Hot Stove: Phils Offered Ichiro $14 Million
Posted by Ian Riccaboni, Thu, December 13, 2012 10:00 AM | Comments: 43
Analysis, Offseason, Rumors
Update, 12:40 pm Thursday: According to Buster Olney of ESPN, the Phillies offered Ichiro a two year, $14 million contract before he decided to stay with the Yankees.
Wow. Really? Ichiro is one of the best to ever suit up, but $14 million at 39 years old is extreme. The guy got on-base at just over .300 last season and has a career slugging percentage of just .414. How he fits in an outfield with Ben Revere makes little sense, especially at that price.
If this report is true, thankfully the Yankees got him.
-Pat Gallen
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Ichiro Likely Headed to Yankees, Phillies Offer Pushed Yanks to Two Years
Fox Sports’ Ken Rosenthal tweeted that Ichiro Suzuki will sign with the Yankees yesterday evening. David Waldstein of the New York Times tweeted yesterday that the Phillies were “making (a) big push” for Ichiro and their offer has pushed the Yankees to offer Ichiro a second year. No agreement has been signed yet, per Waldstein, however, the two sides are expected to announce an official agreement some time this week.
Cleveland Hot and Heavy on Swisher
ESPN’s Jim Bowden reported late last night that the Cleveland Indians are in hot pursuit of outfielder Nick Swisher. Swisher is a targeted and coveted by the Phillies, Red Sox, Mariners, Rangers, and others. The Indians are seeking Swisher to replace the recently-traded Shin-Soo Choo.
Phils Were in On Lefty Reliever Burnett
Fox Sports’ Jon Paul Morosi reported yesterday that the Phillies had interest in left reliever Sean Burnett, who ended up signing with the Angels yesterday. Morosi accurately noted the peculiarity of the move, noting that the Phillies already employ lefties Antonio Bastardo, Jeremy Horst, and Raul Valdes. The Phillies also have Jake Diekman and Joe Savery from the left side in their back pocket, as well. The news of this has led people to believe that one or any of the lefty relievers the Phillies employ may be on the trading block, however, Burnett has a longer track record than any of the pitchers listed above and is coming off a career year. He would be a solid pick-up for most Major League teams regardless of how many lefties they employ.
Mets Get Closer with Hairston, Phils Also Interested
Adam Rubin of ESPN New York is reporting that the Mets are close to bringing back outfielder Scott Hairston. Hairston has been linked to the Phillies, Yankees, Giants, and Cardinals this offseason and is seeking a two-plus year deal.
Dempster Close to Agreement with Red Sox
Ken Rosenthal of Fox Sports is reporting this morning that Ryan Dempster is close to a deal with the Red Sox. Dempster was the winner of the informal Phillies Nation reader straw poll for which starter should the Phillies pursue on our Facebook fan page.
Posts: 0 CS
He would’ve been a solid batter. But it seems like we already got him in Ben Revere and in our rule five pick so I don’t know why we were so pursuing him
Posted: 12:10 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 hk
It’s good to see that RAJ is leaving no stone un-turned in his quest to increase the age of the roster. Rumor has it that he wants to see what Jamie Moyer has left in the tank.
Posted: 12:55 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 1079 EricL
What the hell is RTJ doing?
Posted: 01:00 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 3479 Lefty
Does Olney know when the offer was made? It’s possible that it could have been before the Revere trade, at which point they likely pulled the offer.
Posted: 01:01 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 bacardipr
Good point Lefty. Although maybe Rube is going into a different direction. Maybe he is thinking if he could get slap hits from Revere and Ichiro he can keep the inning going and score some runs. Makes sense Revere single steals seconds Ichiro singles Revere home. Perhaps Rube is thinking outside the box instead of relying on the HR ball as in past….PS…Ichiro OBP was .340 according to BR last year. Balances out the lineup between Howard’s K and J-Roll popups.
Posted: 01:16 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 1079 EricL
His OBP was only .307 last season. It was .340 for the Yankees, but it was .288 for the Mariners, for whom he played the majority of his games.
Posted: 01:54 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 Bart Shart
PREDICTION: The Phils will sign Delmon Young to a three year deal worth $24 million, with another three million in incentives each year. He will be 28 next year, he can hit, and if motivated could help this club a lot.
He is, however, a fat bigot. But as long as he behaves himself, applies himself and avoids too many cheesesteaks and pretzels and keeps his weight under control, the it might make sense to sign him.
Posted: 01:16 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 531 schmenkman
“he can hit”
Bart, I strongly disagree.
Posted: 01:22 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 531 schmenkman
Tim Brown is reporting that Hamilton is close to signing with the Angels: https://twitter.com/TBrownYahoo/status/279298904091131905
Posted: 02:09 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 Mike in NJ
*sigh* Is RAJ determined to make this the oldest team in history?!? Ichiro is a fine player even at his age, but he’s neither a RH or power bat. I’m glad he resigned with the Yanks. WTH is going on?
Posted: 02:12 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 Don M
That’s insane… 5 years for Hamilton … which means the Bourjos is probably available again, right . .. . . . . or Trumbo !?
Posted: 02:29 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 28 landshark
RAJ is really screwing up here…I understand he saved a butt load of money this offseason so far, but he missed out on Hamilton to the Dam* rangers! The Rangers? Seriously? Who already have pujols, trumbo, and Now Hamilton? That’s three Mvps and one bomb ass lineup…while the phillies sit here declining power, practically a few years away from retirement. The only logical thing to do here is trade for granderson. Give up Dom brown, Ruff, and whoever else we need to pull the trigger. That’s a main priority if we want to compete this season.
Posted: 02:35 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 1079 EricL
Hey, whaddaya want from Amaro? It’s not like he’s sitting on his hands. He offered Ichiro 2 years for 14 million. Just got turned down, is all.
Posted: 02:57 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 Phil
Landshark trumbo is just good. You are forgetting trout the best player in baseball last year. And he signed with the angels. Also nobody wants 1 year of granderson for ruf who has potential to be better than him
Posted: 02:45 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 28 landshark
Why would trumbo be available? He’s costing them next to nothing, and is IMO the top three best players in baseball. The Angels might even have all the whole top 3 best players in baseball right now. The Angels would NEVER part with trumbo ( even though he is a NJ native and die hard phillies fan)
Posted: 02:47 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 28 landshark
That’s who I meant…Trout. I always get their names confused, but yea! Both trout and trumbo. Selig should have declined that move lol
Posted: 02:49 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 CS
Grandyman’s not avail now unless the yankees want swisher back.
Posted: 02:52 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 phil
Why? The angels can sign whoever they want. And trout if trout has a season anywhere close to last year next year he is the best player in baseball by a landslide.
Posted: 02:52 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 Mike in NJ
WIP is reporting Hamilton has signed with the Angels 5yr/$125M. They also said the Angels have already said Trumbo is NOT available for trade.
Posted: 02:54 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 Bob in Bucks
The timing on the Ichiro offer is important. If before Revere it might make sense. After Revere, I don’t get it.
Posted: 02:58 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 Don M
I just jumped to conclusion that Trumbo might be made available
They have Bourojs CF, Trumbo RF, Morales DH…. listed on their depth chart.. a depth chart that has Joe Blanton as their #4 pitcher…
Hamilton will probably be part-time OF, and part-time DH … either way, one of those players should be made available for a better Starting Pitcher (not that the Phillies have one to offer).. but their rotation of Weaver, Wilson, Hanson (injury risk), Blanton, and Richards/Williams?? leaves a lot to be desired with a lineup like that ….
Posted: 03:00 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 landshark
Trumbo is a 1B/3B. I don’t think he plays OF, so that wouldn’t make sense for the Phillies
Posted: 03:05 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 531 schmenkman
He is a 1B/OF who they’ve tried at 3rd with bad results. This year he had 66 games in LF, 35 games in RF, 21 at first, and 8 at third.
Posted: 03:10 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 hk
Actually, since the Angels have Pujols at 1B and Trumbo turned out to be an absolute butcher at 3B, he played mostly OF this year.
Posted: 03:10 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 1079 EricL
I have it on good authority that your team can go very far into the playoffs–make the World Series even–with an absolute butcher at third base.
Posted: 03:55 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 hk
EricL,
For the sake of the 2013 Phillies, I hope you are right. Do you think that the Angels are going to move Trumbo back to 3B or trade Bourjos and go with Hamilton in RF, Trout in CF and Trumbo in LF?
Posted: 04:08 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 1079 EricL
Honestly, I think the probably try to move Morales, open up the DH spot for Pujols/Trumbo and keep Bourjos’ defense in the OF.
I think the Angels understand the value of mid 20′s, cheap, productive players, which is what they need if they’re going to have multiple guys at an AAV of $25 million. DiPoto is a pretty bright, progressive baseball guy (as compared to the vast majority of front offices).
Posted: 04:23 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 Don M
Bill James projection for Kendrys Morales … (in 521 plate appearances).. 23 HRs… .821 OPS
for Mark Trumbo … (584 PAs).. is 31 HR… .810 OPS
both are arbitration eligible players. .. both should have a lot of value on the trade market, though more to AL teams because they’re DH types (or is Morales healthy again and able to go back to playing the field full time??)
Posted: 04:53 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 1079 EricL
Trumbo’s a lot younger and a lot cheaper and has a lot more upside. If they’re going to deal one, I doubt it’ll be him.
Morales was never much of a fielder. He played something like 25 games in right a few years ago if I recall correctly, but really, he’s a first-baseman if you must play him in the field, especially so post-injury.
Posted: 05:07 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 515 \"Big Ed\" Delahanty
Espn.com is also reporting that Hamilton is “a go” with the Angels. RAJ missed a golden opportunity to sign Hamilton. I know the guy is a risk with his issues, but he would be an incredible boost to our line-up (despite being left-handed), instead the team gets older, rides into the season with many unknowns (Ruff, Brown, Mayberry, even Revere) and a number five starter and possible set-up man, though I like Horst as a bridge to Pyschotron (Papelbon). For all the aggressive and gun-slinging signings (Pap), trades (Pence), and ridiculous contracts (Howard), the one time I want Ruben to resemble his old self in the pursuit of Hamilton, he becomes conservative. Mind-blowing. I’m sure many will disagree, but I am really pissed.
Posted: 03:03 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 landshark
I think Granderson is available for the right price…Unless RAJ really has really high expectations for Ruff (I do as well in some way). If we don’t make a push for Granderson, we need to skip on Swisher, Bourn, Soriano, and even Ross unless he takes a 1-2 year deal can be had for less than 15 mil for 2 years. Sign an under radar pitcher, and a decent bullpen arm and call it a wrap. Save some of that money for next season
Posted: 03:03 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 LouisianaPhan
Save it for who next season? I don’t see any prospective free agents in the crop next year that would help us. Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems like RAJ missed out on an opportunity here to significantly improve the ball club
Posted: 03:41 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 landshark
I agree totally…Raj struck out, not only did he strike out…He pulled a Ryan Howard last at bat in the playoffs and twisted his ankle lol. No but seriously, he screwed up big time here! I know there isn’t many good free agents available this season, and very thin next season, BUT WHY spend the money if you don’t have to? Don’t break both ankles
Posted: 03:57 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 531 schmenkman
“Struck out”?
With 2 months before pitchers and catchers report, I see it as an 0-1 count.
He didn’t HAVE to add an outfielder, or really any offense at all, as long as he improved the team some other way.
And if DOESN’T improve the team, that would be a missed opportunity, perhaps, but then he would go into 2013 with the team that played at a 95-win pace in the second half.
Posted: 04:24 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 1079 EricL
Schmenk, as much as I agree with you on basically most things Phillies related, I think the “95-win pace” second half is kind of a canard. In order to believe that that’s legitimate, you have to assume that Utley and Howard will be at or near 100% for most of the season, that Young will replicate the value you got out of the third base position, that Kendrick will repeat his stellar 2nd half (and double it into a full season’s worth), that Kratz and Ruiz will continue to post career-high type numbers, and that Ruf continues to do his impression of Manny Ramierz or whatever.
In short, yes, they played well down the stretch, but use that as a basis for optimism for this year in the face of seemingly little improvement seems, to me, to be a stretch.
Posted: 05:03 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 531 schmenkman
Eric, Yes, I am assuming that Utley and (esp.) Howard will be healthy for most of the season.
Also:
- Frandsen only started 49 games, so all third basemen combined (incl. Polanco, Orr, Martinez) had a .726 OPS in the second half. Young should come close to that, at least.
- Kratz, Ruiz, and a little Schneider had a combined .772 OPS. Again, should be achievable.
- I don’t expect Kendrick to be as good, but I do expect Halladay to be better
- Ruf had a total of 37 plate appearances — not a major impact
Posted: 05:17 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 George
EricL:
You do not have to assume that Utley and Howard will be at or near 100% for most of the season, because they weren’t even close last year during the Phils’ 95 win second half pace. Third base, too, was such a disaster with Polanco’s injuries and Wigginton’s, Orr’s, and Fontenot’s iron gloves and mediocre hitting should be easily duplicated or even improved by Young. Also during part of that good stretch, Worley was doing poorly and was finally replaced by the ineffective Cloyd, and Halladay was pitching as badly as he’s ever pitched in the majors.
Posted: 05:38 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 1079 EricL
Here’s a fun thing to compare:
Ryan Howard’s 5 year, $125 million dollar extension kicked in in his age 32 season. In his age 31 season he hit: .253/.346/.488, was worth 0.9 rWAR/1.7 fWAR, with 33 HR, 122 RBI, for people who like those kinds of stats.
Josh Hamilton’s 5-year, $125 million dollar contract will start in his age 32 season. In his age 31 season he hit: .285/.354/.577, was worth 3.4 rWAR/4.4 fWAR, with 43 HR, 128 RBI.
Albert Pujols 10 year, $250 million dollar contract started in his age 32 season. In his age 31 season he hit: .299/.366/.541, was worth 5.1 rWAR/5.0 fWAR, with 37 HR, 99 RBI.
Hamilton’s contract looks pretty darn reasonable in that light.
Posted: 03:04 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 hk
That’s like saying, the neighbor to the left of me paid $50,000 for a Corolla, the neighbor to the right of me paid $100,000 for an Avalon, so I did well to pay $50,000 for a Camry.
Posted: 03:09 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 Don M
Does the Camry average 44 HRs per season?
Posted: 03:16 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 hk
Don M,
I do not think average means what you think it means. He hit 142 HR’s in 5 seasons in Texas, an average of 28.4, playing in a hitter’s park. Plus, he’s at the age where most players begin to decline, so I’ll take the under if you’re setting it at 220 HR’s during the life of the contract.
Posted: 03:48 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 1079 EricL
Greatest RH hitter in the history of baseball != Toyota Avalon.
Regardless, for the Phillies, they are in a position with respect to their TV contract and recent loss of TV ratings that makes those last few marginal wins that they add MUCH more valuable than they are to the typical non-playoff team OR to a playoff team that has already signed a highly-lucrative TV deal.
Posted: 03:53 PM on December 13, 2012
Posts: 0 hk
Greatest RH hitter in the history of baseball!…on a 10 year contract for his age 32 to age 41 seasons = Toyota Avalon, but that’s not really the point. The point is that DiPoto overpaid Hamilton. Maybe not by as much as he overpaid Pujols and maybe not by as much as RAJ overpaid Howard, but he still overpaid him.
Posted: 04:02 PM on December 13, 2012