: 0 Brooks

      How about if reality sets in? How many teams really have 3 aces? My point being if the starter can keep the opposition under 4 runs this should be a winnable game. Allowing the team your facing to score 4 runs is not ace expectations – but should be within reach. The fact that the sheer mention of our starters should scare our opponents is quite the advantage, and given the fact that either of these guys is likely to throw a gem is superior to what most teams have.
      Not this year though.

       
    • Posts: 0 George

      I only hope that fans don’t blame Amaro if he can’t find a 3rd baseman better than Frandsen. They aren’t exactly growing on trees, and even those so-called “great” GMs would be hard-pressed to find one without trading half their top ten prospects. Frandsen might have to be the answer even if Amaro doesn’t really want him.

       
  • Posts: 0 Ken Bland

    Quality before quantity would be a nice approach to populate third base candidate (s) next spring, but woeful market that it is, I might be inclined to keep an eye on if there’s any progress to an improvement to Freddy Sanchez’s health. It’s hard planning on him coming back effectively, but if you can bring in the junk they did this spring, Freddy wouldn’t be a downgrade on a look see basis. He’s primarily a 2B, but has, and can play 3rd. And he is without a shadow of a doubt a winning ballplayer. Huge longshot, but so is the rest of the reasonable field.

     
  • Posts: 2952 Chuck A.

    Avatar of Chuck A.

    This board is deader than a door nail these days. Pretty depressing….

     
  • Posts: 1189 Manny

    Avatar of Manny

    What a great game yesterday! Pierre gets all the credit for that infield single… and kudos to Jimmy for stealing 3rd, allowing him to score on that play. Also worth highlighting, the bullpen pitched really well (except for Schwimmer).

    On the list of things that annoyed me: Howard and J-roll swinging at 3-0 counts. ESPECIALLY Howard… didn’t he learn a thing from last year’s playoffs?! Absolutely no more green lights for players when they’re 3-0!!! Sure… ONE DAY.. he may get something better than a single, but more often than not, you’re giving the opposing team a chance to get an out. It’s simply not smart baseball. GET ON BASE. That’s all.

    (Hard to be tough on him when he also hit a HR that tied the game… but there’s still room for improvement.)

     
    • Posts: 0 George

      The three ball swing can be argued until doomsday. It certainly isn’t an automatic anything. If it’s a strike instead of a ball (and many times it is), that just puts the batter one strike closer to making that out. It can give the pitcher a chance to regain his “feel” so that his next pitch is also a strike. (I’ve seen many pitchers go 3-0, then put everything over the plate after the batter takes strike one). In a different case, that three ball pitch might be a big fat “get it over the plate” effort that might be right in the batter’s “happy zone” and end up in the bleachers.

      In my opinion, there’s nothing wrong with swinging 3-0, provided the batter is selective about it and only swings at something he can actually get decent wood on.

       
      • Posts: 1189 Manny

        Avatar of Manny

        Makes NO sense. A walk is as good as a hit. When you’re up 3-0, the odds are that you’ll almost definitely get on base. Take a strike or two, but get on base. Then say thank you.

         
      • Posts: 0 George

        A walk is only sometimes as good as a hit. I’d definitely prefer the batter to be on second or third, or to drive himself in. None of those happen with a walk.

        And, in case you aren’t aware, taking that 3-0 pitch is absolutely NO GUARANTEE that the batter will walk. If you’ve ever watched games, there have been many, many instances of a batter striking out, grounding out, or popping out after he’s laid off of a 3-0 pitch over the fat part of the plate. If the pitch is hittable, why would anyone want to waste it? It would be like having your cleanup hitter sacrifice with one out and the runner already on second base.

         
  • Posts: 0 hot dog

    I was at the game also a very nice win even though they kept trying to lose the game. what bothered me in the 8 th inning with Schwimer was after Furcal gets a lead off signal he has Freese in an 0-2 count and throws 4 straight balls to walk him, mostly breaking balls. I am not sure who calls the pitches Kratz or the bench but they need to throw a strike. The same thing happened with Bastardo against Freeman on wensday. Then when he gives up the double to Jay he put his head down and if you watch the replay you can see he is no mans land not baking up anyone as the play continues. This is totally unacceptable.

     
  • Posts: 4409 Lefty

    Avatar of Lefty

    The Phillies have been looking for an answer at third base since when? David Bell in 04-? some would say since Scott Rolen before him. That’s at least 8 years of drafting, developing, trading, signing FA’s- and the fact is, they haven’t got it done.

    Some say these guys don’t grow on trees, and that’s absolutely correct. However, some teams DO find them, and a glance around MLB shows that. Since 2004 there have been many terrific new third basemen brought up. This list is top of head and not all inclusive.

    David Wright (maybe can’t count him because first year was 04)
    Ryan Zimmerman
    Evan Longoria
    David Freese
    Hanley Ramirez
    Chase Headley
    Brett Lawrie
    Will Middlebrooks
    Mike Moustakas
    Mike Olt (probably should be in the list below, but he’s in the majors now)
    Kyle Seager
    Todd Frazier

    And some that are projected as future stars such as
    Anthony Rendon
    Nick Castellanos
    Manny Machado ( also brought up to MLB now)

    Others will say don’t blame Amaro, Gillick, or Wade for this. And I’m asking–Who’s fault is it then? Where does the responsibility ultimately lie? 8 years is a long time, and what does the pipeline look like now? I don’t know, is Cody Asche Major league material? and when?

     
    • Posts: 0 Rick

      Ryan Zimmerman 1st rd #4
      Evan Longoria 1st rd #3
      Brett Lawrie 1st rd #16
      Mike Moustakas 1st rd #2
      Anthony Rendon 1st rd #6
      Manny Machado 1st rd #3

      Jesse Biddle was picked over Castellanos and Olt. You can debate the merits of that choice but Jesse Biddle is arguably our #1 prospect right now. Next we have Chase Headley, picked in the 2nd round, who we could have had but we picked a different 3rd baseman right before him: Mike Costanzo. Needless to say the guy has done nothing. We chose Kelly Dugan and Kyrell Hudson over Kyle Seager in 2007. Kyle Seager has been largely unimpressive in the majors so far but he was quite good in the minors. Dugan has had a decent season with Lakewood this year and Hudson has been a disappointment. Todd Frazier was picked in the first round in 2007. We could have had but picked Savery first. Obviously that doesn’t look that great right now but D’arnaud went a couple picks after Frazier and I doubt you could complain if Savery and D’arnaud would have been flip-flopped. To round out the list Hanley got a 20k signing bonus- which is not something an international stud would be paid today. That makes me think he wasn’t as highly regarded by anyone. Middlebrooks was picked in the 5th round and Freese in the 9th rd. I would say they could be your best complaints out of everyone but after actually looking at all the people you named for the most part they were off the board before the Phillies even had a pick or they just went with something else and missed. Picking prospects is a hard thing to do. The only way they could have gotten the really premier guys you mentioned was if they big league team was atrocious.

       
      • Posts: 0 Rick

        RE: The current Phillies crop at 3rd.

        Asche is the closest to be able to make an impact. He was drafted last year and was terrible in Williamsport. He worked hard in the offseason to work on his swing and put up .349/.378/.447 in Clearwater in 270 PAs earlier this year. He struggled to start off when he was promoted to Reading but has since straightened things out in his last 150 AB putting up over an .800 OPS putting his total numbers at reading at .249/.311/.429. He definitely needs a little work against lefties but if he continues his current pace of development I say he could get a September Call-Up next year. Not bad for a guy who skipped Lakewood, and played in Clearwater and Reading this year.

        the other 3rd basemen to watch is Maikel Franco who is a 19 yr old in Lakewood showing some very good power potential. His line is .254/.320/.401

         
      • Posts: 4409 Lefty

        Avatar of Lefty

        Good comment Rick, very informative about the minor leaguers. I totally disagree with your closing statement.

        “The only way they could have gotten the really premier guys you mentioned was if they big league team was atrocious.”

        That’s why good teams have to trade. Do you think the 2006 World Series losing Tigers are sorry they did this in the following offseason?

        http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3141703

         
      • Posts: 0 Rick

        No one will deny that was a good move but that’s a special circumstance. That’s the Marlins who were/are notorious payroll dumpers and I doubt very much they were going to give the Phillies any of that action. It’s gotten to the point that good 3rd base/infield prospects are so rare that people are reluctant to part with them. Not even sure if the Rangers would give up Olt in a deal for Lee.

         
      • Posts: 4409 Lefty

        Avatar of Lefty

        Betwwen Asche and Franco, who would you say is the better defensive 3B?

         
      • Posts: 0 Rick

        Neither of them are supposed to be great defenders. Conflicting reports on Asche. Some people have questioned his ability and others say he makes plays just fine. Franco might be a little better right now. Asche might turn out to be a better defender though because he seems to be willing to put the extra extra time in to improve.

         
      • Posts: 4409 Lefty

        Avatar of Lefty

        I like above average fielders at third. I think it’s important, though not as important as up the middle. It’s the reason why we could win with a god fielder like Pedro Feliz as long as we had power from second base in Utley. But he’s no guarantee anymore, and although he is playing well now, will Chase be able to play next spring? No one can say for sure.

        Anyway, if you build a strong enough system- even if you are weak at certain positions, you can trade with others where they are weak for their strengths. You don’t have to be an atrocius team to get good players. Mike Trout was in our back yard and passed on by 22 teams (actually 21 But the Angels picked someone else first)

        You just have to have a keen eye, a great analytics dept. and be willing to deal your best prospects like the Tigers did. You just have to outwork your competition, and I don’t think 8 years is an acceptable gap in having a true major league third baseman with pop in the system, as I said above be it via drafting, developing, trading, or signing FA’s.

        Ruben Amaro Jr. has admitted to not relying on analytics on National Television. That has to change so that these type of long gaps are avoided. And believe me Rick, I know there is a lot of luck involved, but I believe you make your own luck.

         
  • Posts: 0 bacardipr

    Spot on Lefty. Polly was nice pickup and was the answer temporarily. Then he aged quicker than a Yugo parked near the ocean. I dont believe Youklis dude is the answer. His salary and he;s been hurt a ton. Now he has a concussion. I actually dont know what Rube is going to do at this point. I admit I was a Polly fan and i agreed with the signing. Though seen the man literally fall apart at the hinges im not to keen on bringing him back next year. I also think Rube is taking a big gamble on AAAA Frandsden to be a starter, without a plan B if that experiment fails next year.

     
    • Posts: 0 George

      I think Frandsen isn’t a gamble, but is only the backup plan (probably plan “C”) in case there’s no one available in trade.

      You’re selling Amaro and all the scouts short if you think they’re not aware of Frandsen’s limited skills. Unfortunately, the free agents are probably no better, and a trade will bring all the same old tired comments about how the front office is ruining the team’s future by trading away the young “talent.”

       
  • Posts: 0 bacardipr

    P.S. Too soon to tell on Asche they are trying to fast track him in the ranks…

     
  • Posts: 0 betasigmadeltashag

    I really think it depends on what they do with the outfield as to what happens at 3rd. If you are going into the season with JMJ, Brown, Pierre/Scherholtz then they need to trade for a real 3rd basemen that plays defense. Beltrae maybe, or even Headly. But if they go out and get a 280 25 HR 90 RBI guy in the outfield then maybe you can get away with Galvis or Frandsen at third. If they can deal for a 3rd basemen you may be able to go with JMJ and his 230 BA in Center, and hope Dom can hit 270-280 with 15-20 HRs. If they fill cf with Bourne then you still need some pop out of 3rd. IMO

     
 
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