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Phils Drop 2012 Home Finale

Posted by Amanda Orr, Thu, September 27, 2012 10:58 PM | Comments: 34
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The Phillies dropped their final home game of the season, losing 7-3 to the Washington Nationals on Fan Appreciation Night.  If the St. Louis Cardinals win tonight, the Phillies will officially be eliminated from Wild Card contention.

CLOYD’S OUTING

-Thursday was Cloyd’s worst outing of  his young career.  The rookie lasted five innings, surrendering six earned runs.  He was tagged with his second loss of the season.

-Cloyd allowed three home runs: a first inning Bryce Harper solo shot, and two Michael Morse home runs.  Morse finished the night with four runs batted in.

RUF CONTINUES TO IMPRESS

-Darin Ruf had another great game, going 2-for-4 with three runs batted in.

-Ruf got the Phillies on the  board early.  In the first inning, the Phillies loaded the bases with two outs.  Ruf doubled to center field, clearing the bases.  The three runs that Ruf drove in on the play would be the only runs that the Phillies scored all night.

GAME NOTES

- Jeremy Horst, who has been terrific all year, had some trouble in the seventh inning.  He gave up a single and two walks to load the bases with no outs.  He proceeded to throw a wild pitch, which gave the Nationals a run.  Horst went 1.2 innings, allowing the run.

-Phillippe Aumont and Jake Diekman each pitched scoreless frames.

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About Amanda Orr

Amanda Orr has written 713 articles on Phillies Nation.

Amanda has been writing for Phillies Nation since 2009.

 
 
  • Posts: 2002 Brooks

    Avatar of Brooks

    Another crappy game to end this crappy season. Phils had Gio on the ropes early. Bases loaded in the first inning, men on base in the second and third – Gio was throwing a ton of pitches I think his pitch count was in the 60′s in the third inning but they calmed down. 3 up and 3 down again and again and again.. And, Cholly must have been sleeping. Why did he leave the kid Cloyd in so long? The HR that Morse hit was a blast, a serious shot.

    Fitting end to a very bad season. Good night Irene

     
  • Posts: 0 teejvee

    So what if next year’s team looked like:

    Howard, Utley, Rollins, Frandzen, Ruf, Bourn,Brown, Ruiz.

    Halladay,Lee,Hamels,Worley,Kendrick.

    Would that be competitive?

     
    • Posts: 0 Jeff Dowder

      They should want no part of Bourn. It’s a bad contract just waiting to happen. Let someone else overpay for his services. Hopefully, if RAJ has learned anything this season, it would be to avoid running the Phillies like a fantasy baseball team.

       
      • Posts: 0 George

        Totally agree on Bourn. He strikes out too much, and his numbers have declined in the second half. He’d be an expensive gamble given his age.

        But as far as running the Phils like a fantasy team, I have to disagree. If the owners are willing to spend the money, why not? The reason for this year’s decline was not the big contracts, it was the injuries. Even youthful players on budget contracts suffer injuries, and many of the Phils’ injured players (‘pen pieces, Galvis, Martinez, Schnieder, Nix) were young, cheap, or both. And now that dud players like Pence and Qualls, and lame ducks like Vic and Blanton have been traded, there’s once again a little bit of money in the till.

        I’d be fine with Amaro signing an expensive center fielder; I just don’t think it should be Bourn.

         
      • Posts: 0 schmenkman

        Bourn turns 30 in December, but I think he still has several productive years ahead of him. His strikeouts don’t bother me. Generally speaking, “an out is an out”, since the few times that strikeouts fail to move a runner are compensated for by the fact they are not double plays.

        With all that said, I agree that there is a very good chance that some team is going to pay even more than what he’s worth, and I’d rather that team not be the Phillies. It wouldn’t be the worst deal in the world, because again, I think Bourn has proven for 4 straight years now that he’s a very productive player, it just may not be the best deal they are likely to find on the FA market. Pagan or Victorino for example might provide better value for the money.

         
  • Posts: 101 pamikedc

    Avatar of pamikedc

    @Teejvee, yes- looks competitive to me.

    We just need another bullpen arm, not named Qualls

     
  • Posts: 0 lou possehl

    Game plan for Ruf:

    First of all, we are working on what is admittedly a ridiculously small sample size. Nevertheless, there are early indications that the dude can really, really hit. In which case …

    Two years trying him in LF – platooning, on/off the bench, full-time starter – whatever. If he can handle the position, he becomes a fixture there.

    If not, in ’15 he becomes 1B – with all that that implies about the current incumbent.

     
  • Posts: 1073 betasigmadeltashag

    Avatar of betasigmadeltashag

    I have been impressed with Frandzen, the guy can hit, maybe not a lot of power but I really think he can be a .300 hitter and he hits to all fields also. Also with Ruf, good plate discipline and seems like he has a pretty good baseball IQ. I have asked this question before and assuming that Frandzen can hit 290-310 and Utley and Rollins can hit 270 can the phillies be competitive with a streaky can not hit righties centerfielder that hits 250 with 18 HRs and 60 RBIs in JMJ?, and a guy like Ruf who maybe hits 250 with 25 HRs and 80 RBIs(is that too much to ask from a rookie kid playing a new position in RF) AFW withstanding you know Ryan is going to drive in Runs at 120+ pace with 30 HR. And how many on here really feel that Chase is a viable option at 3rd with Freddie coming back and playing second and batting 230?
    I really think we are going to see a huge bounce back season for Doc and Cliff next year, both these guys are competitive beyond belief and will work on whatever they need to this off season and come back next year with a huge chip on their shoulders to carry this team.
    The thing I do not think worked for them in the Cloyd guy, I think he still needs to do some work, One more thing is the pen, which I have been saying all along is a year to year crap shot, I would like to think that Aumont and Bastardo will be good next year, along with DeFentes, but I do think they need a veterens pressence out there, and think a Chad Durbin type guy is needed.

     
    • Posts: 0 brooks

      Right, let Frandsen play himself out of the position. So far, he has shown he deserves the 3rd base spot. We have other positions to be concerned about.
      I would not go so far as to project Ruf’s season (we did that with Downtown Brown, remember?).
      Phils still dont look too bad if Ryan has not gotten too old, Chase can show some semblance of his old self and Jimmy can snap to his .270 average – I like the optimism Beta, I’m with you there.
      You did not mention the return of Stutes and a healthy Worley. If the pitching can return as well, the Phils will contend again. I dont think its over – well, this year maybe.

       
      • Posts: 0 schmenkman

        brooks, with a due respect, Utley and Rollins are already at the top of their positions. All we need from them in 2013 is to stay healthy for most of the year, and not decline too much due to being a year older.

         
      • Posts: 0 brooks

        Statman, you misread me probably because I was not clear – I too believe that if the Phils stay healthy and can produce close to what we have seen from them in the past – they have a really good chance.
        If – again.
        BTW – I would not go so far as to say Rollins was at the top of his game this year. His power numbers, defense and speed yes but his batting average? This is the first full season since 2002 that he will finish under .250.
        I will say that for the time we saw Utley this year, it was terrific. It makes me wan to see him out there every day.

         
      • Posts: 0 schmenkman

        I didn’t mean that Rollins was the best he’s ever been or could possibly be, but that he was one of the best in the game at his position. And at 33, that’s all I really was hoping for.

         
      • Posts: 1048 EricL

        Avatar of EricL

        Brooks, in the future you might want to try avoiding using batting average to evaluate players; use on base percentage as a substitute. It tells you more about how good the player is at getting on base (because it also includes things like walks/HBP/etc), and since the point of an AB is to not make an out, the players who make outs at the lowest rate will have the highest OBP, although not necessarily the higher batting average.

        Chase Utley, for example, has a .261 batting average, but a .372 OBP
        Juan Pierre has a .313 batting average, but his on base % is only .355

        So in any given AB, Chase is more likely to end up on the bases, even though his batting average is 52 points lower than Pierre’s.

        (Or to use a more extreme example, Dan Uggla’s OBP is .346. His batting average is .216 – he gets on base at almost the same rate as Pierre despite having a batting average nearly 100 points lower)

        That being said, Rollins’ current OBP at .311 is the 2nd lowest of his career.

         
    • Posts: 0 Jemboy

      Another Nutjob Quote (lol!):”Ask yourselves if you are willnig to sit idly by, never questioning your own smugness, while this leviathan government slowly pulls the rug out from underneath *you* The People. When you wake up in this once-great country wondering how it became a banana republic, I hope your silly Leftwing propaganda, name-calling, and nutjob quotes will be of some comfort.” -Dawn McShuler (2009)”I believe we are slowly turning into a socialist government. The government is continually growing bigger and more powerful and the people need to prepare to defend themselves against government control.” -Timothy McVeigh (1993)btw: Dawn, I didn’t call you crazy; I merely asked if you were.

       
  • Posts: 0 BART SHART

    Reasons to be optimistic: Darin Ruf looks like a slugger and I hope he can play left field. Dom Brown has shown some discipline at the plate and deserves more of a shot in 2013. Freddy Galvis was magic defensively in the first half of the year and should be at least the utility player of the Phils next year. Kevin Fransden has looked like a hitter and has played decent third base, plus he is still young.. Kratz looks like a very good backup catcher for 2013 with some serious power. Ryan Howard is still struggling but showed an excellent home run streak a week ago and has over 50 RBI’s. Some of the young arms in the bullpen look to have some serious upside. Rollins has had a decent power year. Kendrick, despite a tough outing on Thrusday, looks like his changeup can indeed change him into a steady and solid starter. Utley is starting to look decent and everyone hopes he can put in a full year in 2013. Ruiz was fantistic and with some luck will stay healthy in 2013

     
    • Posts: 0 schmenkman

      Overall a nice summary.

      “Utley is starting to look decent and everyone hopes he can put in a full year in 2013.”

      Three true statements about Utley:

      1. He’s not the player he used to be.
      2. He’s still one of the best, and arguably THE best second baseman in the game when he’s on the field.
      3. While it would be great to get a full season from him (140+ games), in a partial season he produces more value than the vast majority of MLB second basemen would in a full season.

       
      • Posts: 0 Joey Spagna

        I see his hiney so black and shiney it makes me giggle to see it wiggle.

         
  • Posts: 0 Fritz

    Without any additions they are an average team. They need some help don’t really know how Rubin is going to get them back in the chase. I really hope he can. Go Phils!

     
    • Posts: 0 frank

      I agree. There have to be additions. Its good to be optomistic but everything has to go right. I hope I am wrong but its really possible that doc has a very tired arm and next year will be no different than this year. How many 37 year old power pitchers quickly decline. Its also possible that cliff lee is on the back side of his prime. This is still a really good team but a team getting older. They have had a lot of bad luck this year with injuries which probably will not happen next year. Lets hope we can win a championship for doc and cliff next year.

       
      • Posts: 1048 EricL

        Avatar of EricL

        To be fair, Roy Halladay really wasn’t a power pitcher until he came to Philadelphia where, at age 34, he posted the highest K/9 numbers of his career in 2011 (his 2010 K/9 was third, behind his age 24 season). During his prime (age 25-30) he only struck out ~6 batters per nine innings. He pitched a combined 445 innings over 2006-2007 and only struck out 271 batters.

        The loss of velocity is alarming, but to expect him to fall off precipitously is probably not likely because he’s always been a control/finesse/ground-ball pitcher.

         
    • Posts: 0 schmenkman

      Despite Halladay’s and Howard’s struggles, they’ve played at a 96-win pace since the all-star break. Sounds like a contender to me.

       
    • Posts: 0 Johnson

      I don’t think Pence is a bad player, it’s just that I don’t think he’s worth Brown even in a shraigtt up trade 1 for 1. Brown is a lot younger and cheaper, and should be a significantly better than Pence as soon as a year or 2 from now. Giving up Brown for Pence would be a huge mistake, and it wouldn’t take the Phillies long to regret it either.

       
  • Posts: 0 George

    The Phils will probably have to “make do” at third, as there’s not much available, but they will have to do something about the outfield. Ruf looks like a hitter so far, but he’s only started against left handed pitching, and has little experience in left field. Mayberry can’t hit righties, Schierholtz looks like a 4th outfielder, and Brown hasn’t shown that he’s a lock in right. Pierre may be gone and Nix is not a regular. A team can generally get by with one platoon but I don’t think three platoons is the way to go. For one thing, it would eat up roster space. At least there are some decent free agents, and maybe even a trade candidate or two.

    I really don’t see many issues with the rest of the team. Last season, 102 wins were obtained with basically no production at third, and no production at second for the first several weeks, and J.C. Romero doing a Chad Qualls impersonation in the bullpen early on.

     
  • Posts: 5354 Lefty

    Avatar of Lefty

    You know what, I have to admit that I don’t like the big name 2013 Outfield FA’s all that much.

    I like Nick Swisher, but it’s reported he wants a “Jayson Werth like” contract. Heck if they’re going to give someone a contract like that, why didn’t they just give it to Jayson? Both are too much for the production value.

    BJ Upton- meh, might as well bring Vic back for that production.

    I don’t care for Bourn that much, with the exception of RBI and and being a good fielder, his stats look a lot like Juan Pierre’s :-) Kidding obviously he’s way better than Juan, but the stats are eerily similar. I don’t what he’s asking, but I’d imagine this being his big chance, it won’t be economical.

    So who else is out there?

    I’d really like it if we could make a splashy trade for Headly or Beltre, and then just go with Ruf, Brown, and a Mayberry platoon (with anyone not named Martinez) in the outfield.

    But please don’t ask me who we’d trade, or how we’d pry those guys away from their teams, I don’t know, I’m just dreaming I guess.

     
    • Posts: 1048 EricL

      Avatar of EricL

      Melky Cabrera is very likely to be available and will probably come at a pretty steep discount, at least compared to what he would have commanded had the season ended two months ago.

      Swisher is probably going to be expensive and doesn’t help address the hole in CF.

      Bourn will also probably be quite expensive, and because most of his value is tied to his speed, I have concerns about him on a longer-contract, which I’m sure Mr. Boras will demand.

      Hamilton will be available, but again, he’s going to be very expensive, is on the wrong side of 30 and is injury prone.

      Cody Ross will be available, but he’s just a rich-man’s John Mayberry; Angel Pagan will also probably be available and will perhaps come cheap, at least compared to most of the marquee names.

      Tori Hunter, at age 37, is quietly having another very good season, and he too might be available on a cheap(er), short-term deal.

      Upton, I think, is sort of like a younger Victorino, but who doesn’t get on base quite as often as Victorino does and strikes out a lot. He’s really weird. In 2007/2008 he got on base at a .380ish clip, and walked a lot. This year he walks very infrequently and his OBP has fallen below .300. Maybe that helps keep his potential salary down? Maybe not though.

      And finally, there’s Victorino, who may well come at a pretty big discount because of the bad season he’s having, at least compared to his previous production. Couple that with a potential “hometown” discount, and I think Amaro probably pick up Melky Cabrera AND Shane and still stay reasonably close to being under the luxury tax threshold.

       
      • Posts: 5354 Lefty

        Avatar of Lefty

        Not bad. I’m old school and really hate that Melky’s performance was enhanced. I realize that there are probably many more we don’t know about, I just- I don’t know, he got caught.

        I hate Cody Ross, no explanation needed.

        Pagan is intriguing.

        Torii ( 2 i’s, don’t ask me why) Hunter had a very LOUD, and very good season for my fantasy team this year. 5.1 WAR is nothing to sneeze at. But did it help him getting to hit between two of the best players in the game, Trout and Pujols? Cost and age might make me shy away.

        Hamilton is interesting, I think he will be displeased by the offers he gets by leery teams, and likely go back to Texas.

        I’m not a huge Fransden fan although if it worked out, it would be economical. I don’t believe he can keep his BABIP up, his defense is so so, and he’s neither a power hitter or a speedster. I really want them to go after a 3B even though Ruben says he’s not. Vic and a trade for Beltre would do. I know, I know, it’s crazy- but Texas has to bring up Olt, and they don’t seem to want to trade him.

        Armchair GM’s, don’t you just love them? i just hope whatever they do will work.

         
      • Posts: 1048 EricL

        Avatar of EricL

        Personally, I think I’m okay with Frandsen at third with maybe a LH bench guy platoon or the occasional use of Galvis there as a stopgap for this season, provided they upgrade the outfield a bit. Frandsen won’t be a .300 hitter over the course of a whole season, but I think he can probably provide something like a .265/.305/.350 in regular playing time. That’s far better offensively than Galvis or Martinez is going to give you offensively, and similar to what Polanco’s provided over the last few years (albeit with stellar defense, which Frandsen won’t provide)

        I’m just concerned about the cost of acquiring a 3B, when there look to be some intriguing prospects on the horizon. Cody Asche is probably one good year at AAA away from being a top-level 3B prospect. I’m okay with a stop-gap year of Frandsen+ to see what we have there, and am a little hesitant to part with a lot of young talent to bring in a guy like Beltre or Headley, both of whom are going to be much more expensive (both in terms of prospects and salary commitment) than going with what is currently available and looking to improve the OF.

        While Torii’s does play in a stacked lineup, his numbers aren’t much different than what he’s put up over the last few years, and really even in his prime – only his speed and power have declined a bit, but he still gets on base a lot and is one of the better options out there. I tend to think that his age is one of the reasons why he’ll be one of the cheaper options for CF this year (plus, it doesn’t hurt that there’s a glut of CF hitting the market this season). If I had to order the OF crop this year in terms of value per dollar spent, I’d probably say it ends up being : Melky, Victorino, Upton, Hunter, Pagan, Hamilton, Ross, Swisher, Bourn. That’s not to say those guys at the bottom of that list won’t produce, I just think they’ll end up being the most overpaid for what they bring to the table.

        As for Melky, well, if he has a post-steroid year like Ryan Braun’s post-steroid year I’d certainly want to it to be for the Phils, and I do think the PED stigma is going to drastically suppress his cost.

         
  • Posts: 0 teejvee

    Lefty- I agree with your splashy trade approach. I think the only tradeable commodity is Halladay., but I’m not even sure you could get much for him.

     
  • Posts: 5354 Lefty

    Avatar of Lefty

    Ryan Howard’s season is over. Broken toe.

     
    • Posts: 5354 Lefty

      Avatar of Lefty

      Should have sourced that. -Gelb

       
      • Posts: 1048 EricL

        Avatar of EricL

        at this point I can’t do anything other than just laugh.

         
      • Posts: 5354 Lefty

        Avatar of Lefty

        Well, then laugh some more-

        Tyler Cloyd’s season is over, too. Tired arm. No starter yet for Tuesday. “Maybe it’ll be a position player,” Rich Dubee quipped. Gelb

         
      • Posts: 2886 Chuck A.

        Avatar of Chuck A.

        HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

        Was that hearty and loud enough??

         
      • Posts: 0 EricL

        Eh, no big loss. Cloyd hasn’t exactly lit the world on fire his last few outings anyway

         
 
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