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Gameday: Phillies (64-69) at Braves (74-59)

Posted by Ryan Dinger, Sun, September 02, 2012 04:05 PM | Comments: 68
2012 Gameday, News, Posts

Philadelphia Phillies (64-69) at Atlanta Braves (74-59)

Cole Hamels(14-6, 2.99) vs. Paul Maholm (2-3, 2.45)

Time: 5:05, Turner Field
TV: PHL17
Weather: Isolated Thunderstorms, 86
Media: Twitter and Facebook

The Phils look to make it four in a row today. After two abysmal games against the Mets earlier in the week, they’ve been playing much better ball in their last few, especially in this Atlanta series, where they’ve looked like the team we’ve grown accustom to seeing in recent seasons. So far, they’ve had a late inning comeback anchored by a couple of dingers, which, coupled with shutdown relief pitching, resulted in a win on Friday.

Yesterday, they received a brilliant outing from Cliff Lee, and the bullpen once again dominated the Braves hitters to finish it off. It’s a formula that has worked well for the Phillies in the past, and one they’ll surely try to stick with going forward. At eight games back from the second wild card spot, chances are slim for the playoffs. But if they can continue to play the way they have so far against Atlanta, they’ll make it much easier on themselves.

On the bump is ace left-hander Cole Hamels, who is making the start after missing his last outing with a stomach bug. Hamels has fared pretty well against Atlanta so far this season, going 1-1 with a 2.25 ERA in three starts. He did have, however, have what was probably his worst start of the season in Atlanta last month, allowing five runs–three earned–over five innings and walking a career-high six. He has since thrown a shutout against the Bravos and should be his usual self today.

LINEUP: Rollins SS, Pierre LF, Utley 2B, Howard 1B, Mayberry CF, Nix RF, Frandsen 3B Kratz C, Lee P

donnybrook stout

Your Gameday Beer: Flying Fish Farmhouse Summer Ale

Keep the end of summer weekend celebration rolling with this excellent summertime ale from Flying Fish. This golden light beer is brewed in New Jersey, and offers a smooth sip with a mild taste and a surprisingly creamy feel. It’s perfect for day two of barbecuing. -RD

Go Phillies!

Avatar of Ryan Dinger

About Ryan Dinger

Ryan Dinger has written 125 articles on Phillies Nation.

Ryan stated writing for Phillies Nation in 2012.

 
 
  • Posts: 0 bacardipr

    Man it will suck if the wildcard came down to one game. Mini Mart batting 2 outs bases loaded 9th inning. Stuff nightmares are made off.

     
    • Posts: 0 ok

      Walk off HBP, if we’re lucky.

       
    • Posts: 0 Devin

      I know Charlie makes some funny decisions sometimes, but I’m pretty sure he’d bring in a pinch hitter for that….

       
  • Posts: 0 Ken Bland

    So many things and games you could look back on, but this start today REALLY just sickens you about those 2 losses to the mets this week. I mean it was a HUGE longshot anyway, but, you know.

    meanwhile, this Milwaukee club, like the Phils has done a nice job of hanging around the wildcard fringes. What’s 1 more club to pass when you’re having fun.

     
  • Posts: 5152 Lefty

    Avatar of Lefty

    To heck with Mario Mendoza, it’s time to establish a new “Martinez Line”.

     
  • Avatar of "Big Ed" Delahanty

    Im not gonna jinx it. But I’m looking forward to a s—-! Plus, a win today, coupled with a Pirates and Cardinals loss, will leave us 7 out of the 2nd WC?! Go Phils!

     
  • Avatar of "Big Ed" Delahanty

    I don’t care what argument there is for Mini-Mart, but he needs to go…immediately. Bring up Ruf. Give him a shot. I hope Frandsen didn’t tweak his ankle, guy is doing great. Go away Mini-Mart.

     
  • Posts: 517 Morris Buttermaker

    Avatar of Morris Buttermaker

    I was talking to some stat geek about a month ago. He claimed that 75 at-bats is the criteria for qualifying for worst batting average of all time. Anybody know about that? Mini-mart has a good shot at it.

     
    • Posts: 0 Ken Bland

      I don’t know where they got that qualifier from, but I just did a web search for things like worst batting average ever, and came up empty. So if it’s 75 AB’s, it’s news to me.

      What I came up with is like a foreign language to the question, the worst 50 seasons full-time (Mini won’t qualify), and if you glance at the individual numbers, you’ll see how distantly poor his numbers are to these abominations.

      http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15045

       
      • Posts: 517 Morris Buttermaker

        Avatar of Morris Buttermaker

        Every page I see, says that it is the same as the qualification for the batting crown, which is 502. I believe it is Rob Deer that has the worst batting average for a season in the modern era using that criteria.

        Either way, Mini Mart has the worst batting average of any non-pitcher that I can remember.

         
  • Avatar of "Big Ed" Delahanty

    Sorry for the unbridled rant where I upbraided Mini-Mart, he just get under my skin like a splinter laced with battery acid. ; )

     
  • Posts: 517 Morris Buttermaker

    Avatar of Morris Buttermaker

    I have no problem with Mini-Mart himself. He tries his best. He just should not be in the Major Leagues. Fans should get 1/9th of their ticket price back whenever he appears in a game.

     
  • Posts: 2990 Chuck A.

    Avatar of Chuck A.

    I mean, really….is MiniMart THAT much more of an advantage batting right than Laynce Nix batting left?? So I Iooked it up…

    Nix against lefties for his career: .184
    MiniMart batting right against lefties for his career: .169

    Not that much of a difference but still….. I just don’t get it.

     
  • Posts: 0 BART SHART

    Mini Mart offers very little offense. I really miss Hector Luna. He had something special and now he will shine for someone else.

     
    • Posts: 2990 Chuck A.

      Avatar of Chuck A.

      What “something special” did Hector Luna have as a member of the Phillies???

       
      • Posts: 0 Ryne Duren

        chuck A that something special you’re asking about? could it be that he’s a much better ballplayer?

         
  • Posts: 517 Morris Buttermaker

    Avatar of Morris Buttermaker

    Moments like this really make me hate Tom McCarthy.

    And Papelbom.

     
    • Posts: 0 Ryne Duren

      morris someone could fart two blocks away from me and that would make me hate McCarthy! it wouldn’t take much at all my friend.

       
  • Posts: 0 Andrew from Waldorf

    Sad

    I can only say that every red sox fan I know was thrilled to lose Paplebomb

    theres always tomorrow

     
  • Avatar of "Big Ed" Delahanty

    WTF!!!!! Papelbum!!!!!!!!!! I’m beyond furious. We had the game locked with a four run lead and could have made up a game in the wild card. I gotta take a walk.

     
    • Posts: 0 Ryne Duren

      Big guy personally i think cholly should have started a different pitcher in the ninth. horst finished the seventh, pitched a strong eight. and that should have been it! he’s done this all stinkin year and it burns us every time! i will say though that paps had bourn struck out on that check swing! the replay showed his bat crossed the plate. i said to my boys when i saw that . we’re gonna lose on a chipper homer you watch.

       
      • Posts: 0 Ken Bland

        “I said to my boys when i saw that . we’re gonna lose on a Chipper homer you watch.”

        My man, Ryne Duren first in line for “Goat of the Game” honors.

        You gotta be Brave to confess to that to a madder than hell readership.

        And I thought it was Papelbon’s fault.

         
  • Posts: 0 DavidE

    Terrible loss today. Unbelievable!! What are the odds of losing a 4 run lead with 2 outs in the 9th inning? Maybe he should have brought Papelbon to face Janish but Papelbon really hasn’t been that good this year. He is has been an average closer at best. You can’t even say that he has been overworked. He didn’t pitch yesterday.

     
  • Posts: 0 Double Trouble Del

    He blew a game with the playoffs on the line for the Red Sox last year. HE is the one player they should have put on waivers and walked away. He is a head case who still thinks he can blow away quality major league hitters with an average fastball. He’s a disgrace. P.S. To anyone that thought Frandsen could play third base as a starter- rewatch this nightmare.

     
    • Posts: 0 schmenkman

      Venting is understandable, but “disgrace” is a bit strong. He’s having a pretty good year. (not $12 mil good).

       
    • Posts: 0 Ken Bland

      It’s never wise to throw logic at someone when they’re pissed, but Papelbon (at least from what I remember) was pretty shot by that last Oriole game last year from overuse, which wasn’t overuse, because it was kinda sorta necessary, or panic induced. But, that’s history.

      What’s not history is his future. The guy essentially throws 2 pitches, a 4 seamer, and a 2 seamer. He’s “babied,” for lack of another word to protect his shoulder. But as he gets older, and the seamers slow down, in a home run park, hold your stamina because there’s plenty of bitching to come.

      I may wind up wrong, but they missed the boat on this guy.

       
      • Posts: 0 schmenkman

        Ken (not picking on you, it’s a common perception), CBP is really not much of a home run park.

        Over the last 5 years, there have been about as many home runs in the Phillies home games as in their away games in the other parks.

         
      • Posts: 0 Double Trouble Del

        He pitches like he did in 2007- believe me I watch a lot of NESN. Only he doesn’t possess a 97mph fastball anymore and doesn’t appear at all to have the guile to realize it and develop another pitch.

         
  • Posts: 517 Morris Buttermaker

    Avatar of Morris Buttermaker

    Is Polly so banged up that he can’t even play a few innings at 3rd late in the game?

     
    • Posts: 2990 Chuck A.

      Avatar of Chuck A.

      I heard that he can only pinch hit because of his back.

       
  • Posts: 0 Cs

    That was a painful loss. Not just pap’s fault. We can score 5 in one inning and coast out the rest?!

     
  • Posts: 0 Cs

    His guile with pitching fast balls on the zone has cost us at least 2 games.

     
    • Posts: 0 Double Trouble Del

      See below.

       
  • Posts: 0 Ken Bland

    True, but not what you really wanted to hear in the post game…

    Papelbon refused to overstate the impact of one loss.

    “I wouldn’t say it’s a crushing loss,” Papelbon said. “We’ve had a lot of losses this year. We’ve had a lot of chances to sweep teams.”

    I wonder what you describe a loss where you lead 7-1 in the third as if not crushing, almost no matter where your season is. Oh, well. The Phils are gonna get crushed tomorrow, so what the hey.

     
    • Posts: 0 Double Trouble Del

      In addition to being overrated as a closer he is also an idiot, additional proof given by his post-game remarks. No tears were shed in Boston when he walked and I have been decrying this signing for months now. RAJ has got to to find a way to shed this contract this winter.

       
      • Posts: 0 Ken Bland

        Whether an NFL regular or replacement official read what I’m about to say, they’d flag this as piling on, and I’d plead guilty as hell, but ask me if I care. But to paraphrase Papelbon’s statement, it’s not a crushing “story,” or opinion that prevents me from being objective about the guy.

        In spring training, some of the players were in the locker room, and Papelbon was messing with Cliff Lee’s kid, whom I think is 10, maybe 11. He challenged him to do something, like throw a ball through a ring, or something kinda like that. Junior Lee, or Jaxson, if you’re scoring by accuracy, succeeded at the task, and Papelbon fulfilled his promise to the kid and laid a crisp 100 dollar bill in his young hand.

        I guess soemwhere in this favored land, a kid that age could accomplish some task that even in inflationary times was worth a C Note. But, admittedly not knowing the exact challenge, I may be out of line, but it rubbed me the wrong way that Papelbon was laying an excessive amount of cash in a young kid’s hand, and creating a delusion about the value of a c note. I know there are a million ways to blow that thinking apart, including that perhaps with the money Cliff makes, maybe that’s a pittance (I kinda doubt it based on Cliff’s public personna, but that’s a guess), but that just rubbed me the wrong way. Same as asking for the extra 58 bucks on his contract to match his uni number. I don’t hate the guy, but he’s not terribly easy for me to root for.

        Those guys just live in a different world, I guess.

         
    • Posts: 0 schmenkman

      I don’t believe any athlete ever wants to describe a loss as “crushing”. They’re trained their entire careers to mantain a positive attitude, visualize success, etc. Their focus needs to be the next game, and negative thoughts and dwelling on a loss like that are not going to be very helplful.

      And as long as they are successful in putting it behind them, it’s also true — it’s just one loss.

       
  • Avatar of The Original Chuck P

    I literally just found out the Phillies lost… had to run to the grocery store in the 8th inning, checked my phone – the Fangraphs App – Phillies had a 99% chance of winning with two outs in the 9th. I didn’t check again… got busy doing some other things and then I honestly didn’t believe what I read on the ESPN Crawl… thought I might have been watching an ESPN Classic or something where they were showing old crawl stories… I feel like I’ve been punched in the gut. To say that I’m shocked is a huge understatement. What the hell happened? I mean… what the hell happened? That’s not even excusable. No offense, CS but it is Pap’s fault. The Braves have the best bullpen in baseball – that is their strength and one of the primary reasons why they’re where they are in the standings. We tagged the starting pitcher for 7 runs and that should be enough when you have Cole Hamels on the mound. I was actually thinking that Charlie could make a statement by running Papelbon out there to start the 9th… you would do that if this was a one-game playoff. You wouldn’t risk going with someone else when you have Papelbon’s arm ready. Regardless, Papelbon has to shut it down. There’s no other way around it. This is a devastating loss – the ink was nearly dry on the local news reports – probably more than a few starting to get the buzz going about the possibility of this team making a run and instead, the reports will be that this game is the one that effectively ended the forgetful 2012 season.

     
  • Posts: 5152 Lefty

    Avatar of Lefty

    I can’t believe that after 17 years of watching Chipper f’n Jones murder this team that anyone would be surprised at what happened, or place blame on any Phils player. Are you gonna blame every single managerial move, and every single pitcher over a time span of 17 years?

    Why can’t people -just for once- just accept that this guy is really good, and he beats our asses over and over and over.

    Isn’t remotely possible that he is just THAT good, and it wouldn’t matter if we had Casey Stengel managing and Cy Young on the hill? Thank god the SOB will be retired soon. Tough beat tonight, they have to get off the mat, and get ready to play a day game tomorrow.

     
    • Posts: 530 Bruce

      Avatar of Bruce

      I agree that Jones is a great player. And great players often make pitchers paid for their mistake with a pitch they wish they could take back. We know Jones has that reputation of taking aggressive swings on fastballs. On hindsight, Papelbon probably wished he threw one of his rare breaking ball (and does showed that in relief) to Jones.

      Prior to his at bat, we saw the saw the situation unfold alarmingly when Frandsen (where is Polanco?) let the ball played him when he backed up on a grounder and it went by him for a two run double. Had he field it cleanly would Jones have that opportunity to be a hero (again)?

       
    • Posts: 2990 Chuck A.

      Avatar of Chuck A.

      Lefty, I 100000000% agree. Gotta give Chipper props here.

       
    • Posts: 0 Ken Bland

      No question you have to give Chipper a lot of credit for the upteenth time.

      But asking people to look at it solely from that angle is asking a lot.

      Normally, in a ballgame, you can look back on a multitude of events, like runners left, failure to execute a fundamental, and attribute the loss to that, no matter how early in the game it was, as opposed to thee play of the game.

      But the fact of the matter is that the came down to the last at bat, and where the percentages favor the pitcher at somewhere between 6 to 8 out of 10, Papelbon not only failed to keep him in the park to do no worse than allow the Braves to tie, he located the ball to where Larry hit it out. The guy now has 6 losses and 4 blown saves, and will work about 80 innings max for the year. Heath Bell might kill for a year like that, but even if you start blaming the defense, or the offense not being able to bail him out in last at bats, that’s not very good.

      I can’t tell you when it’s appropriate to look at prior parts of the game and allow those to be the ones to piss you off. Nor can I precisely tell you when to give the opponent credit. I’ve focussed those ways many, many times. It just “feels” more appropriate in this instance to bypass everything that happened when the last batter stood in. He had a chance to deliver.
      To save Frandsen, to counter things like failing to score more after Hamels 2 rib double.
      He failed. I’d say that outweighs Larry winning the game.

      Larry used to be an innocent enough name. This guy has changed all that.

       
      • Posts: 5152 Lefty

        Avatar of Lefty

        KenB, It may be asking a lot, but for a historian type like yourself it should be easy to understand how many of these stories there are:

        On July 10th 1995 the Baltimore Orioles released a 32 year old pitcher whose best days were clearly behind him, he’d gone 0-4 with a 7.39 ERA for them. Since you seem to like real first names, we’ll call him Charles Sidney Fernandez. (El Sid) . After suffering a knee injury in 1993, he simply was not the same pitcher he had once been for the New York Mets. But three days after his release, he was picked up by the Phillies and ended up pitching very well for the rest of that season going 6-1 with a 3.34 ERA, which brings us to that one loss.

        On August 1st the Phillies faced the Braves and Sid was going along just fine until he got into trouble in the bottom of the 5th. Now I don’t know how many pitches Sid had thrown to that point, but clearly after allowing two walks squeezed between a sac bunt and a strikeout in that inning before “Larry” came up, he was gassed. That day we argued about Fregosi letting him pitch to the young upstart “Larry” just as we do today. While there wasn’t a first base open to argue about, they could have pitched around him to try their luck with McGriff or Justice but that made no sense either. So Chipper did what Chipper has done so many times thereafter, he hit it out of the Vet to tie the game at 3. And we were very upset with Fregosi.

        The Phils did not lose that day as they used 7 relievers in the last 4 innings to hold off the Braves 4-3 but it was the first of the “who to blame for letting Larry almost/ or just plain ruin our day” stories. There are hundreds more, and they all end the same, “that damn Chipper got us again” My point is that there comes a time after all these years when you just have to say, it wasn’t so much about how or why we lost, but more about how the best man won.

         
      • Posts: 5152 Lefty

        Avatar of Lefty

        EDIT: I should have proofread before hitting the button, my bad-

        It wasn’t a loss for Sid, and it was at Atlanta, not home.

         
  • Posts: 530 Bruce

    Avatar of Bruce

    When Martin Prado’s grounder skipped past third baseman Kevin Frandsen who backed up on it and let the ball played him for a two-run double, giving Jones the opportunity for his walkoff HR, I wondered to myself this thought: why the manager didn’t put in the gold glover, Polanco for late inning defensive replacement before the last inning?

    We have seen Frandsen made some misplays with his throws and his glove in the past. Unless Polanco is hurting (then he should stay on the DL), Manuel should know better than to leave Frandsen in the game. After all, no lead is safe in CBP.

     
    • Posts: 0 schmenkman

      “After all, no lead is safe in CBP.” There aren’t any more runs scored in the Phillies’ home games than in the away games in other parks. CBP is one of the most neutral parks in baseball in terms of being hitter-friendly or pitcher-friendly.

       
  • Posts: 0 Josh

    Bourne was struck out plain and simple. Umpire missed that last pitch big time.

     
  • Avatar of "Big Ed" Delahanty

    Lefty, Chuck A., et al,
    Jones is definitely, based on games I have watched over the years, the number one killer versus the Phillies. I might be wrong because I don’t have stats handy, but from what is etched in my hops-filled brain, he’s done the best job of sticking the dagger in and turning it. This was a comment on ESPN last night:
    “Chipper Jones produced an .872 WPA on the game-winning home run, which is probably the highest WPA play I’ve ever seen. To compare, Brooks Conrad’s grand slam against the Reds in 2010 was worth .803. It nearly doubles Chipper’s previous high WPA play going back to when FanGraphs starts recording the data in 2002.”

    That being said, Frandsen’s error, while costly, did not essentially lose the game. There were still two outs, and it was still 7-5, with Psycho-Tron on the mound. Without looking at a scouting report, but relying on common baseball knowledge amongst players that the man comin up to hit is the leading switch hitter in homeruns and had crushed ones early in countless situations, at this point I’d be thinking, I’m giving this deadly, proven clutch hitter nothing to hit, or if I’m challenging him like a psycho, then I’m blowing perfect heat by him, makin it a point to not leave the ball elevated. Paps may have thirty-some saves, but this one and the previous one versus the Mets have done more than lost a game, they have killed any groove(since apparently momentum doesn’t exist in baseball) the team was getting locked into. I think he is an average to above average closer, but not worth his ridiculous contract. Maybe it’s his stupid CincoOcho personality that bothers me. I can see blowing a save in a tight game- it happens to the best of closers, but this guys unravels at the worst times. Ok, I feel better now that I vented. Let’s sweep the Reds and pull a streak like they did in Oakland.
    P.S. is Schwimmer still AWOL? Did Papelbum ever pay Thome for his bailing him out?

     
    • Posts: 5152 Lefty

      Avatar of Lefty

      “Psycho-Tron” I’m literally laughing out loud. I feel the same way you do about him, Cinco-Ocho = certifiable.

       
    • Posts: 5152 Lefty

      Avatar of Lefty

      Oh, and that stat you are wondering about. Maybe Shmenkman can help us but, Chipper’s lifetime stats vs each team can be accessed on BBRef career splits. His OPS v. the Phillies is an astounding 1.041, while his career is .933, but if you take games against the Phils out, then that number goes down. So yes he elevates his game when playing Philadelphia. And in my mind is the all time Phillie Killer, with everyone on the Big Red Machine a close second.

       
    • Posts: 0 Ken Bland

      In reply to both this from Ed, and Lefty’s El Cid story….

      The game was NOT worth using to read Lefty’s pictures, descriptions and accounts of the 1993 game versus the Braves. But it came close.

      There would have been 1 additional edit needed even if the game had been played at the Vet. I don’t think anyone ever hit a ball out of there. Picky, picky, but those multi purpose stadia didn’t allow for that. Least i don’t think so.

      The back of Larry’s baseball card is blistering. He clearly has demolished both the Phils and Mets, a more tempered blistering against both the Dodgers and Nats (Spos). Funny thing about the Dodger “control”, is when you think Dodgers, because of their history, it impulsively makes sense, but when you realize the LA club during Larry’s career has been pretty routine for the most part, there’s irony in them ” controlling” him. Larry has an equal OPS V the Rocks, comped to the Phils, but a BA of like 20 less points, for whatever BA is worth. The bottom line is if you look at his baseballreference.com splits casually, the 2 clubs that he’s dmaged the most are the Phils and Mets. So there’s a lot of validity to Lefty’s point (which I didn’t deny anyway), but Papelbon still gets some wrath.

      As for Big Ed, I hope you learned your lesson. Last night, you jinxed by saying you weren’t going to create a jinx with the s word. Don’t you know how jinxes work? When Larry Jones is on the field, don’t even breathe any consonants or vowels in the s word.

      As for your sweep the Reds encouragement, that’d be nice. Just because I feel like sharing my impulse, the way i look at it, Cueto, who of course is very good to begin with, pitched to good results at the Bank recently on a wet, uncomfortable mound. This will be the best lineup Cloyd has ever faced. It wouldn’t be the first time a mismatch of the century didn’t work out as planned, but it’s one of these pretty rare games where I give the underdog like zero chance. I’m not naive enough to think they lose because of the way they lost last night, they bounced back from that 15-13 sham with one of their better games of the year when Stellar Joe shut ATL out, 4-0 in a day after day game. Who knows, but I’m pretty sure today’s an L. Keep an eye on Zack Cosart at short. Jimmy’s prolly not going anywhere at this point, but he’s got some extent of replacement potential since full extent doesn’t exsist in this market.

       
  • Posts: 0 TheDipsy

    Signing Papelbon was a mistake. IMO you never give a closer a 4 year deal. With rare exceptions, their seasons run hot cold. Plus, if you start the season with with a closer and he doesn’t pan out, you can always trade for a hot one at the deadline.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Avatar of "Big Ed" Delahanty

    Lefty,
    Laughter’s the best medicine, and, in the end, that is all we can do! I hope Cloyd throws a gem tonight, and we can get some runs across against Cueto and make this scramble for the second WC fun.

     
  • Posts: 0 Psujoe

    Holy crap. Woke up and saw we blew this game. It’s a microcosm of the season. Ugh.

     
  • Posts: 530 Bruce

    Avatar of Bruce

    I’ll repeat my earlier post on this thread …”Had he (Frandsen) field it cleanly would Jones have that opportunity to be a hero (again)?” Of course not. And Papelbon would not be vilified by posters here except for a few with a certain mindset against him.

    it’s becoming apparent (at least to me) that Frandsen is not an everyday player that Manuel is looking for unless Polanco stays with the team for next season. We missed the steady and reliable, if not spectacular fielding of Gold glover, Polanco. While his offensive output may be be diminished (injuries played a part here), Polanco provides that protection at the hot corner that a starting pitcher and team greatly appreciates regardless what the offense minded fans may think. Bring Polanco back!

     
    • Posts: 0 George

      Just a couple of thoughts: Do you bring back a player who likely will not spend most of his time on the DL? Polanco, even when playing, just isn’t much offensively anymore, and with a bad back, his range and agility can only get worse.

      And this one for the Dipsy: Please list the names of all those “hot” closers who have been traded mid-season. I’m sure there are a few, but saying you can always do it borders on the ridiculous. Plus, even if you can do it, a good closer will always cost a boatload of prospects. Please note, however, that none of that means I think Papelbon should have been signed for so long or for so much. Papelbon has been pretty good, but he was never worth what he’ll be getting. My reaction at the time was basically “WTF?” Of course, my reaction to the rumored contract offer to Madson was precisely the same.

       
    • Posts: 0 Ken Bland

      Bruce,

      Your point about the Fransden play didn’t fall on blind eyes. My personal take is they still had a lead, and control, but one teammate couldn’t pick another up. Oh, well. Yesterday’s news.

      On Polly, bringing him back isn’t so simple. He has a 5.5 mil mutual option. Say they want to decline it, and bring him back cheaper. That could excite him, but he’s got a lot of friends and respect around the game, and could land a lot of places as a utility guy, including former employers St. Lou and Detroit. Maybe he wants to stay here, I don’t know. He’s such a health risk, but part of this would be ’13 roster is too, for the same reason, age. prolly didn’t tell ya anything ya aren’t aware of.

       
  • Posts: 0 TheDipsy

    Mindset? Forgive me if I hate it when my closer serves up a fastball right down the middle of the plate to a Hall of Fame hitter who proceeds to hit a walk off homer to win the game. I am prejudiced against that. Closer that get paid like Papelbon shut down the game even when career minor league guys playing out of position are making errors behind them. No excuses when you get paid that much.

    The Dipsy

     
    • Posts: 0 George

      This I can certainly agree with. It wasn’t just the home run, but Papelbon also walked a batter before giving up that “hit” that scored the first two. He plain stunk last night.

      Papelbon’s biggest problem to me is not his stuff, it’s his lack of baseball acumen. You don’t throw just fastballs to a hitter like Jones.

       
    • Posts: 5152 Lefty

      Avatar of Lefty

      I agree with both of you. I can forgive an athletic error, (no matter how much someone is paid, because that’s the payee’s fault in my way of thinking) but there is no excuse for throwing that pitch on that count to that batter. Cinco-Ocho plays more with his machismo than his brain.

       
  • Posts: 0 TheDipsy

    And now the little sally boy can’t close the game today. I guess “why should he”? We’re not playing for anything. Another thing about Papelbon – if your personality is as grating as his is – as he seems as if he believes that he’s god’s gift to closing – then you don’t have games like yesterday. Rivera, Eck, Hoffman, Smith – those guys didn’t ave games like Papsmear did yesterday.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Avatar of "Big Ed" Delahanty

    Ken,
    I didn’t comment earlier for fear of jinxing us again today, but how about Cloyd? : ) Lol. Awesome stuff. Go Phils!
    Bruce,
    Frandsen went 2-4 today. I’ll take his torrid hitting right now over an error, even if that error cost a run or two.

     
    • Posts: 0 Ken Bland

      Cloyd was indeed outstanding. His first win and Aumont’s first save in the same game. Might lighten some of the fan base up. I won’t name names to protect myself. Club’s won 11 of 16 now. You always have would have should have could haves mixed in, and they will most certainly keep on ‘keepin’ on, but through rose colored glasses, they aren’t far from about 13-3 as they move toward the part of the schedule David mentioned. I’d mentioned that 13 game stretch recently and that it was combined with I think 13 games against “better” clubs, against whom they are now 3-1.

       
  • Posts: 0 DavidE

    Regarding Smith, I assume you mean Lee Arthur Smith who pitched for the Cardinals and the Cubs. I was there in 1993 when Mariano Duncan hit a grand slam off of Smith to win a game 6-5. It happens.

    Great win by Cloyd today. I don’t think Papelbon has been demoted. I just think that Charlie decided that he needed the day off. He has to test DeFratus and Aumont and see how they respond to game situations. Today, they did the job.. He n eeds to give them more tests.

    It’s not likely the Phillies are playing for playoffs. It’s tough being behind 7½ games behind two teams and 5½ games behind Pittsburgh. However, it’s not over till it’s over. This weekend, the Phillies start a 13 game stretch against teams with losing records starting with 3 against the Rockies and 4 against the Astros.

     
  • Posts: 0 bacardipr

    I dont want Polly back. I did at start of the season. I still have respect and admiration and still think Polly was a great player. At the same token i have no idea or suggestions to fill that 3B hole. Stuff like yesterday misplay can happen even to a gold glove 3baseman less likely but it can happen. People immediately fell in love with Frandsden and already had him penciled in as next year starter. I held reservations until i saw more of him. I think he might be a decent bench player, but in no way was i ready to ink him as a starter next year. Not just after a few games. Same way i think people think Cloyd is going to be next Glavine just after 2 games.

     
  • Posts: 0 TheDipsy

    Would totally take Polly back as insurance at 2B 3B. Buy him out and sign him back for 1.5m? Would totally do that.

    The Dipsy

     
 
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