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Lee’s DL Stay Longer than 15 Days

Posted by Pat Gallen, Tue, May 27, 2014 07:54 AM | Comments: 26
Analysis, News, Opinion, Posts

Cliff Lee said he was still feeling discomfort in his left elbow after being reexamined by the team on Monday. It appears his disabled list-stint will last longer than the minimum 15 days. The team will reevaluate their star pitcher again later this week.

Lee told the media “They decided to let me wait until I have no symptoms to start throwing. I pretty much agree with that and it makes sense.”

This hurts the Phillies two-fold.

As they attempt to tread water and keep pace with the wild card leaders, doing so without their ace will prove to be a daunting task.

As they near the trade deadline, Lee represents their best trade chip. However, the longer this lingers, the less and less he’ll be able to fetch the Phillies in return should he OK a trade to a contending team.

 

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About Pat Gallen

Pat Gallen has written 1684 articles on Phillies Nation.

Pat is Editor-in-Chief of Phillies Nation. He also covers the Phils for 97.5 FM in Philly.

 
 
  • Posts: 5226 Lefty

    Avatar of Lefty

    From MLBTR

    -Perhaps of greater interest (and perhaps to the dismay) of Phillies fans, is the following quote from Amaro: “I don’t know if we’ll completely ‘sell’ ever. We can revamp, but we can’t completely sell out. We have to have a contending team in 2015 or ’16 — or at least a competitive team.”-

     
    • Posts: 0 Skylar0201

      This is because Amaro is still in love with the 2008 team so he’s keeping players from it after they go well beyond their prime.

      I said it then and I’ll say it again: his worst mistake are all these multi-year contracts he has dished out. We’ll never be able to unload these overpaid stars because outside of Amaro, nobody else in their right mind wiuld want any of them outside of Lee and maybe Utley.

      When Amaro said last winter after our 3rd staight sliding season that he was tendering contracts to Kendrick and Mayberry; without even negotiating them, that displayed his competence perfectly.

       
      • Posts: 5226 Lefty

        Avatar of Lefty

        Skylar,
        That’s a familiar and common take. My only problem with it is that I don’t believe Major League Baseball General Managers can afford to be motivated by “love” of players. I do think that Ruben Amaro is motivated by keeping his family fed, much more so than by his loyalty to former players.

        I also think there may be truth in some of what you said. I think in his zeal too keep his job, Amaro has kept players past their prime because that is what the ownership team as a whole has asked him to do. I think he knows how to keep his job. Just my opinion mind you.

         
    • Posts: 0 Scotty Ingerton

      That’s pretty much been Amaro’s mantra over the past few seasons. The 2015 & 2016 teams will be just as “competitive” as the 2012-2014 teams.

      It’s time to seriously explore moving Utley, Lee (if healthy), and Hamels. They’ve all been great players, but this team won’t be a contender within the next four or five seasons, and they’re the only guys with real trade value.

       
      • Posts: 0 Hogey's Role

        Utley isn’t going anywhere unless he wants to, he has a no trade clause…

        As a whole, and a healthy whole, this doesn’t look like a terrible team, but slumps and injuries have hurt us, so we sit where we’re at… I don’t see us trading hamels and I am about 90% sure we probably will not deal cliff lee again…. Most trades rarely work out for the team that recieves prospects…

         
      • Posts: 0 Scotty Ingerton

        They all have no trade clauses, which doesn’t mean they can’t/won’t be traded. I suspect that all three of those guys would like to see the post season again before their careers end. It’s not going to happen here.

        As far as prospects, I’d take my chances on an Oscar Taveras or Joc Pederson anytime. It’s worth the chance, because this team isn’t contending anytime soon.

         
      • Posts: 5226 Lefty

        Avatar of Lefty

        Lee for Tavares is a real good deal for the Phillies, maybe a little too good to actually happen though.

         
      • Posts: 0 Hogey's Role

        Never gonna happen

         
      • Posts: 0 Scotty Ingerton

        It could happen if the Phillies picked up most of the money owed to Lee. At this point, why wouldn’t they? It’s a sunk cost. The Cardinals already have a logjam in the OF at the big league level, and have Tavares, Piscotty, and Grichuk waiting in the wings. Meanwhile, the Phillies outfielder of the future is ?????

         
      • Posts: 0 George

        The Cards have an outfield surplus, but with their present staff, they certainly don’t need another pitcher, and especially not an aging pitcher with a contract the size of Cliff Lee’s.

         
      • Posts: 0 wbramh

        Scotty: There are currently 4 teams in the AL West alone who have a shot at a pennant and probably 8 or 9 who will probably still be within a a game of each other come September…10 if the Red Sox recover from their terrible start (as the Dodgers accomplished last year).

        If one or two of those teams, notably the Yankees and Angels, believe Cliff Lee could mean the difference between a pennant and going home, or will send them deeper into the playoffs, I believe they’ll be happy to both offer the Phillies top prospects and pay for all or most of his salary.

        Just my opinion, of course but adding Cliff will be hard for many of the top tier teams to turn down, especially considering the rash of injuries to starters.

         
  • Posts: 0 Scotty Ingerton

     
  • Posts: 0 George

    My opinion: the fans always seem to think Lee would bring back a ton of good prospects. I think that’s wishful thinking. He’s agin, has now shown a sign of that aging with his recent elbow problem, and he still is owed a lot of money. Teams are no longer as interested in giving up millions of dollars and their future prospects in hopes of winning it all now; they’ve wised up to the fact that the postseason is largely a matter of chance.

    In Lee’s case, I think it’ll be a matter of either eating some money or losing out on the very best prospects. There will be teams who want him, but will want him only on their own terms.

     
    • Posts: 0 Scotty Ingerton

      It’s one prospect, not “a ton of good prospects”. If you have a chance to get a top 5 prospect (Taveras), yes you pick up 90% of Lee’s money. It’s a no-brainer. They’re not winning with Lee this year. They’re not winning with Lee in 2015. They’re not winning with Lee in 2016.

       
      • Posts: 0 George

        Maybe you think it’s only one, but I’m sure there are people who think it’ll be a ton, based simply on what used to happen a few years back.

        Personally, I believe Taveras is a huge injury risk. Amaro would be an idiot to pay out most of Lee’s money to the Cards so Taveras could rot on the DL.

        And I also think even one great prospect will be hard to grab given Lee’s age and contract.

        My point, in case you missed it, is that too many people place an unrealistic value on Lee. Your “one prospect” and “if they pick up 90%…” statements is really simply agreeing with what I said about his worth.

         
      • Posts: 0 George

        I also said any trade will be on the other team’s terms. Wouldn’t eating 90% of Lee’s contract be “other team’s terms?”

         
  • Posts: 0 George

    “agin” should read “aging.”

     
  • Posts: 0 wbramh

    It was much easier in the days of Branch Rickey to trade a player for future value. Now, with the vesting of durable veterans it ‘s not so easy to trade a player “one year too early” as was Rickey’s mantra. A GM has to consider moving perfectly good pieces at least two years early and/or stock the club with one-year contracts to avoid tying up good money on bad investments. Unless you’re Cashman and you’re fine with paying the maximum luxury tax penalty year after year (since around 2001).

    While the Red Sox have been willing to follow the Yankees into debt they know they can’t compete for the top FAs in the long run and have smartly developed their farm system. The Dodgers, on the other hand, now have a lot of money and very fine crop of fine talent emerging from within their organization. With the right people by the helm, I believe they are destined to become the next great dynasty in the National League.

    Certainly, if the As, Brewers and Cards can turn out a good to great product in today’s baseball world, the Phillies can build a competitive team even easier… but will they? IMO, not if their front office truly believes they can cobble together a another championship from the meat left on the bones of old legends.

     
    • Posts: 0 George

      I’m not real sure the front office really believes they can “cobble together” anything with what’s left. It’s more like they know they’ll have to, because there’s probably not enough meat on those bones for anyone else to be all that interested.

      The Phils are pretty much stuck right now, and I blame it not so much on aging veterans as the inabilty of the scouting department to find good prospects. It’s not the Utleys and Lees that have brought this year’s team down, it’s the Browns and other younger players. One can say that Amaro traded off too many prospects, but one could also say that most of those prospects wouldn’t have helped much. I’ve yet to figure out why so many Phils draft choices don’t make the grade, or only rise to bench warming spots when teams like the Cards seem to pull players out of thin air.

       
  • Posts: 5226 Lefty

    Avatar of Lefty

    Clearly, according to the quote above, they are not going to do a major sell off. But they might consider a single piece like Lee, if he would approve. But that’s the other obstacle.

    Lee stated that he picked to play here over the teams like the Yankees both because he thought he could win here, and also because his wife and family felt comfortable living here. Based on his actions in the past, I’m not sure Lee would be willing to make his family to move, or move away from them, even to win a championship. Only one way to find out I guess, – ask him.

     
  • Posts: 0 Terry

    Still not sure why everybody thinks letting Utley, Rollins, Ruiz ans such is the key to being competitive. In my opinion the bullpen is the real key to the downward slide of the team. If the pen could have held 1/2 the games the blew last year we were looking at a potential post season chance. Do you seriously want to wait another 5 years for prospects to possibly pan out with a few more veteran signings to make up for trades. The one thing I do agree with is Howard has not been worth the money tome or effort

     
  • Posts: 0 bacardipr

    I already figured something like this happen. But yeah i t will hurt any possible trade possibilities. This probably can turn into Halladay Part Deux come next year.

     
  • Posts: 0 teejayvee

    There is not one player on this team other than Utley and Hamels, that any other team would be willing to give up major pieces for, and that includes a healthy Lee.

     
    • Posts: 0 schmenkman

      Rollins has been the second best shortstop on the planet overall so far this year (although far behind Tulo), so there may be some interest there as well.

       
  • Posts: 0 teejayvee

    No team will trade major pieces of their farm system for Rollins

     
  • Posts: 0 Hogey's Role

    Lol utley Rollins Ruiz Howard hamels lee… Those guys are going absolutely nowhere, news flash everybody

     
 
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