Categories: Best Of 2023Former Phillies News

Former Phillies Friday: Bobby Abreu talks HOF, Rollins, Utley and Rolen

Bobby Abreu is one of the greatest players in Phillies history. (Chuck Solomon/SI/Icon SMI)

Bobby Abreu is always smiling. He always smiled as a player, which sometimes rubbed Philadelphia Phillies fans the wrong way depending upon the situation of the game. But 17 years after he last suited up in red pinstripes, Abreu looks almost exactly the same, and the smile hasn’t wavered.

And frankly, there’s plenty of reason for Abreu to smile. Perhaps more than anyone that played during his era, time has been kind to Abreu’s legacy. If you like to judge a player based on back-of-the-baseball-card stats, Abreu’s are likely much better than you remember. If you prefer to take a more analytical approach, Abreu grades out extremely well in that regard too. It’s one of the reasons that his Hall of Fame case — which a majority of people may have scoffed at 10 years ago — has become an interesting debate in recent years.

During Alumni Weekend at Citizens Bank Park, Abreu sat down with Phillies Nation to discuss his case for Cooperstown, along with his thoughts on three of his former teammates who are regularly mentioned in the Hall of Fame discussion.

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Scott Rolen

Rolen had a scheduling conflict that didn’t allow him to attend Alumni Weekend, but the recently-inducted Hall of Famer will be placed onto the Phillies Wall of Fame prior to the team’s game against the New York Mets on Friday, Sept. 22.

Prior to Ruly Carpenter and John Quinn being placed onto the Wall of Fame last Saturday, public address announcer Dan Baker mentioned Rolen’s name, which earned boos from at least half the fans in attendance. More than 20 years after an ugly exit culminated in Rolen being traded to the St. Louis Cardinals, there is still bad blood from at least some Phillies fans.

Perhaps the Phillies will end up being thankful that there won’t be local TV coverage that evening, as Apple TV+ is set to broadcast the game exclusively, which could mean that Rolen’s ceremony — likely to include at least some boos — may not be televised.

But whatever ill will there was between Rolen, manager Larry Bowa, general manager Ed Wade and the Phillies fanbase in July of 2002, Abreu raved about the star third baseman when his recent Hall of Fame induction was mentioned.

“I’m so happy for him,” Abreu said. “He worked hard for it. I mean, he deserved to be in the Hall of Fame. He’s got pretty good numbers. That’s the guy … he’s got such good talent … he knows what to do on the field … he respects the game very well. And what he always had in his mind is winning, and trying to do the best hitting for the team to win the game.

“He deserves it, and I’m very, very happy for him,” Abreu continued. “And Scott, if you hear this, I’m happy for you mi amigo and congratulations.”

When the Phillies acquired Abreu from the Tampa Bay Devil Rays shortly after the 1997 MLB Expansion Draft, they paired him with Rolen, the reigning NL Rookie of the Year. While it wasn’t an era that had much team success, Abreu and Rolen were teammates from 1998 until the latter was traded in July of 2002. And they formed one of the best one-two punches in baseball at that time.

Both were outshined during the Steroid Era and buried on a team that acted as though it played in a “small market,” which is probably why their Hall of Fame cases have been so polarizing to many. But for what it’s worth, FanGraphs

says that between April of 1998 and when Rolen was traded to St. Louis in the summer of 2002, Abreu ranked eighth in WAR among all position players, while Rolen checked in at 12th (25.6)

On His Own Hall Of Fame Case

In a July press conference at Cooperstown, Rolen was asked what former teammates of his he would like to see join him in the Hall of Fame. Obviously, Albert Pujols and Yadier Molina will one day also be enshrined in Cooperstown. But Rolen mentioned Abreu as someone he believes is deserving.

While Abreu may not have as many who have rallied around his Hall of Fame case as Rolen did, he received 15.4% of the vote in 2023, his fourth year on the ballot.

“What I think is that’s always a place that you always want to be,” Abreu said. “Every player wants to be in the Hall of Fame.”

Jay Jaffe of FanGraphs is among the most notable supporters of Abreu’s Hall of Fame case. Former manager Larry Bowa has said he believes Abreu is worthy of induction. There are at least some percentage of respected voices willing to bang the table for Abreu.

Reasonable minds can disagree about whether Abreu ultimately deserves to get in, but the right fielder’s time on the ballot has served as another reminder of how underappreciated he was during his career.

Again, if you like back-of-the-baseball-card stats, Abreu shines there. He finished his career with a slash line of .291/.395/.476 with 2,470 hits and 400 stolen bases. He drove in 100 or more runs on eight occasions. He stole 30 or more bases in six separate seasons, peaking at 40 in 2004 with the Phillies. The only right fielders in MLB history with more walks than Abreu (1,476) are Babe Ruth, Mel Ott and Stan Musial, three slam-dunk Hall of Famers.

Abreu also does well in regards to analytical numbers. According to Baseball Reference, his 60.2 WAR tops Hall of Fame right fielders Vladimir Guerrero, Chuck Klein, Elmer Flick, Sam Rice and Tony Olivia. The average WAR 7 — a player’s top seven single-season WAR totals combined — is 42.4, just slightly above Abreu’s 41.6.

Are there arguments that have been deployed successfully against Abreu? Sure. More traditional voters will write him off given that he only made two All-Star Game appearances and won only one Silver Slugger Award. The Gold Glove Award Abreu took home in 2005 — seemingly a late-prime acknowledgement from writers that they had overlooked Abreu as a player for too long, even if he wasn’t deserving of this specific award — is widely considered to have been a mistake. Defensive runs saved weren’t tracked until 2002, Abreu’s age-28 season, but he finished his career with -71 DRS.

In some senses, there needs to be more nuance applied. To call All-Star Game voting — which happens halfway through the season and was even more flawed before the average fan had access to sites like FanGraphs and Baseball Reference — would be generous. If Abreu put up the numbers he did between 1998 and 2010 in today’s game, he probably would have played in the midsummer classic at least five times. For much of his peak, he was competing with players credibly accused of using performance-enhancing drugs that put up video-game numbers, including Sammy Sosa at his position of right field. He didn’t ever finish in the top 10 in NL or AL MVP voting, but a decent amount of that can probably be written off as him playing in the Steroid Era. There have never been any allegations of Abreu using performance-enhancing drugs.

The truth is, you can make credible arguments for and against Abreu as a Hall of Famer. He’s hopeful to see a meteoric rise in voting the longer he stays on the ballot — which isn’t impossible given that such a scenario allowed Rolen to get elected and has put another former teammate, closer Billy Wagner, on the cusp of baseball immortality.

“The numbers, they are right there, you know? I’ve gotten 15% so far, and I’ve got to wait and see how it’s going to come up,” Abreu said. “I hope every year it’s going to grow, and get some more percentage [of the vote]. [I have] five more years, and well, I think I just have to wait to see what’s going to happen.”

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On Jimmy Rollins And Chase Utley’s Cases

Jimmy Rollins has called Bobby Abreu his favorite teammate ever, and even acknowledged that he “cried like a baby” when the right fielder got traded to the New York Yankees in the summer of 2006.

The two have now shared a Hall of Fame ballot for two seasons, with Rollins receiving the 13th-highest percentage of the vote (12.9%) in 2023. That put him right behind Abreu, who garnered 15.4%. When asked about Rollins’ case, Abreu was very complimentary.

“Jimmy has such good numbers, and being the MVP of the National League,” Abreu said of his former teammate. “He’s one of those guys where the numbers are going to speak for themselves.”

Rollins said last year that the 2008 World Series Champions had “probably two” Hall of Famers, referring to himself and second baseman Chase Utley. In 2024, Utley will join Abreu and Rollins on the Hall of Fame ballot for the first time.

At the height of his powers, there’s little debate about whether Utley was a Hall of Fame-caliber player. Between 2005 and 2012, the only player who finished with a higher WAR than Utley’s 50.2 was Pujols. Utley finished above the likes of Miguel Cabrera, Alex Rodriguez, Joe Mauer and Adrian Beltre. His 49.3 WAR 7 is ninth in MLB history among second basemen, topping Hall of Famers Ryne Sandberg, Craig Biggio and Roberto Alomar. Utley never won a Gold Glove Award, but he probably should have given that he led all of qualified fielders with 131 defensive runs saved between 2005 and 2012. And we’ve been over how ridiculously unkind MVP voting was to Utley.

The biggest issue for Utley is that he was blocked by an excellent second baseman in Plácido Polanco, so he didn’t get to be an everyday player until his age-26 season. The back-half of his prime was ruined by knee injuries that once seemed career-threatening. Utley played through his age-39 season, so it’s not as though he didn’t have longevity. But he is shy of 2,000 career hits (he finished with 1,885) which may be disqualifying to some older voters.

At the same time, Utley made six All-Star Game appearances. He won the Silver Slugger Award on four occasions. The Phillies fell just short of repeating as World Champions in 2009, but it wasn’t Utley’s fault, as he tied a Fall Classic record with five home runs in a series that didn’t even go to a full seven games.

At a minimum, like Abreu and Rollins, Utley is going to have enough supporters to remain on the ballot for all 10 years, if he isn’t elected.

“Chase is one of those guys, he has pretty good numbers too for second base,” Abreu said. “He’s gonna be interesting on that. He did such a good job in the World Series. He’s got pretty good numbers too, to be in the Hall of Fame. Let’s see what’s gonna happen, but I’m happy for those two guys.”